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RNA Editing of Octopus Linked to Alien Life!

Are you convinced panspermia is a proven theory?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • No

    Votes: 21 95.5%

  • Total voters
    22

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
A group of 33 scientists and authors, who've authored the journal article "Cause of Cambrian Explosion - Terrestrial or Cosmic" published in the March issue of the scientific peer-reviewed journal "Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology, suggests octopuses are likely of extraterrestrial origin. Their conclusion that octopuses likely have an extraterrestrial origin is reached in part on the basis of the octopuses' particular ability to routinely edit their RNA sequences for adapting to their environment.


According to these 33 scientists and authors of the "Cause of Cambrian Explosion - Terrestrial or Cosmic",

"Evidence of the role of extraterrestrial viruses in affecting terrestrial evolution has recently been plausibly implied in the gene and transciptome sequencing of Cephalopods. The genome of the Octopus shows a staggering level of complexity with 33,000 protein-coding genes more than is present in Homo Sapiens.

Octopus belongs to the coleoid sub-class of molluscs (Cephalopods) that have an evolutionary history that stretches back over 500 million years, although Cephalopod phylogenetics is highly inconsistent and confusing.

Cephalopods are also very diverse, with the behaviourally complex coleoids, (Squid, Cuttlefish and Octopus) presumably arising under a pure terrestrial evolutionary model from the more primitive nautiloids. However the genetic divergence of Octopus from its ancestral coleoid sub-class is very great, akin to the extreme features seen across many genera and species noted in Eldridge-Gould punctuated equilibria patterns (below). Its large brain and sophisticated nervous system, camera-like eyes, flexible bodies, instantaneous camouflage via the ability to switch colour and shape are just a few of the striking features that appear suddenly on the evolutionary scene. The transformative genes leading from the consensus ancestral Nautilus (e.g. Nautilus pompilius) to the common Cuttlefish (Sepia officinalis) to Squid (Loligo vulgaris) to the common Octopus (Octopus vulgaris, Fig. 5) are not easily to be found in any pre-existing life form – it is plausible then to suggest they seem to be borrowed from a far distant “future” in terms of terrestrial evolution, or more realistically from the cosmos at large. Such an extraterrestrial origin as an explanation of emergence of course runs counter to the prevailing dominant paradigm.


Dibujo20180501-evolution-squid-to-octopus-compatible-genes-inserted-extraterrestrial-viruses-doi-10-1016-j-pbiomolbio-2018-03-004.png


Fig. 5. The evolution from squid to octopus is compatible with a suite of genes inserted by extraterrestrial viruses. An alternative extraterrestrial scenario discuused is that a population of cryopreserved octopus embryos soft-landed en mass from space 275 million years ago.

However consistent with this conclusion are the recent RNA editing data on the somatic RNA diversification mechanisms in the behaviourally sophisticated Cephalopods such as Octopus. These data demonstrate extensive evolutionary conserved adenosine to inosine (A-to-I) mRNA editing sites in almost every single protein-coding gene in the behaviorally complex coleoid Cephalopods (Octopus in particular), but not in nautilus.
This enormous qualitative difference in Cephalopod protein recoding A-to-I mRNA editing compared to nautilus and other invertebrate and vertebrate animals is striking. Thus in transcriptome-wide screens only 1–3% of Drosophila and human protein coding mRNAs harbour an A-to-I recoding site; and there only about 25 human mRNA messages which contain a conserved A-to-I recoding site across mammals. In Drosophila lineages there are about 65 conserved A-sites in protein coding genes and only a few identified in C. elegans which support the hypothesis that A-to-I RNA editing recoding is mostly either neutral, detrimental, or rarely adaptive,
Yet in Squid and particularly Octopus it is the norm, with almost every protein coding gene having an evolutionary conserved A-to-I mRNA editing site isoform, resulting in a nonsynonymous amino acid change.

This is a virtual qualitative jump in molecular genetic strategy in a supposed smooth and incremental evolutionary lineage - a type of sudden “great leap forward”. Unless all the new genes expressed in the squid/octopus lineages arose from simple mutations of existing genes in either the squid or in other organisms sharing the same habitat, there is surely no way by which this large qualitative transition in A-to-I mRNA editing can be explained by conventional neo-Darwinian processes, even if horizontal gene transfer is allowed. One plausible explanation, in our view, is that the new genes are likely new extraterrestrial imports to Earth - most plausibly as an already coherent group of functioning genes within (say) cryopreserved and matrix protected fertilized Octopus eggs.

Thus the possibility that cryopreserved Squid and/or Octopus eggs, arrived in icy bolides several hundred million years ago should not be discounted (below) as that would be a parsimonious cosmic explanation for the Octopus' sudden emergence on Earth ca. 270 million years ago. Indeed this principle applies to the sudden appearance in the fossil record of pretty well all major life forms, covered in the prescient concept of “punctuated equilibrium” by Eldridge and Gould advanced in the early 1970s; and see the conceptual cartoon of Fig. 6. Therefore, similar living features like this “as if the genes were derived from some type of pre-existence" apply to many other biological ensembles when closely examined. One little known yet cogent example is the response and resistance of the eye structures of the Drosophila fruit fly to normally lethally damaging UV radiation at 2537 Å, given that this wavelength does not penetrate the ozone layer and is thus not evident as a Darwinian selective factor at the surface of the Earth. Many of these “unearthly” properties of organisms can be plausibly explained if we admit the enlarged cosmic biosphere that is indicated by modern astronomical research – discoveries of exoplanets already discussed. The average distance between habitable planets in our galaxy now to be reckoned in light years – typically 5 light years Virion/gene exchanges thus appear to be inevitable over such short cosmic distances. The many features of biology that are not optimised to local conditions on the Earth may be readily understood in this wider perspective.

1-s2.0-S0079610718300798-gr6_lrg.jpg





Given that the complex sets of new genes in the Octopus may have not come solely from horizontal gene transfers or simple random mutations of existing genes or by simple duplicative expansions, it is then logical to surmise, given our current knowledge of the biology of comets and their debris, the new genes and their viral drivers most likely came from space. However, it is also clear that to accept such a proposition also requires that we diminish the role for highly localised Darwinian evolution on Earth which is likely to be strongly resisted by traditional biologists. That should not, of course, be of concern as the focus of our attention, for general evolutionary molecular processes, now shifts to the Cosmos and beyond our immediate solar system. This evidence provides for, and allows the study of, Cosmic Gene Pools – and these are capable of driving, and, dare we say, controlling and thus steering biological evolution here on Earth (via Darwinian and non-Darwinian adaptation mechanisms). The main effect of terrestrial Darwinian evolution is to act on these new cosmic-derived genes and fine-tune them by further somatic and germline Lamarckian gene feedback and haplotype-block shuffling mechanisms to fit the environment and also the recipient organism. Indeed it has been shown that viral footprints are evident in human brain tissue which seem to mark important steps that led up to the present human condition."
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Me too. Of course I'm only on my second cup of coffee.

I have read up on RNA though. Scientists believe that the odds that human RNA just came together at a certain point to create man is so astronomical that there had to be something beyond our comprehension involved in mans creation. Found that interesting.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Parenthetically, all that was needed to find the above links was to google "extraterrestrial octopus." Either the OP's author
  • didn't think (or know how to) do so, or
  • did so but chose not to share the result.
The first strikes me as more than a little sad and irresponsible, while the second would be simply dishonest.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Sounds like one for the experts to debate. Most of that went over my head lol

Most of the scientific community suspect abiogenesis is strictly the correct theory of how life began, many scientists were left dumb founded after a group of 33 scientists put forth this evidence in support of the panspermia theory. :)
 
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Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Parenthetically, all that was needed to find the above links was to google "extraterrestrial octopus." Either the OP's author
  • didn't think (or know how to) do so, or
  • did so but chose not to share the result.
The first strikes me as more than a little sad and irresponsible, while the second would be simply dishonest.

I'm not quite sure how google searching "extraterrestrial octopus" precisely arrives at the specific details of how/why these 33 scientists do theorize the extraterrestrial origin of octopuses.
 
I have read up on RNA though. Scientists believe that the odds that human RNA just came together at a certain point to create man is so astronomical that there had to be something beyond our comprehension involved in mans creation. Found that interesting.

But looking at the other side of the coin, the world for half a billion years carried out countless chemical experiments. Many took place within a few microns of space and in a few minutes of time. So how many of these experiments took place over this half billion years somewhere on earth is .......... well astronomical.

Whenever something complex and not instantly explainable turns up certain groups of people look for obscure answers. Experience tells us that the simple answer is in the long run, in the vast majority of cases, proven right.

Of course this could be the exception, but I'm not holding my breath:rolleyes:

I'm also suspicious that this looks like milking an opportunity. "life may have been seeded here on Earth by life-bearing comets as soon as conditions on Earth allowed it to flourish " as stated by some of the 33 seems reasonable and worthy of exploration - certainly if we ever find life on a comet! However stretching that to "octopuses are likely of extraterrestrial origin" for me is a step too far.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Me too. Of course I'm only on my second cup of coffee.

I have read up on RNA though. Scientists believe that the odds that human RNA just came together at a certain point to create man is so astronomical that there had to be something beyond our comprehension involved in mans creation. Found that interesting.

Another thought of course is that they dont "just"
come together. What exactly that "not-just" consists
of is something to work on. Or of course, "just"
say "goddidit".
 

Audie

Veteran Member
But looking at the other side of the coin, the world for half a billion years carried out countless chemical experiments. Many took place within a few microns of space and in a few minutes of time. So how many of these experiments took place over this half billion years somewhere on earth is .......... well astronomical.

Whenever something complex and not instantly explainable turns up certain groups of people look for obscure answers. Experience tells us that the simple answer is in the long run, in the vast majority of cases, proven right.

Of course this could be the exception, but I'm not holding my breath:rolleyes:

I'm also suspicious that this looks like milking an opportunity. "life may have been seeded here on Earth by life-bearing comets as soon as conditions on Earth allowed it to flourish " as stated by some of the 33 seems reasonable and worthy of exploration - certainly if we ever find life on a comet! However stretching that to "octopuses are likely of extraterrestrial origin" for me is a step too far.

Dont forget that there's about 330,000,000 cubic miles of
water to work in.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Proof! Phatoooey! Splat!

The trip wire of the booby trap is 'plausible,' and brings to serious question making any claims of 'proof,' which science does not prove things. Legitimate Research papers DO NOT make such 'plausible' claims based on cut and paste 'sources' without a sound basis in Genetic science.

RNA insertion from bacteria and viruses is well known and can explain other 'sources, and the known ability of these organisms to edit there own DNA.'

The rest of the story . . .

From: An Insane Paper Tests The Limits of Science by Claiming Octopuses Came From Space

An Insane Paper Tests The Limits of Science by Claiming Octopuses Came From Space
Don't laugh. It's serious.


MIKE MCRAE
16 MAY 2018
A summary of decades of research on a rather 'out-there' idea involving viruses from space has recently been published, and it's raising questions on just how scientific we can be when it comes to speculating on the history of life on Earth.


It's easy to throw around words like crackpot, rogue, and maverick in describing the scientific fringe, but every now and then a paper like this comes along, leaving us blinking owlishly, unsure of where to even begin.

A total of 33 names are listed as authors on this review, which was published by Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology. The journal is peer reviewed and fairly well cited. So it's not exactly small, or a niche pay-for-publish source.

Science writer Stephen Fleischfresser goes into depth on the background of two of the better known scientists involved: Edward Steele and Chandra Wickramasinghe. It's well worth a read.

For a tl;dr version, Steele is an immunologist who already has a fringe reputation for his views on evolution that relies on acquiring gene changes determined by the influence of the environment rather than random mutations, in what he calls meta-Lamarckism.

Wickramasinghe, on the other hand, has had a somewhat less controversial career, recognised for empirically confirming Sir Fred Hoyle's hypothesis describing the production of complex carbon molecules on interstellar dust.


Wickramasinghe and Hoyle also happened to be responsible for another space biology thesis. Only this one is based on more than just the origins of organic chemistry.

The Hoyle Wickramasinghe (H-W) thesis of Cometary (Cosmic) Biology makes the rather simple claim that the direction of evolution has been significantly affected by biochemistry that didn't start on our planet.

In Wickramasinghe's own words, "Comets are the carriers and distributors of life in the cosmos and life on Earth arose and developed as a result of cometary inputs."

Those inputs, Wickramasinghe argues, aren't limited to a generous sprinkling of space-baked amino acids, either.

Rather, they include viruses that insert themselves into organisms, pushing their evolution into whole new directions.

The report, titled "Cause of Cambrian Explosion – Terrestrial or Cosmic?", pulls on existing research to conclude that a rain of extra-terrestrial retroviruses played a key role in the diversification of life in our oceans roughly half a billion years ago.

"Thus retroviruses and other viruses hypothesised to be liberated in cometary debris trails both can potentially add new DNA sequences to terrestrial genomes and drive further mutagenic change within somatic and germline genomes," the authors write.


Let that sink in for a moment. And take a deep breath before continuing, because that was the tame part.

It was during this period that a group of molluscs known as cephalopods first stretched out their tentacles from beneath their shells, branching into a stunning array of sizes and shapes in what seemed like a remarkably short time frame.

The genetics of these organisms, which today include octopuses, squid, and cuttlefish, are as weird as the animals themselves, due in part to their ability to their ability to edit their DNA on the fly.

College level Genetics and paleontology level courses have long taught this, and it is nothing new.

The authors of the paper make the rather audacious claim that these genetic oddities might be a sign of life from space.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Most of the scientific community suspect abiogenesis is strictly the correct theory of how life began, many scientists were left dumb founded after a group of 33 scientists put forth this evidence in support of the panspermia theory. :)

Ah . . . no dumb founded scientists with a legitimate background in Genetics and Paleontology. I have enough undergraduate and graduate courses in Genetics to know better as my previous post demonstrates.

There is a legitimate 'panspermia' application of the evidence that some amino acids that contribute to the abiogenesis of life did arrive from meteorites within our own solar system.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
... suggests octopuses are likely of extraterrestrial origin... has recently been plausibly implied... plausibly as an already coherent group of functioning genes within (say) cryopreserved and matrix protected fertilized Octopus eggs.
I understand why you use such noncommittal language when communicating these types of things. It makes sense to do so, and is one of the parts of this post that is respectable. Hopefully you understand also why you must use such subtleties when proposing these ideas - you seem to in the majority of the post, at least, but what troubles me is the poll at the start - "Are you convinced panspermia is a proven theory?" I don't think anything you have posted, in any way supports panspermia as a "proven theory."

  • ...Cephalopod phylogenetics is highly inconsistent and confusing
  • ...Cephalopods are also very diverse
  • ...striking features appear suddenly on the evolutionary scene
[therefore] An alternative extraterrestrial scenario discuused(sic) is that a population of cryopreserved octopus embryos soft-landed en mass from space 275 million years ago.
I colored the premises in blue, and then the (noncommittal) conclusion in purple. Compare the above with the following:
  • ...That so many complex life-forms can come about via natural processes and evolution alone is confusing
  • ...The life on Earth is also very diverse
  • ...Many complex features could not have just appeared suddenly, and we don't have fossil evidence marking all in-between stages
...[therefore] An alternative creation scenario discussed is that God created the initial populations of life-forms en masse from His seat in heaven 6,000 years ago.

I don't see much difference, nor any more conclusive evidence than creationists have for their ideas for the specific (and unknowable without better evidence) conclusion drawn.
 
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Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
All I have to add to this is from SNOPES

Does Octopus DNA Come from Space?
"Researchers didn't discover that octopus DNA is "alien," or that it originated anywhere but on Earth, although a few have suggested the possibility."

Beyond that, I got nothing, take it for what it is worth
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Jeez, folks. I just said I read it and it was interesting.
Well, it is interesting. But it's speculation, pure and simple, and rather a stretch...

The basic problem with any panspermia proposal is (aside from a lack of any direct evidence at this time) is that all it does is push the question of the origin of life, or the genes in question in this article, back to someplace other than earth and sometime before about 4.1 billion years ago. And then it becomes a 'just so' story.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Panspermia has a few obstacles to overcome. We already know that species can change, so odd DNA is not evidence of aliens. Secondly there has been plenty of time. Third there is a bias in presuming biogenesis will happen elsewhere.
 
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