Jesus is all that really matters

Ellen Brown said:

Sorry, I don't know anything at all about the "Kingdom Gospel" group, and in my research I tend to take the KJV fairly literally. I've encountered very strange religious teaching in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, so I'll have to read more about your interpretations when I get the time. I'm very wary of folk that put their own spin on otherwise simple scripture.

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I have compared
what Saul of Tarsus said
to what Jesus of Nazareth says
... and found that they don't match.

The Kingdom Gospel is what Jesus taught, and what Jesus told his 11 Disciples to teach, both before and after His resurrection. We who believe in Jesus because of the word of the 11 Disciples, use Jesus as the only yardstick against which all things are measured... and by which we will all be judged.

I believe Jesus. Do you?

Matthew 12:48 "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

OtherSheep said:

I have compared
what Saul of Tarsus said
to what Jesus of Nazareth says
... and found that they don't match.

The Kingdom Gospel is what Jesus taught, and what Jesus told his 11 Disciples to teach, both before and after His resurrection. We who believe in Jesus because of the word of the 11 Disciples, use Jesus as the only yardstick against which all things are measured... and by which we will all be judged.

I believe Jesus. Do you?

Matthew 12:48 "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

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Really, I have been down the road on religions, so tend to view anything new to me with a jaundiced eye. "There is nothing new under the Sun". My first serious experience with religions, in my late 20's, in 1974, was quite odd. I'd had NO religious training and somehow survived a Hell while growing up. It all left me hyper angry, but by some mercy, trouble seemed to avoid me.

So, viewing everyone else as a potential abuser, it was clear that no one else's views on religion would not be trustworthy. Yet, "The knowledge of God is written on our hearts". The desire to know God drove me to read the Bible, and early on it was clear to me that choosing one version and making it my own was prudent. Using a guide book, very early on, I saw that out of about 6 versions I had, they all disagreed on certain issues. Eventually choosing the KJV to study from, I read it cover to cover in about two weeks. In reading the OT, I wondered why God did not destroy everything and start over several times. I did not understand people saying that God was vengeful. To me, he was merciful, intelligent and loving.

When I read the four Gospels, it felt like I'd had a window into the heart of Jesus. From Acts on, the scripture was at times disillusioning, and I came close to stopping. It felt like Paul had changed and perverted everything. The book of Revelation was a very interesting experience and seemed to draw heavily on Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other OT writings. I spent until 2003 going to conservative Christian Churches where often there was doubt about the scriptural interpretations of others. After that, disillusioned, I've studied Islam and Judaism trying to find something I could depend on.

These days it seems that being an Abrahamic Religions researcher makes most sense. All other beliefs seem to have suffered the effects of time decay. I really do hope that God helps us soon.

Do I believe Jesus? I do. Where is there a work that we know correctly reflects his mind?

74x12 said:

He's all our sufficiency,
All our Grace
All our Power
All our Strength
All our Righteousness
All our Peace
All our Love
All our Light

No wonder we can win this fight called life. Excuse me, I'm very euphoric because the love of God. If any Christians find it hard to pray then it may be a demon putting a mental block in your mind to keep you from blessing that day. Rebuke it in Jesus name and ask God to feel you with His love for others. Demons may also try to make difficult rules to follow when you pray; to discourage you. Just start praying. No difficult rules for yourself. No discouragement. No feelings of inadequacy because Jesus is all our sufficiency.

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Sounds like your on a high high with the Christian religion.
I use to get a real high off the Pentecostal church singing praising and worship, dancing, speaking in tongues. I loved the music still like some of it.

I had a bad fall because I am bipolar and got a high high off of Christianity along time then went to a deep dark despair after I got out of church. I was suicidal.

I had to get counseling and am on meds.

However I get a high from time to time still from meditation and not having any bad fall outs from it. So I guess its ok to get high on Jesus, but be careful you don't get on a low low from mental illness.

Well heck, this is a horrble world in some ways, its rough with all the stuff going on and I guess some people like me need an escape.

Ellen Brown said:

When I read the four Gospels, it felt like I'd had a window into the heart of Jesus. From Acts on, the scripture was at times disillusioning, and I came close to stopping. It felt like Paul had changed and perverted everything. The book of Revelation was a very interesting experience and seemed to draw heavily on Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other OT writings. I spent until 2003 going to conservative Christian Churches where often there was doubt about the scriptural interpretations of others. After that, disillusioned, I've studied Islam and Judaism trying to find something I could depend on.

These days it seems that being an Abrahamic Religions researcher makes most sense. All other beliefs seem to have suffered the effects of time decay. I really do hope that God helps us soon.

Do I believe Jesus? I do. Where is there a work that we know correctly reflects his mind?

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Saul of Tarsus is his own one-&-only witness... a fact which should raise our collective hackles. We the sheeple have decided to let strangers tell us which books belong in the Bible... and even more strange unbelievers on pulpits tell us what the Bible means.

John 17:20-21 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent Me."

Jesus tells us that we will believe because of the words of His 11... that means Matthew and John and the Revelation come directly from Jesus. We are not all one, because we are not all believing in Jesus through their word... they being the 11 Disciples... we as a fellowship are divided because of Saul and his phony gospel, and his deep things and mysteries from Zoroaster and Mithras.

I kicked Saul to the curb a while back and haven't missed him at all. Having spent decades being fed nothing besides his strange perversion, in church buildings, I thought it'd be a bit harder than that. Now, without the strange voice of a stranger muddying the works, I am learning what I should have known all along.

Jesus, by Himself, makes sense. HIs word is what I use to decide what else is true.

Mindmaster said:

I find it strange that you equate the obey as the sign of love. Sin is a relative concept, you cannot sin if you don't believe in sin. Morality and ethics are only as useful as they aid the fundamental needs of survival and need modification the moment they start moving against that end...........

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If obey is Not a sign of love, then why would a loving child obey a loving parent except out of love.
Sure, we don't equate just obeying a red stop light as a sign of love, but as obeying the motor-vehicle code.
No one equates breaking that motor-vehicle code as sinning, but rather as breaking the law.

Sure, I think a person can sin even if they don't believe in sin. Disbelief does Not mean sin does Not exist.
We all do things either: willfully or not, premeditated or not, on purpose or not.
That is because, unless damaged, we all come equipped with an in-born conscience ( compass ).
That is why most people everywhere produce a law against murder and stealing, etc.
Sure, that is called breaking the Law, but in Scripture that breaking of the law is called sinning.

As far as modification, well, I would say Jesus did modify the Golden Rule because at John 13:34-35 Jesus gives us a 'new' commandment to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor ' more ' than self.

OtherSheep said:

The Kingdom Gospel is what Jesus taught, and what Jesus told his 11 Disciples to teach, both before and after His resurrection. We who believe in Jesus because of the word of the 11 Disciples, use Jesus as the only yardstick against which all things are measured... and by which we will all be judged.

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I would like to take the liberty to add to the ^ above ^ because I find that Judas was replaced by Mathias - Acts of the Apostles 1:26. So, to me that makes Mathias to become the 12th apostle after God resurrected Jesus.
So, the now 12 plus (?) would take the Kingdom Gospel of Daniel 2:44 starting to take it all over the world as per Jesus' instructions at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8. I find we are now at the ' final phase ' of the Kingdom Gospel work.

I find the ' yardstick ' Jesus will use at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 is how the figurative humble sheep and the haughty goats treat Jesus' spiritual brothers (verse 40) who are still found on Earth at this coming time frame before Jesus begins his millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
The ' sheep ' receive a favorable judgement (Matthew 25:37), whereas the ' goats ' receive an adverse judgement.

URAVIP2ME said:

I would like to take the liberty to add to the ^ above ^ because I find that Judas was replaced by Mathias - Acts of the Apostles 1:26. So, to me that makes Mathias to become the 12th apostle after God resurrected Jesus.
So, the now 12 plus (?) would take the Kingdom Gospel of Daniel 2:44 starting to take it all over the world as per Jesus' instructions at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8. I find we are now at the ' final phase ' of the Kingdom Gospel work.

I find the ' yardstick ' Jesus will use at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 is how the figurative humble sheep and the haughty goats treat Jesus' spiritual brothers (verse 40) who are still found on Earth at this coming time frame before Jesus begins his millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
The ' sheep ' receive a favorable judgement (Matthew 25:37), whereas the ' goats ' receive an adverse judgement.

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Agreed. (except for the "plus")

Acts 1:21-23 "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that He was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection. ... 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles."

12 foundations = 12 apostles.

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." -- Revelation 21:14

"Now the names of the twelve apostles are these;
The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother;
James of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Philip, and Bartholomew;
Thomas, and Matthew the publican;
James of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Simon the Canaanite..." and "Matthias".
-- Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:26

OtherSheep said:

Agreed. (except for the "plus")

Acts 1:21-23 "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that He was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection. ... 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles."

12 foundations = 12 apostles.

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." -- Revelation 21:14

"Now the names of the twelve apostles are these;
The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother;
James of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Philip, and Bartholomew;
Thomas, and Matthew the publican;
James of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Simon the Canaanite..." and "Matthias".
-- Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:26

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No Paul then? I agree. I actually fear that Paul took Christianity off the rails. He wrote lots of the NT, and I don't think that was supposed to happen.

Ellen Brown said:

No Paul then? I agree. I actually fear that Paul took Christianity off the rails. He wrote lots of the NT, and I don't think that was supposed to happen.

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No Saul of Tarsus... he doesn't even fit the criteria that Acts used.
I'm not happy with the title christian, either.

OtherSheep said:

No Saul of Tarsus... he doesn't even fit the criteria that Acts used.
I'm not comfortable with that... title, either.

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I don't want to get too nutty about this. Paul's existence is well embedded in Christian religions. I didn't think that he making me hiss and spit was valid. That would wipe out much/most of the NT. I am comfortable with the 4 Gospels.

Ellen Brown said:

I don't want to get too nutty about this. Paul's existence is well embedded in Christian religions. I didn't think that he making me hiss and spit was valid. That would wipe out much/most of the NT. I am comfortable with the 4 Gospels.

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The Young's Literal Translation has 603 PDF pages.
Genesis starts on page 9, and ends in page 451.

Matthew starts on page 455, and has 28 chapters...

MATTHEW 455 28
MARK 472 16
LUKE 483 24
JOHN 502 21
ACTS 516 28
ROMANS 534 16
1 CORINTHIANS 541 16
2 CORINTHIANS 548 13
GALATIANS 553 6
EPHESIANS 556 6
PHILIPPIANS 559 4
COLOSSIANS 561 4
1 THESSALONIANS 563 5
2 THESSALONIANS 565 3
1 TIMOTHY 566 6
2 TIMOTHY 568 4
TITUS 570 3
PHILEMON 571 1
HEBREWS 572 13
JAMES 578 5
1 PETER 580 5
2 PETER 582 3
1 JOHN 584 5
2 JOHN 586 1
3 JOHN 587 1
JUDE 588 1
REVELATION 589 22
ending on page 597.

___________________________________
… here's my point.

Mark has 11 pages,
Luke has 37 pages total,
Saul of Tarsus has 38 pages total,
Barnabus (Hebrews) has 6 pages.

The without-law people have virtually lost all but these 92 pages...
minus those pages within Mark and Luke where Jesus is accurately hearsayed.

___________________________________

But all of the works-oriented books of the Bible belong to those of us who are trying our very best to see the nature of the God we believe, where text within context is crucial. And there is scarcely a page of the First Testament (the so-called Old) which isn't all about faith perfected by works.

James 2:18 "But say may some one, Thou hast faith, and I have works, shew me thy faith out of thy works, and I will shew thee out of my works my faith: 19 thou—thou dost believe that God is one; thou dost well, and the demons believe, and they shudder! 20 And dost thou wish to know, O vain man, that the faith apart from the works is dead? 21 Abraham our father—was not he declared righteous out of works, having brought up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 dost thou see that the faith was working with his works, and out of the works the faith was perfected? 23 and fulfilled was the Writing that is saying, `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him—to righteousness;` and, `Friend of God` he was called. 24 Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only; 25 and in like manner also Rahab the harlot—was she not out of works declared righteous, having received the messengers, and by another way having sent forth? 26 for as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also the faith apart from the works is dead."(YLT)

OtherSheep said:

The Young's Literal Translation has 603 PDF pages.
Genesis starts on page 9, and ends in page 451.

Matthew starts on page 455, and has 28 chapters...

MATTHEW 455 28
MARK 472 16
LUKE 483 24
JOHN 502 21
ACTS 516 28
ROMANS 534 16
1 CORINTHIANS 541 16
2 CORINTHIANS 548 13
GALATIANS 553 6
EPHESIANS 556 6
PHILIPPIANS 559 4
COLOSSIANS 561 4
1 THESSALONIANS 563 5
2 THESSALONIANS 565 3
1 TIMOTHY 566 6
2 TIMOTHY 568 4
TITUS 570 3
PHILEMON 571 1
HEBREWS 572 13
JAMES 578 5
1 PETER 580 5
2 PETER 582 3
1 JOHN 584 5
2 JOHN 586 1
3 JOHN 587 1
JUDE 588 1
REVELATION 589 22
ending on page 597.

___________________________________
… here's my point.

Mark has 11 pages,
Luke has 37 pages total,
Saul of Tarsus has 38 pages total,
Barnabus (Hebrews) has 6 pages.

The without-law people have virtually lost all but these 92 pages...
minus those pages within Mark and Luke where Jesus is accurately hearsayed.

___________________________________

But all of the works-oriented books of the Bible belong to those of us who are trying our very best to see the nature of the God we believe, where text within context is crucial. And there is scarcely a page of the First Testament (the so-called Old) which isn't all about faith perfected by works.

James 2:18 "But say may some one, Thou hast faith, and I have works, shew me thy faith out of thy works, and I will shew thee out of my works my faith: 19 thou—thou dost believe that God is one; thou dost well, and the demons believe, and they shudder! 20 And dost thou wish to know, O vain man, that the faith apart from the works is dead? 21 Abraham our father—was not he declared righteous out of works, having brought up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 dost thou see that the faith was working with his works, and out of the works the faith was perfected? 23 and fulfilled was the Writing that is saying, `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him—to righteousness;` and, `Friend of God` he was called. 24 Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only; 25 and in like manner also Rahab the harlot—was she not out of works declared righteous, having received the messengers, and by another way having sent forth? 26 for as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also the faith apart from the works is dead."(YLT)

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Where do you come up with “38” for Paul?

OtherSheep said:

Agreed. (except for the "plus")

Acts 1:21-23 "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that He was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection. ... 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles."
12 foundations = 12 apostles.
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." -- Revelation 21:14
"Now the names of the twelve apostles are these;
The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother;
James of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Philip, and Bartholomew;
Thomas, and Matthew the publican;
James of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Simon the Canaanite..." and "Matthias".
-- Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:26

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I agree, 12 foundation stones = 12 apostles.
Sorry I was Not clear about the 'plus'.
I wanted to convey that besides the 12 there were others doing the same spiritual work as found at Acts of the Apostles 1:15 B (120 )

OtherSheep said:

No Saul of Tarsus... he doesn't even fit the criteria that Acts used.

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I find Paul ( Saul of Tarsus ) to be humble in the 15th chapter of Acts.
There was a split issue - Acts of the Apostles 14:26 to 15:2.
Since Paul was appointed to take the lead in preaching to the gentile people of the nations he could have thought of himself as being an expert in dealing with non-Jews enough to be qualified to resolve that problem.
Rather, with humility and modesty Paul went along with the arrangements made by the brothers in Jerusalem.
Paul co-operated with them as per Acts of the Apostles 15:22-31.
Thus, Paul took the lead in showing respectful honor to his fellow believers - Romans 12:10; 1 Corinthians 15:9-11.
So, to me Paul fits the criteria found in Acts.

sojourner said:

Where do you come up with “38” for Paul?

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If you don't like the number, feel free to fix it... I don't really care.

The point is that the without-law people have a very skinny bible.
The person I was speaking to was worried about the loss of a few pages.
When in reality, Paulinists have lost baby, bathwater, tub, and plumbing.

OtherSheep said:

If you don't like the number, feel free to fix it... I don't really care.

The point is that the without-law people have a very skinny bible.
The person I was speaking to was worried about the loss of a few pages.
When in reality, Paulinists have lost baby, bathwater, tub, and plumbing.

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If you’re going to use the Bible as a proof of your argument, you’d better care — and you’d better get it right! There is no such thing as a “Paulist,” which the Bible makes clear.

URAVIP2ME said:

I find Paul ( Saul of Tarsus ) to be humble in the 15th chapter of Acts.
There was a split issue - Acts of the Apostles 14:26 to 15:2.
Since Paul was appointed to take the lead in preaching to the gentile people of the nations he could have thought of himself as being an expert in dealing with non-Jews enough to be qualified to resolve that problem.
Rather, with humility and modesty Paul went along with the arrangements made by the brothers in Jerusalem.
Paul co-operated with them as per Acts of the Apostles 15:22-31.
Thus, Paul took the lead in showing respectful honor to his fellow believers - Romans 12:10; 1 Corinthians 15:9-11.
So, to me Paul fits the criteria found in Acts.

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Humble? Modest? Seriously? He never stops putting down the men Jesus provably chose to learn from Jesus for the entire time that Jesus walked the earth. Which is in fact, the exact criteria that Acts 1 used to choose Matthias to replace Judas. If Saul was ever anywhere around Jesus when Jesus was teaching, he was hanging out with his brother Pharisees... then going off to plan Jesus' death. If all we had was the record of Acts, we would have a very different person than what shows up as a haughty braggert in Saul's letters.

And how many of those who "seemed to be something", which Saul slaps in the face with this verse

2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:

... do we see calling themselves I, Peter or I, John or I, James ad nauseam?
How many of them spend any portion of writings assuring people that they're not liars? as though that was the common complaint against him.
How many of them brag about having caught people by guile? when Jesus openly commends the man without guile.
How many of the real 12 bragged about their chains like they were the ghost of Christmas past?
Or strutted like roosters because they got beat up in the synagogues for teaching heresy against the Law.

What gave him the right to go to the synagogues anyway, as a self-proclaimed "sent to the gentiles"? And what ever happened to the trial where Saul brought an uncircumcised gentile into the part of the temple they were not allowed to go... didn't that guy defile the temple, according to Ezekiel?... and isn't that the reason the temple fell?

It's hardly any wonder that people think there were multitudes of guys named Paul, back in the day. If all of that came from one man, he'd be more famous than Sybil.

What is a constant source of wonder to me is that people continue to think the sun ever rose and set on that man who single-handedly plowed-under the Kingdom Gospel, following the torture and murder of the followers of Jesus.

And what was Saul doing 3 years in Arabia, when Mt. Sinai was never there? And why does he try to say that the Law was given to Hagar and Ishmael, with his stupid allegory? The closer you look at old Saul, the more questions.
________________________
The "Magi from Anatolia" (wise men from the east) were Zoroastrians, and that's where Saul came from. (the word translated as East is literally spelled Anatolia in the Greek).

sojourner said:

If you’re going to use the Bible as a proof of your argument, you’d better care — and you’d better get it right! There is no such thing as a “Paulist,” which the Bible makes clear.

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Read it again... I said Paulinist. Do the research, please. Thanx in advance.

URAVIP2ME said:

I agree, 12 foundation stones = 12 apostles.
Sorry I was Not clear about the 'plus'.
I wanted to convey that besides the 12 there were others doing the same spiritual work as found at Acts of the Apostles 1:15 B (120 )

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I don't know anything about that spiritual work stuff. But yeah, there were always many more than the 12, at the table of the followers. I'm seeing more lights coming on all the time, on the web, too. It would be good to know that this Kingdom Gospel is finally getting preached as a witness to the world.

OtherSheep said:

Read it again... I said Paulinist. Do the research, please. Thanx in advance.

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Splitting hairs doesn’t advance your argument. There’s still no such thing. Not according to the Bible, and not according to church history.