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Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?


  • Total voters
    57

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Hi @j1i ,
Thank you for dropping by. The OP asks the question is Muhammad a Messenger of God. I believe He is and have no doubt that as a Muslim you belive that to be true. So why do you think Muhammad is a Messenger of God? Are there any other historic religious leaders such as Moses or Christ that you would consider as Messengers of God as well?
Kind regards
Adrian

Hello Adrian

Allow me to share my input as a mulsim.

Muhammad peace be upon him is a Messenger of God because he came with the message of worshiping Allah alone and not associating with him any partners. That was his purpose in life.

It wasn't like he chose it himself and that is it, but he received revelation from God.

53:2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,
53:3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
53:4 It is not but a revelation revealed,

By God's will, the message was at the start secretive, meaning that Muhammad peace be upon him would share the message with a close circle of friends. For those who accepted, they used to meet up and discuss the message and understand more and more.

After some time, Allah ordered Muhammad peace be upon him to share the message publicly, so he did start with the area he lived in. After that, he shared the message outside Mecca.

What I want to say is that the message was meant to be shared with the whole world and not only in a particular area.

21:107 And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

A message which started with one man is now followed by approx 2 billion people.

For all that was mentioned (and much more), we believe that he is a messenger of God.

Let me add that according to scholars, there is a difference between a prophet and a messenger. Majority of scholars say that the difference between a prophet and a messenger is that the first is not ordered by God to convey the message while the latter is. Hence, every messenger is a prophet, but not every prophet is a messenger. Other scholars say that in addition to sharing the message, messengers come with new laws and shariah (of course revealed from God) whereas prophets don't add to the religion ( if we may call it) and they follow the teachings of the previous messenger.

According to some hadith, there are 120000 prophets in islam who passed through. Others say that this number is inaccurate but what they do agree on is that there are much more prophets than the 25 who were mentioned in the Quraan ( Jonah, Soliman, Moses, Jesus, Noah ...... peace be upon them.)



Thank you, Friend, for the kind words
God sent Muhammad to help man to live in dignity far from slavery and proxies to other than God
God Almighty created man free to worship God without the need to worship creatures with God

Some creatures, such as humans and jinns (satans) try indirectly to be added to the Creator
They provide generous services and great assistance in an attractive manner and exploit the weakness and need of man
But they ask you to witness that they are all have right to be worshiped with GOD through a Sacrifice or writing magical symbols that you believe that they are a Gods with God
Some creatures like demons want to make man live in misguidance
Example: He says that these stones have the power to bring you health
Or that this man was a God because he has the honor of God as the prophets like Ezra and Jesus

The magic works in which insult to God in which the words curse God
Those who do magic do not understand the meaning of secrets in phrases, symbols and writings such as shaman and kabala and some practices practiced by people in the world indirectly
Such as talisman and amulets
Many people deviated from the teachings of their prophets and began to worship other than God
In Christianity
If a Christian is guilty of sin, he can receive forgiveness of sins by going to the church and asking The priest to forgive sins
Muhammad says that you can seek forgiveness without recourse to any creature
Islam is to live free and communicate directly with God
Satan has excelled in how to deceive humans and the jinns
And teach them creative ways to worship creatures with God
With false logic and suspect philosophy
And because of the huge proliferation of people who sharing creatures in worships with god
HE Send Mohammed
God has promised to punish anyone who worshiped other than God
read this verse
God will not forgive that partners be associated with Him; but will forgive anything less than that, to whomever He wills. Anyone who ascribes partners to God has strayed into far error.
God gave the opportunity to repent before death
read this verse and look how god is The most merciful and compassionate
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves: do not despair of God's mercy, for God forgives all sins. He is indeed the Forgiver, the Clement."
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member

Hello Adrian

Allow me to share my input as a mulsim.

Muhammad peace be upon him is a Messenger of God because he came with the message of worshiping Allah alone and not associating with him any partners. That was his purpose in life.

It wasn't like he chose it himself and that is it, but he received revelation from God.

53:2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,
53:3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
53:4 It is not but a revelation revealed,

By God's will, the message was at the start secretive, meaning that Muhammad peace be upon him would share the message with a close circle of friends. For those who accepted, they used to meet up and discuss the message and understand more and more.

After some time, Allah ordered Muhammad peace be upon him to share the message publicly, so he did start with the area he lived in. After that, he shared the message outside Mecca.

What I want to say is that the message was meant to be shared with the whole world and not only in a particular area.

21:107 And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

A message which started with one man is now followed by approx 2 billion people.

For all that was mentioned (and much more), we believe that he is a messenger of God.

Let me add that according to scholars, there is a difference between a prophet and a messenger. Majority of scholars say that the difference between a prophet and a messenger is that the first is not ordered by God to convey the message while the latter is. Hence, every messenger is a prophet, but not every prophet is a messenger. Other scholars say that in addition to sharing the message, messengers come with new laws and shariah (of course revealed from God) whereas prophets don't add to the religion ( if we may call it) and they follow the teachings of the previous messenger.

According to some hadith, there are 120000 prophets in islam who passed through. Others say that this number is inaccurate but what they do agree on is that there are much more prophets than the 25 who were mentioned in the Quraan ( Jonah, Soliman, Moses, Jesus, Noah ...... peace be upon them.)


Thank you Sabour,
Excellent to have some Muslim input into this thread. Its only taken one month to bring you guys out.:) Thank you for that.
Now I have your attention I'm going to ask you questions about your faith. I hope you're OK with that and any time my questions are hard to understand just loet me know.

So Muhammad is a Messenger of God, not just for the peoples of the Middle East but for the whole world. With reference to the Holy Qur'an or Hadiths what makes Muhammad special or different from other Messengers?

What of the Gospel of Christ and the Holy book of the Christians and Jews? Is Muhammad mentioned?

Is there anything special about Jesus in the Quran or Hadiths that would distinguish Him from any other Messenger or Prophet?

Perhaps tough questions. Thanks again. :)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank you, Friend, for the kind words
God sent Muhammad to help man to live in dignity far from slavery and proxies to other than God
God Almighty created man free to worship God without the need to worship creatures with God

Some creatures, such as humans and jinns (satans) try indirectly to be added to the Creator
They provide generous services and great assistance in an attractive manner and exploit the weakness and need of man
But they ask you to witness that they are all have right to be worshiped with GOD through a Sacrifice or writing magical symbols that you believe that they are a Gods with God
Some creatures like demons want to make man live in misguidance
Example: He says that these stones have the power to bring you health
Or that this man was a God because he has the honor of God as the prophets like Ezra and Jesus

The magic works in which insult to God in which the words curse God
Those who do magic do not understand the meaning of secrets in phrases, symbols and writings such as shaman and kabala and some practices practiced by people in the world indirectly
Such as talisman and amulets
Many people deviated from the teachings of their prophets and began to worship other than God
In Christianity
If a Christian is guilty of sin, he can receive forgiveness of sins by going to the church and asking The priest to forgive sins
Muhammad says that you can seek forgiveness without recourse to any creature
Islam is to live free and communicate directly with God
Satan has excelled in how to deceive humans and the jinns
And teach them creative ways to worship creatures with God
With false logic and suspect philosophy
And because of the huge proliferation of people who sharing creatures in worships with god
HE Send Mohammed
God has promised to punish anyone who worshiped other than God
read this verse
God will not forgive that partners be associated with Him; but will forgive anything less than that, to whomever He wills. Anyone who ascribes partners to God has strayed into far error.
God gave the opportunity to repent before death
read this verse and look how god is The most merciful and compassionate
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves: do not despair of God's mercy, for God forgives all sins. He is indeed the Forgiver, the Clement."

Great to have responses from the Muslim brothers. Thank you.

Speaking of deceptions, there is clear division in Islam between the Sunnis and Shi'ites. Does that division have anything to do with the deception you mention. Of the two traditions, which is right or wrong and why?
Of course I come through the Christian traditions to the Baha'i Faith so Muhammad as Messenger of God and the Holy Qur'an as the authentic repository of the Word of God is central to my belief.
Hope you are good with questions.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Great to have responses from the Muslim brothers. Thank you.

Speaking of deceptions, there is clear division in Islam between the Sunnis and Shi'ites. Does that division have anything to do with the deception you mention. Of the two traditions, which is right or wrong and why?
Of course I come through the Christian traditions to the Baha'i Faith so Muhammad as Messenger of God and the Holy Qur'an as the authentic repository of the Word of God is central to my belief.
Hope you are good with questions.

Satan's desperation is to make Muslims worship him
But he excelled in planting differences and discord among Muslims

Baha'is are not Muslims
They think they are Muslims

We do not make things belong to us (like Islam)
We belong to Islam
This is what you must have

The Shiites are wrong because they call on Hussein and Ali for mercy
They should have asked for mercy from God
They also have an exotic ritual that came from the teachings of another religion
I do not mean all Shiites but some Shiites

And that the Day of Judgment will be punished severely punished those who betrayed the message of God and those who contributed and helped to betray him
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
You are welcome anytime my friend. Am an old member on this forums but it has been really a long time since I logged in. I have my periods when am active and some periods when am not. Now let me tell you English is not my native language so any time you sense from my answer that I didn't answer you please let me know.

With reference to the Holy Qur'an or Hadiths what makes Muhammad special or different from other Messengers?

Let me start by defining Islam. There is a big misconception even among muslims regarding the starting time of islam. Many tend to think that islam began with Muhammad peace be upon him. That is not true. The first muslim to be on this world is Adam for he believed in God alone and that is the essence of Islam.

From the first person to put his foot on earth ( Adam who was a muslim) till prophet Muhammad peace be upon him there is believed to have been about 120 000 prophets who were having the same concept about who God is and they were worshiping Him alone.

This explains how God chose to deliver for us the message or the way in which we had to live our lives. He chose messengers and prophets among us for them to share his message. He gave messengers revelations and he gave them miracles by his Will to prove to the people at their time that they are really receiving revelations from God. Miracles were like a support for their argument. In that way, people see the signs that would stimulate their minds and invite them to really give it a thought. Is God really there? Did he really send us revelations through messengers? and questions like that.

What is different about prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is that he was sent for the whole world as I previously quoted from the Quraan. In addition, and the most important difference is that Muhammad peace be upon him is the last messenger in Islam.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.

The fact that Quraan says that Muhammad peace be upon him is the last messenger means that the message of islam is now complete, and Quraan confirms that

5:3 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

But the real question arises here is that messengers at their times were given miracles to prove that they are really messengers. If Muhammad peace be upon him was sent for us, than what is the miracle that would be a sign for that. The answer is the Quraan. ( He also had other miracles that were meant for the people at his times)


What of the Gospel of Christ and the Holy book of the Christians and Jews? Is Muhammad mentioned?

We believe Jesus peace be upon him was a messenger of God and we believe he received a revelation called Injeel. However we believe that this injeel wasn't preserved as it was and is different from the bible we see today. Our view of the bible is that it contains some truth however there are many personal views attached to it. So we don't accept it to be the word of God. The bible we see today is not the same Injeel Quraan talks about. There are many additions, subtractions, and replacement. Even implicit statements are made to say somethings that are meant to.

Nevertheless some scholars to believe that there are some texts or expressions that refer to prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. And as muslims we do believe that each holy scripture foretold that there are messenger coming after and described them so that people would follow.

They quote John 16:7-8

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.


Some muslims say these verses are referring to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Majority of christians to my knowledge say that this refers to the holy ghost.

Another verse is Isaiah 29: 12

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

They explain that verse to be referring to Muhammad peace be upon him because the first word of the holy Quraan to be revealed to our prophet through the angel Gabriel was "read". The prophet replied I am not a reader.

In the hadeeth in as-Saheehayn from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her), she says: … (This went on) until the truth came to him when he was in the cave of Hiraa’. The angel came and said, “Read (or recite)!” He (the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)) said: “I said: ‘I am not a reader.’ Then he took hold of me and squeezed me until I could not bear it any more, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘I am not a reader.’ He took hold of me and squeezed me a second time until I could not bear it any more, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘I am not a reader.’ He took hold of me and squeezed me a third time until I could not bear it any more, then he released me and said: ‘Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists) … He has taught man that which he knew not.’ [al-‘Alaq 96:1-5].”

Some muslims even go further by saying that the name of Muhammad peace be upon him was mentioned in the song of solomon 5:16 but I didn't do my research on that.

Of course whether these links are perceived to be reasonable or not is subject to each person. In my opinion these are interesting points to look at, but the fact that we see the bible different from the Injeel that was revealed to our prophet Jesus peace be upon him makes this argument of less importance. However, many find that to be fascinating.

As for the holy book of the Jews, similarly we believe in the Torah however similarly to that of the injeel we can't find it in the original form.

3:3
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

3:4
Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution.

3: 50
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

There are more verses talking about Torah and Injeel (the gospel)


Is there anything special about Jesus in the Quran or Hadiths that would distinguish Him from any other Messenger or Prophet?

Yes there are many.

Here is a set of verses in particular I would like to highlight talking about the miraculous birth.

19:16-36

16 And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.

17 And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.

18 She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."

19 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

20 She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"

21 He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' "

22 So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

24 But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

25 And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.

26 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

27 Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.

28 O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."

29 So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"

30 [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

31 And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive

32 And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

34 That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.

35 It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

36 [Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

Here is a link for a comprehensive listing of the verses talking about Jesus peace be upon him if you like

https://www.namb.net/apologetics-bl...to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/?pageid=8589953017
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Satan's desperation is to make Muslims worship him
But he excelled in planting differences and discord among Muslims

Baha'is are not Muslims
They think they are Muslims

We do not make things belong to us (like Islam)
We belong to Islam
This is what you must have

The Shiites are wrong because they call on Hussein and Ali for mercy
They should have asked for mercy from God
They also have an exotic ritual that came from the teachings of another religion
I do not mean all Shiites but some Shiites

And that the Day of Judgment will be punished severely punished those who betrayed the message of God and those who contributed and helped to betray him

Is it belong, or is it Submission to God?

Peace be with you.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.

The fact that Quraan says that Muhammad peace be upon him is the last messenger means that the message of islam is now complete, and Quraan confirms that

Does that passage say last of the Messengers?

To me it reads Muhammad is a Messenger of God, the last of the Prophets. You noted above that Adam was the first of the Prophets.

I do not see where that would say Muhammad is the Last Messenger? Is there other passages that give more information on this?

Peace be with you
 

duvduv

Member
The problem here is that there is no actual evidence for the existence of the Mohammed of the Quran or that the Quran was written by him. Personally I am of the opinion that the person Mohammed was based on probably a tribal leader in Arabia (when Mecca was a spot on the map and not a trading center) among Arabs who were Abrahamite Bible-philes. Eventually their traditions and teachings were put together by the many scribes (probably many Jewish) of the Abbasid caliphate.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The problem here is that there is no actual evidence for the existence of the Mohammed of the Quran or that the Quran was written by him. Personally I am of the opinion that the person Mohammed was based on probably a tribal leader in Arabia (when Mecca was a spot on the map and not a trading center) among Arabs who were Abrahamite Bible-philes. Eventually their traditions and teachings were put together by the many scribes (probably many Jewish) of the Abbasid caliphate.

That is an interesting comment given Muhammad and the Koran are recent history compared to older scriptures.

Could not one say the same thing about all the Prophets of the Tanakh?

Peace be with you.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Satan's desperation is to make Muslims worship him
But he excelled in planting differences and discord among Muslims

Baha'is are not Muslims
They think they are Muslims

We do not make things belong to us (like Islam)
We belong to Islam
This is what you must have

The Shiites are wrong because they call on Hussein and Ali for mercy
They should have asked for mercy from God
They also have an exotic ritual that came from the teachings of another religion
I do not mean all Shiites but some Shiites

And that the Day of Judgment will be punished severely punished those who betrayed the message of God and those who contributed and helped to betray him
Thank you for your thoughts in regards the schism in Islam between Sunni and Shi’a. Do you have Hadiths in your tradition that you would consider the most reliable?

Of course I am a Baha’i and am proud to be considered such. Although I believe Muhammad to be a Messenger of God and the Holy Quran to be the authentic repository of the Word of God, I have no desire to bear the name Muslim.

“Perhaps you hate a thing that is best for you, and you love a thing that is bad for you. Allah knows, while you know not.” – [Quran, 2:216]
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Does that passage say last of the Messengers?

To me it reads Muhammad is a Messenger of God, the last of the Prophets. You noted above that Adam was the first of the Prophets.

I do not see where that would say Muhammad is the Last Messenger? Is there other passages that give more information on this?

Peace be with you

All the messengers are prophets but not all prophets are messengers.

When the Quraan says Muhammad peace be upon him in the last prophet it does mean that he is also the last messenger.

As I explained before Islam was revealed through the progressive messengers that came after each other. In the Quraan we find a verse which says that Allah has perfected our deen ( which is inaccurately translated into the word religion, it is rather a way of life). This verse means there will be no addition to the deen as the message has been fully delivered.

5:3
Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
@Sabour
Thank you very much for your thorough response to my post. Its good to have you back. There are not too many Muslims that are particularly active on RF and so I wonder if English not being the first language for many Muslims along with a clash with Western liberal values is a barrier.

As you probably realise I am a Baha'i. I grew up in a Western Christian country and became a Baha'i nearly 30 years ago. The Baha'i Faith makes a great deal of sense to me because of its emphasis on God, and Muhammad, Christ, and Moses are all Messengers of God. Although clearly not from a Muslim background I have come to learn about Islam and believe that Muhammad is a Messenger of God and the Holy Quran is the Word of God. That realisation would not have come about if I had not become a Baha'i. Unfortunately in the West, Islam does not appear an attractive religion and of course many are put off because of the religious extremism we hear about in the news.

We have a few theological differences. First, I believe that by seal of the prophets (Surah 33:40) Muhammad intended the end of the line of prophets starting from Adam but the stream of Divine Revelation would continue from time to time with the decline of moral standards. There are end time beliefs in Islam after all and the day of judgment.

Second, I do not believe the gospels are corrupted as many Muslim believe. There are 12 references to the Gospels or Injeen in the Holy Quran. None of the verses indicate that the Gospel the Christian's have is corrupt. I wonder if its a belief that has come about through the Ulama's misunderstanding rather than Muhammad or the Quran.

Baha'u'llah's revelation that includes Teachings about the equality of men and women, democracy, and abolition of slavery seem much more suited to the modern world than either the Teachings of Muhammad or Christ. But that's just my perception.

Thank you again for sharing your beliefs my friend.
 
Last edited:

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
All the messengers are prophets but not all prophets are messengers.

When the Quraan says Muhammad peace be upon him in the last prophet it does mean that he is also the last messenger.

As I explained before Islam was revealed through the progressive messengers that came after each other. In the Quraan we find a verse which says that Allah has perfected our deen ( which is inaccurately translated into the word religion, it is rather a way of life). This verse means there will be no addition to the deen as the message has been fully delivered.

5:3
Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

I must admit this view of scriptures makes no sense to me. I did a search of Judaisim and Christianity, I have also found statements of the finality of those Revelations.

I could use Christs words on the cross, "it is finished" and interpret that in the same way as that Quran verse.

Thus we do have a quandry and I wonder how the future will unfold while many think God has given no guidance for this age, all the while thinking they have made no error of interpretation in their chosen Faith.

I thank you for your replies. This has encouraged me to search deeper to see if I can find an answer to this quandry.

Peace be with you.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Satan's desperation is to make Muslims worship him
But he excelled in planting differences and discord among Muslims

Baha'is are not Muslims
They think they are Muslims

We do not make things belong to us (like Islam)
We belong to Islam
This is what you must have

The Shiites are wrong because they call on Hussein and Ali for mercy
They should have asked for mercy from God
They also have an exotic ritual that came from the teachings of another religion
I do not mean all Shiites but some Shiites

And that the Day of Judgment will be punished severely punished those who betrayed the message of God and those who contributed and helped to betray him
Christians believe in a real evil spirit being called Satan. By what you have said, so do Muslims. But Baha'is do not. Is there a way that the Baha'is are correct in saying Satan is only symbolic and not real? Or, does the Quran state that Satan is very real and out to deceive people?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
@Sabour
Thank you very much for your thorough response to my post. Its good to have you back. There are not too many Muslims that are particularly active on RF and so I wonder if English not being the first language for many Muslims along with a clash with Western liberal values is a barrier.

As you probably realise I am a Baha'i. I grew up in a Western Christian country and became a Baha'i nearly 30 years ago. The Baha'i Faith makes a great deal of sense to me because of its emphasis on God, and Muhammad, Christ, and Moses are all Messengers of God. Although clearly not from a Muslim background I have come to learn about Islam and believe that Muhammad is a Messenger of God and the Holy Quran is the Word of God. That realisation would not have come about if I had not become a Baha'i. Unfortunately in the West, Islam does not appear an attractive religion and of course many are put off because of the religious extremism we hear about in the news.

We have a few theological differences. First, I believe that by seal of the prophets (Surah 33:40) Muhammad intended the end of the line of prophets starting from Adam but the stream of Divine Revelation would continue from time to time with the decline of moral standards. There are end time beliefs in Islam after all and the day of judgment.

Second, I do not believe the gospels are corrupted as many Muslim believe. There are 12 references to the Gospels or Injeen in the Holy Quran. None of the verses indicate that the Gospel the Christian's have is corrupt. I wonder if its a belief that has come about through the Ulama's misunderstanding rather than Muhammad or the Quran.

Baha'u'llah's revelation that includes Teachings about the equality of men and women, democracy, and abolition of slavery seem much more suited to the modern world than either the Teachings of Muhammad or Christ. But that's just my perception.

Thank you again for sharing your beliefs my friend.
On the issue of corrupted Scriptures. You and Muslims do believe the Bible is wrong in thinking that Isaac was the one taken to be sacrificed by Abraham. It is one thing to say the Jewish scribes, prior to the time of Jesus, changed the verses, but you also have to believe the NT went along with the error and supports the belief that it was Isaac and not Ishmael taken to be sacrificed. So, if the Baha'is and the Muslims are correct, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian NT have a major error that they are teaching.

And I might as well throw in the resurrection. Baha'is say Jesus is dead and buried... that all the verses that talk about the post crucifixion encounters with a risen Jesus are all symbolic, do Muslims believe this also? I've heard that some believe that Jesus was never killed but a substitute was killed in his place. What are some of the other explanations Muslims have concerning the resurrection? Do any of them support the Baha'i belief that it was only symbolic?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
On the issue of corrupted Scriptures. You and Muslims do believe the Bible is wrong in thinking that Isaac was the one taken to be sacrificed by Abraham. It is one thing to say the Jewish scribes, prior to the time of Jesus, changed the verses, but you also have to believe the NT went along with the error and supports the belief that it was Isaac and not Ishmael taken to be sacrificed. So, if the Baha'is and the Muslims are correct, the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian NT have a major error that they are teaching.

I have come across this in my search.

From what I have read on that subject this is a spiritual bounty given to both Issac in the Bible and Ishmael in the Koran. Can not remember that source, but could find the source if needed, as it has stuck in mind.

Personally I see it is our inability to see with the Spirit that causes division in this world.

Imagine a world where we do nothing to each other but to offer praise in words and love in all our actions! This is Faith in God.

Peace be with you
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Thank you also for sharing your beliefs. It was quite informative. Now I know more about your faith but let me respond to a couple of points.

Second, I do not believe the gospels are corrupted as many Muslim believe. There are 12 references to the Gospels or Injeen in the Holy Quran. None of the verses indicate that the Gospel the Christian's have is corrupt. I wonder if its a belief that has come about through the Ulama's misunderstanding rather than Muhammad or the Quran.

The Quraan says that there is the Injeel revealed to out prophet Jesus peace be upon him. This means that if the bible is the injeel (not corrupted), than you would expect it to agree with the Quraan and that there would be no differences. I will not bore you with listing the differences you can find between the bible and in the Quraan.

2:79 So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

3:78 There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!

3:187 And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.

5:48 And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.


And I might as well throw in the resurrection. Baha'is say Jesus is dead and buried... that all the verses that talk about the post crucifixion encounters with a risen Jesus are all symbolic, do Muslims believe this also? I've heard that some believe that Jesus was never killed but a substitute was killed in his place. What are some of the other explanations Muslims have concerning the resurrection? Do any of them support the Baha'i belief that it was only symbolic?

We believe Jesus peace be upon him wasn't crucified and was not dead. We believe in his second coming and we also believe in the coming of the Mahdi.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Thus we do have a quandry and I wonder how the future will unfold while many think God has given no guidance for this age, all the while thinking they have made no error of interpretation in their chosen Faith.


Just for what it is worth, I didn't say there is no guidance for this age. The guidance for this age for me is the Quraan. My stance should rather be explained that God had taught humanity everything they need to know through the prophets and messengers. God's message is complete therefore there is not need for more revelations.

Let me quote the verse again

5:3

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Baha'u'llah's revelation that includes Teachings about the equality of men and women, democracy, and abolition of slavery seem much more suited to the modern world than either the Teachings of Muhammad or Christ. But that's just my perception.

I missed this part in my reply and replied to another member.

Islam did give women and humanity many rights. It discusses slavery because it was a major part in society at that part and it did help gradually by reducing it until it disappeared
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
And I might as well throw in the resurrection. Baha'is say Jesus is dead and buried... that all the verses that talk about the post crucifixion encounters with a risen Jesus are all symbolic, do Muslims believe this also? I've heard that some believe that Jesus was never killed but a substitute was killed in his place. What are some of the other explanations Muslims have concerning the resurrection? Do any of them support the Baha'i belief that it was only symbolic?

Let me quote form the Quraan.

4:157

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
 
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