I think you need to check on the definition of reality
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Why Can't I See God?
- Thread starter Khudayar
- Start date
I think you need to check on the definition of reality
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Im looking at an RF version where I cant see religious titles and number of posts. Im guessing youre new?
You can click your name above, go to Personal Preferences. At the bottom of the page, pick the appropriate forums. It will take a bit to change, but after couple mins to an hour, you can post in the forum(s) you selected.
Frater Sisyphus
Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
Reality is God itself, if that phrasing works better for you.
Everything that is, is collectively "God". The concept of coincidence, randomness, chaos, disorder, meanfulness, subjectivity and objectivity in the point they meet are what you'd call "God".
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but when we experience or feel something, we may not know exactly what it is. We might identify it as "love," but since emotions are often in a state of flux, some people get confused (just as some might confuse "love" with "lust" - that sort of thing).
But either way, if it's a feeling that's inside me, then the most I can say for certain is that it originates within me. I can't say with any certainty that the feeling came from somewhere else, which is what a claim about "God" amounts to. I've heard some supposition that the entire universe is analogous to "God's brain" of which we are all supposedly a part of. But even if accepted as true, that doesn't prove that God is a sentient, intelligent singular being who created everything. Nor would it prove that any such entity has any personal interest in "us" as humans.
I'm not really denying the possibilities here, but it's really all just a lot of "what if" and speculation. The main reason I reject religion is because every religion I encounter seems to be convinced that they hold a monopoly on truth that all other religions and sects do not have. It makes one feel as if it's a game of Russian Roulette, to have to try to pick the "correct" religion. It seems that picking the wrong religion carries the same consequences as picking no religion at all.
I think an important difference to make clear, while someone may experience profound emotional responses to the experience of God, the experience is far beyond mere emotions. It is a state of pure Awareness, touching Infinity with the mind, the soul, and every fiber of your physical body. It's more an experience like breathing the entire ocean. It brings you into a state of absolute stillness and silence. And the thing about that, is that even though the mind cannot fathom what that all is its magnitude, it is unmistakable as to its absolute reality. It cannot be compared to confusing lust with love, the way someone who has never experienced love yet may do.
Well, yes!
Why would God be outside of us? If God is Infinite, is it possible for there to be an "outside" of God? If not, that means we are in God and God is in us. God being the Source of all that is, is in all that is.Looking outside ourselves to see God, is like the eyeball trying to see itself with nothing but itself, or the tip of the finger trying to touch its own finger tip. The real key to seeing God, is to contemplate your own eye. Look within, not "out there". God is not an object, but the Subject of who and what we are, what everything and everyone is.
Not within my vocabulary.
Most all of that is just the anthropomorphic view of God as a type of Sky Parent.
It's unfortunate that they are struggling over ideas about God, while not seeing God at all. To claim you alone have the truth of God, proves you don't.
WH.Khos
learning is one way to find good truth
asslamungalaikum...
Hai...
May name is WH.Khosi
I'm a muslim from the the largest Islamic country in the world (Indonesia), with a Muslim population of 228,608,665 in 2017
with that number we can seize the iron throne (game of throne) LOL hehe ...
please allow me to comment a little, sorry if I make a mistake on my comments
"Limited ones cannot reach unlimited ones"
man can not reach the god we can only see the reality of the extraordinary work of God
and think about it the universe and all its contents that have been clearly explained by scientists, cannot be created by chance,
it is the work of God.
ولما جاء موسى لميقاتنا وكلمه ربه قال رب أرني أنظر إليك قال لن تراني ولكن انظر إلى الجبل فإن استقر مكانه فسوف تراني فلما تجلى ربه للجبل جعله دكا وخر موسى صعقا فلما أفاق قال سبحانك تبت إليك وأنا أول المؤمنين
"And when Moses came for us at the appointed time and the Lord had said to him,
Moses said:" O my Lord, appear [of You] to me that I may see unto thee.
"The Lord said: "You can not see me at all, but look to that hill, and if he remains in his place (as it once was) you can see Me."
When his Lord appeared to the mountain, he made the mountain crumble and Moses and then fainted, so after Moses came to his senses
he said: "Glory be to You, I repent to You and I am the first to believe."
(Qur'an Al-A'raf: 143)
إن في خلق السماوات والأرض واختلاف الليل والنهار لآيات لأولي الألباب الذين يذكرون الله قياما وقعودا وعلى جنوبهم ويتفكرون في خلق السماوات والأرض
Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day there are signs for intelligent people,
(that is) those who remember Allah while standing or sitting or lying down and thinking about the creation of the heavens and the earth
Qur'an [Ali ‘Imran/3:190-191].
that is't thank you
WH.Khos
learning is one way to find good truth
@Windwalker :
"Limited ones cannot reach unlimited ones"
man can not reach the god we can only see the reality of the extraordinary work of God
and think about it the universe and all its contents that have been clearly explained by scientists, cannot be created by chance,
it is the work of God.
so I suggest stopping fantasizing about God.
let God be God.
and we must Be human.
not a fierce lion.
or greedy pigs.
but human beings who have sense and use well to be good human beings.
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It was a reasonable video as pertains the inmost essence of God, however it failed to address that in some places of the Quran God is described as having a face and a hand.
Baha'u'llah argued that to ascribe these things to the inmost essence of God was naught other than blasphemy, and that these descriptions figuratively applied to what He termed "Manifestations of God" ie people like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad whom He described as being like perfect mirrors reflecting the attributes of God.
You can read more about this in the Kitab Iqan at Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41
Kind regards
Altfish
Veteran Member
I think most scholars would agree that it was 'man made god' rather than 'god made man'.
God(s) was invented to explain the unknown. Where does thunder come from? - god did it. Why did we have an earthquake? - god was angry (many nut case evangelicals in the US still play this card)
I never said "God exists or doesn't exist" was a smart or dumb claim, it is just the logical claim based on the evidence.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I just said "God is not a man made creation", because if it is a creation "we should be able to see God". So I said it is better to call it imagination
"God created man": at least "we are able to see man", so this makes more sense than "man created God", which we can't see. I don't say it makes sense though.
That makes sense to me. I would not say "nut case evangelicals" though [I learned on RF better not to use "Ad Hominem" attack].
But I have to agree that sometimes it's wiser to not speak for some evangelicals, but of course they are free to say "dumb things"
I know you didn't say that, I said that.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I never knew that. How God was perceived between sects in Islam .
Anyways if God can't be seen, how can adherents tell? In other words, what makes identity possible ? I don't see how that can come about from just reading a book
I was not being funny, i despair about the lack of understanding or downright misrepresentation of some words by certain groupings.
As i said, you need to learn the definition of reality, let me help you
Reality : the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
So you can of course provide evidence to confirm that your god (not any of the other several thousand gods) is concept of coincidence, randomness, chaos, disorder, meanfulness, subjectivity and objectivity? Or is this the part of the definition that reality is not?
Please provide citation of any reputable scientist who states
"the universe and all its contents that have been clearly explained by scientists, cannot be created by chance,
it is the work of God."
And i suggest stopping attempting to force the fantasy of a bronze age myth on to modern human beings.
Still, the human mind is a rather versatile instrument, very flexible and malleable. I'll confess that I have taken hallucinogens when I was younger, and I've felt similar feelings of awareness, touching infinity. I had this feeling that every point in the universe was somehow contained within me, as if everything was all in the same place. But at the end of the day, it's impossible to know whether I actually touched the "Great Beyond" or if it was just a hallucination brought on by a mind-altering drug.
Well, yes!
Looking outside ourselves to see God, is like the eyeball trying to see itself with nothing but itself, or the tip of the finger trying to touch its own finger tip. The real key to seeing God, is to contemplate your own eye. Look within, not "out there". God is not an object, but the Subject of who and what we are, what everything and everyone is.
Well, if God is everywhere and infinite, then it would stand to reason that He is also "inside" of us, yet also "outside" of us at the same time.
Not within my vocabulary.
I understand. I just like to differentiate between things I know to be true versus things that could be mere products of imagination or speculation.
From what many have said, it seems impossible for any of us mere mortals to understand or comprehend an entity which so powerful and immense. All anyone can do is guess, and the problem with guessing is that most of the time, guesses are wrong.
A lot of religions teach that to their flock. God is said to be "Our Father in Heaven" - a Sky Parent. Religions also teach that there are certain "special people" who are said to be God's representatives on Earth - sometimes called "prophets," "messiahs," "avatars," "messengers," or just more "enlightened" than the rest of the Great Unwashed.
Oh, it's not really that much of a struggle. I liken these kinds of questions to wondering whether or not there are aliens or UFOs in outer space. I don't think anyone has any real answers or even if they're asking the right questions. I've seen religious debates and discussions which usually follow the same general patterns: question-and-answer, point-counterpoint... But then, it invariably leads to a dead end, since nobody really knows what they're talking about. It tends to degenerate into "well, it's a mystery" or "put your trust in God."
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Huh?
Both testaments teach the holiness of God and the perfection of the afterlife, something which humans universally fall short of:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Why would anyone have absolute certainty on a subject where all the evidence is indistinguishable from dreams and illusions?
Or even delusions?
I realize that there are a few hard atheists out there. But not many, and personally I think that they suffer from the same egotistical delusions that religionists do. They believe that their confidence in their own perceptions is the equivalent of knowledge.
Tom
It stands to reason that there are probably also significant contrasts between the views of scholars and those of the actual masses, even inside specific sects.
After all, we are talking about Islaam - a doctrine that very much demands its own atheists to be secretive about their atheism.
Frater Sisyphus
Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
You're not getting what I'm saying whatsoever but I can't force you to think.
What you are saying is irrelevant, the definition states (i repeat)
"Reality : the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them."
So you replace evidence with dreaming and delusion while calling it thinking and you complain im not thinking like you.
Frater Sisyphus
Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
You're not thinking about anything I've ****ing said. God is attribution of the objective reality. It is NOT deity. God is a both meaningless and entirely meaningful.
You're talking about the same bloody thing I am yet you're so short sighted to think I am disagreeing
Once you apply the word "God" to it, then you get offended and start attacking.