Is evangelicalism slowly evolving into a cult?

David T · Jul 25, 2018

I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

Kenny · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

I am reminded of the Corinthian arm of the Body of Christ. Full of flaws yet God was moving mightily among them. Full of extremes, yet full of life.

Sometimes, IMV, we forget that the Church is made up of people, some are fleshy, some are babies, some are young, some are mature, some are fathers and some are wolves in sheep's clothing.

All in flux but we rest assured that "the good work God has begun in us, He is well able to complete" and that He has the capacity to present His bride without spot and without wrinkle.

David1967 · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

Christianity is too diverse a religion to generalize. But if you are referring to the "prosperity Gospel". I don't think it is 'evolving' into a cult. I think it has 'always' been a cult. Prosperity preachers using scripture verses picked from here and there to deceive their followers into parting with there hard earned paychecks. They make me sick.

Nakosis · Jul 25, 2018

1. The Abrahamic covenant is a means to material entitlement.

2. Jesus’s atonement extends to the “sin” of material poverty.

3. Christians give in order to gain material compensation from God.

4. Faith is a self-generated spiritual force that leads to prosperity.

5. Prayer is a tool to force God to grant prosperity.

Where did the prosperity gospel come from?
The prosperity gospel originated as an offshoot of Pentecostalism in post-World War II America. While it started in local congregations and in tent revivals, the movement gained a larger following through the use of radio and television, and became firmly entrenched in the 1980s with the rise of “televangelism.”

While not all prosperity gospel preachers are Pentecostal or charismatic (and most charismatic and Pentecostal Christians are not associated with the prosperity gospel), the movement is still largely connected to revivalist and charismatic churches. This has made it easier for the movement to gain traction in Africa, South America, and other areas of the world where Pentecostalism is rapidly expanding.

Who preaches the prosperity gospel?
The man who could be considered the father of modern prosperity gospel teaching is Oral Roberts. The faith-healing evangelist became so influential that he started his own school, Oral Roberts University (ORU). At the height of his influence, Roberts oversaw a ministry that brought in $110 million in annual revenue.

Kenneth Copeland, a student at ORU who served as a pilot and chauffeur for Oral Roberts, also became one of the most notorious (and wealthiest) of prosperity preachers. These men paved the way for the televangelists who became famous in the 1980s, including Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, and Robert Tilton.

Today, some of the best-known prosperity teachers are Creflo Dollar, T. D. Jakes, Guillermo Maldonado, Joel Osteen, and Paula White.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

Just curious what prosperity gospel was.

Rational Agnostic · Jul 25, 2018

David1967 said:
Christianity is too diverse a religion to generalize. But if you are referring to the "prosperity Gospel". I don't think it is 'evolving' into a cult. I think it has 'always' been a cult. Prosperity preachers using scripture verses picked from here and there to deceive their followers into parting with there hard earned paychecks. They make me sick.

Religion is a great way to scam people out of money, and it's clearly effective as it is a major money generator. Just tell the congregation that God will reward them for giving enough money to the church, oh, and throw some bible quotes about how giving is good, and how people who don't give enough money just might end up in hell. Do it enough and the people will give more money, and the preacher can buy more houses and yachts.

LuisDantas · Jul 25, 2018

There is a sizeable contingent of gospel-preaching Christianity that might as well advertise themselves as intermediators, given their attitude.

Cobol · Jul 25, 2018

The evangelical Christian message is loud and clear. They care for no one but themselves. Their devotion is to the version of Christianity they have created, which calls for ruthless abandonment of immigrants, women, children – even their own – and anyone else who doesn’t fall inline with their message. Social justice, which is mentioned in Bible verses over two thousand times, has been replaced with hardline political ideology. Principle over people. Indifference over involvement. Judgment over generosity.

Ellen Brown · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

I started out in Christianity in 1974, in my late 20's and feel perhaps stronger about the bizarre nature of certain branches of Christianity than you might. I think the TV Evangelicals have done a horrendous amount of damage. Our family moved around a lot, starting out in a sort of Baptist Church, then non-denominational where high profile Pastors with huge churches ruled. As I've said before, my departure from Christianity was driven partially by "feel good" theology. They seemed to put the blame on people who struggled for backsliding, when infact everyone has some trouble in their life.They tried to abrogate parts of the Bible that made sense, but to then had no validity.

Of course, Israel did this "great falling away" in their own OT history, and perhaps several times. They murdered how many Prophets?

My introduction to Islam was to try to understand why they were mad enough at us to do the 9/11 attack. Over the years, I've realized that about 20 bad men did 9/11 and the whole of the Islamic religion is not at fault. They re-defined the word Jihad, perverting it to the point that its present day use is totally wrong. Jihad used to be about our inner self struggle to make ourselves pleasing to Allah. Now to the ignorant, the meaning is war against the infidel.

Other than my non-Islamic belief about Jesus Christ as the Son of God, I remain Muslim in the way I think.

I've seen some indication that there still are some Christian Churches that teach theology that is soundly based in the Bible, and this pleases me.

Ellen Brown · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

Not to be Too snarky about this, but isn't Catholicism sort of the master re-definers, and abrogators?

David T · Jul 25, 2018

David1967 said:
Christianity is too diverse a religion to generalize. But if you are referring to the "prosperity Gospel". I don't think it is 'evolving' into a cult. I think it has 'always' been a cult. Prosperity preachers using scripture verses picked from here and there to deceive their followers into parting with there hard earned paychecks. They make me sick.

I seems to have been a fringe and now takes up a larger portion of evangelicalism. I also find the mega church to be disturbing as well.. Although I think Rick Warren compared to many is a hard core reasoned individual compared to many. Don't get me going on bill hybels a snake finally caught. I called that in 1991.

David T · Jul 25, 2018

KenS said:
I am reminded of the Corinthian arm of the Body of Christ. Full of flaws yet God was moving mightily among them. Full of extremes, yet full of life.

Sometimes, IMV, we forget that the Church is made up of people, some are fleshy, some are babies, some are young, some are mature, some are fathers and some are wolves in sheep's clothing.

All in flux but we rest assured that "the good work God has begun in us, He is well able to complete" and that He has the capacity to present His bride without spot and without wrinkle.

Well yes the deepest flaw in church is its filled with normal folks attempting to understand the bible. That's a natural disaster wait g to happen. But it does seem to be slowly swerving into wierdess more so than I recall.

Ellen Brown · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
Well yes the deepest flaw in church is its filled with normal folks attempting to understand the bible. That's a natural disaster wait g to happen. But it does seem to be slowly swerving into wierdess more so than I recall.

Might that be, "filled with normal folk trying to redefine the Bible?".

David T · Jul 25, 2018

Ellen Brown said:
I started out in Christianity in 1974, in my late 20's and feel perhaps stronger about the bizarre nature of certain branches of Christianity than you might. I think the TV Evangelicals have done a horrendous amount of damage. Our family moved around a lot, starting out in a sort of Baptist Church, then non-denominational where high profile Pastors with huge churches ruled. As I've said before, my departure from Christianity was driven partially by "feel good" theology. They seemed to put the blame on people who struggled for backsliding, when infact everyone has some trouble in their life.They tried to abrogate parts of the Bible that made sense, but to then had no validity.

Of course, Israel did this "great falling away" in their own OT history, and perhaps several times. They murdered how many Prophets?

My introduction to Islam was to try to understand why they were mad enough at us to do the 9/11 attack. Over the years, I've realized that about 20 bad men did 9/11 and the whole of the Islamic religion is not at fault. They re-defined the word Jihad, perverting it to the point that its present day use is totally wrong. Jihad used to be about our inner self struggle to make ourselves pleasing to Allah. Now to the ignorant, the meaning is war against the infidel.

Other than my non-Islamic belief about Jesus Christ as the Son of God, I remain Muslim in the way I think.

I've seen some indication that there still are some Christian Churches that teach theology that is soundly based in the Bible, and this pleases me.

well the bible is not easy. Interesting journey thank you for that.. I had an experience in church quaker church actually. They spend a lot of quiet time. I was only attending to network actually. Had zero idea about either the bible or jesus. About 1978 at 22..didnt understand any of it went back to college and got a theology degree understood it more intellectually and at the same time it was pulling me away from my experience. Finally had to quit to confusing. Eventually discovered how I was suppose to understand that experience. In nature as some as that. Maybe I don't care for buildings.

David T · Jul 25, 2018

Ellen Brown said:
Might that be, "filled with normal folk trying to redefine the Bible?".

Yes and it seems so science to me!!!!

Ellen Brown said:
Might that be, "filled with normal folk trying to redefine the Bible?".

Yes. Well put. There is a section at the end of revelations that says "do not add to nor remove a single word from this writing."

I find it curious people skip right over that and attempt to interpret. That's really facinating to me the lack of reading comprehension in regards to that. It also tells me that they may have understood some things that generally are not understood today. We are talking about texts difficult 2,000 years ago so lots of education does not make them clearer and I might say to a degree less clearer actually.

Kenny · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
Well yes the deepest flaw in church is its filled with normal folks attempting to understand the bible. That's a natural disaster wait g to happen. But it does seem to be slowly swerving into wierdess more so than I recall.

I guess we have different perspectives. I think God is greater that all that.

Ellen Brown · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
Yes and it seems so science to me!!!!

Yes. Well put. There is a section at the end of revelations that says "do not add to nor remove a single word from this writing."

I find it curious people skip right over that and attempt to interpret. That's really facinating to me the lack of reading comprehension in regards to that. It also tells me that they may have understood some things that generally are not understood today. We are talking about texts difficult 2,000 years ago so lots of education does not make them clearer and I might say to a degree less clearer actually.

Not to be argumentative at all. My thought about that last sentence in the book of Revelation is that no one is to change or add to that book. John wrote the book around 80 AD, plus/minus, right ? So my thought about it is the Bible was not a book then, so John could have meant only that book? And yes, that idea opened the stage for the Mormons and some others. My idea about the Mormons is that the belief system just ran off the rails even before Joseph Smith was dead. Polygamy and other vile things were never supposed to be part of it. He blew it by getting mixed up with the Masons. Just my opinion.

The book of Revelation seems like it draws heavily on Isaiah, Jeremiah and certain acts of Jesus. I've been thinking on reading the book of Revelations again. Perhaps I should do it?

David T · Jul 25, 2018

KenS said:
I guess we have different perspectives. I think God is greater that all that.

Indeed, God even works through stupidity that's old testament.

David T · Jul 25, 2018

Ellen Brown said:
Not to be argumentative at all. My thought about that last sentence in the book of Revelation is that no one is to change or add to that book. John wrote the book around 80 AD, plus/minus, right ? So my thought about it is the Bible was not a book then, so John could have meant only that book? And yes, that idea opened the stage for the Mormons and some others. My idea about the Mormons is that the belief system just ran off the rails even before Joseph Smith was dead. Polygamy and other vile things were never supposed to be part of it. He blew it by getting mixed up with the Masons. Just my opinion.

The book of Revelation seems like it draws heavily on Isaiah, Jeremiah and certain acts of Jesus. I've been thinking on reading the book of Revelations again. Perhaps I should do it?

I have a similar book sitting about 10 feet away written in the 20th century. Its called libre novus or commonly called the red book by Carl jung. I have never actually read it but I understand how that came about. The art work is fantastic.

Ellen Brown · Jul 25, 2018

David T said:
I have a similar book sitting about 10 feet away written in the 20th century. Its called libre novus or commonly called the red book by Carl jung. I have never actually read it but I understand how that came about. The art work is fantastic.

I think I remember hearing about the Red Book, but do not ever remember seeing or reading it.

David T · Jul 26, 2018

Ellen Brown said:
I think I remember hearing about the Red Book, but do not ever remember seeing or reading it.

Its a rather remarkably crafted book. He was in the middle of a psychosis. I like saying that it makes it spookier!! He described it like mescaline. Although I don't know if he ever actually tried mescaline. Nietzche wrote his last book in the same state of mind but never returned so to speak.

Is evangelicalism slowly evolving into a cult?

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