OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Psalm 51:11 "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."
Did Saul keep the commandments of Jesus?
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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter David1967
- Start date
Psalm 51:11 "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."
Did Saul keep the commandments of Jesus?
Just talk to Rabbio... he will tell you the triune God is not what they believe.
As far as Saul... he was participant to Stephen's death and he imprisoned Christians and killed others.... so.
Since he was against Jesus, was he God's Apostle to the Gentiles or of the Devil?
Careful now, we don't want to call good - evil or call evil - good.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Matthew 22:37-38 Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment."
This does not mean that the holy spirit (Ruch HaKodesh) does not exist. It just has a different theology.
See here
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What the Christian scripture says has no meaning to me. Nor does it change the fact that in the Jewish faith, the first commandment is 'be fruitful and multiply'. I was just confused because when someone says 'the first commandment', that is what comes to mind; but Christians say 'the first commandment' to mean a different one.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
If I may ask, How does that line up what Christ Jesus has said what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is in the book of Mark 13
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Since Jesus says that the Pharisees killed Him to steal His inheritance,
Jesus never forgave Saul, because Jesus never forgave Judas.
And Judas wasn't even after everything that belongs to Jesus, including title to the Promised Land, Shepherd of believers, and the Crown of the Kingdom. This story keeps on playing in a loop.
Did Saul keep the commandments of Jesus? Because Jesus makes that the requirement for being given the Holy Spirit. No, Saul did not... in fact, his without-law-gospel causes people to apostacize and blaspheme God.
Here's more proof of what I'm saying about Saul of Tarsus:
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend (trip up, trap) one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Acts 26:11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled [them] to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities.
Do you think that being tortured into blasphemy fits the definition of offending the followers of Jesus? I sure do. That millstone (belonging to a donkey) gets tossed into the sea by an angel, in the Revelation.
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OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
I'm not a christian, by definition, since I don't follow Saul, the hireling of Antioch.
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I understand that, but you seem to refer to the Tanach the way standard Christians do. Your understanding of 'first commandment' is the same as theirs.
I read that scripture of things that were, that are and that are to come... but where does it mention the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit?
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Read Mark chapter 13, it's all there about the blasphemy of the Spirit.
Christ Jesus foretold what the Blasphemy of the Spirit is.
And when it will happen.
And who can commit it.
In some ways its a reasonable analogy. It would be hard to appreciate the unseen spiritual forces that were present and animating the teaching work of the early apostles.
I suppose if you have a 'without-law-gospel', you can give an incoherent 'without-reason-answer'.
Jesus being God physically incarnate is certainly a unique belief to the Christians. From a logic and scriptural perspective it doesn't make too much sense. Then again as the apostle Paul famously said:
'unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;'
1 Corinthians 1:23
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
You are mistaken... I do NOT have the grace-without-law-gospel... and that's why I don't call myself a christian, because most christians follow Saul.
I follow the Kingdom Gospel of Jesus. And Jesus says that the Pharisees killed Him to steal His inheritance. Jesus never forgave Saul, because Jesus never forgave Judas.
But christians are believing the grace-gospel of Saul, which blasphemes the Father by calling the law a curse, in Galatians 3. And also by saying that anything besides the grace-without-law-gospel is to be cursed, Galatians 1. In other words, adrian009, Saul curses the Kingdom Gospel. He even says that Jesus became a curse, which is blasphemous nonsense.
Jesus warns us about Saul, in several places, including this one:
Matthew 18:6 "But whoso shall offend (trip up, trap) one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"
If this is incoherent to you, then you're either a Paulinist and don't know it, or English is your second language.
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OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
And of course, Saul was wrong, since the crucifixion isn't the stumblingblock, unless you're a Pharisee, and ordered the death of Jesus. The Pharisees and chief priests caused the Jews to call for the death of someone who had come to put an end to the rule of the Pharisees. At which point, the Pharisees stole the inheritance of Jesus.
Jesus calls them the sons of their father, because they work for Satan.
Here is Satan's first attempt at stealing Jesus' 3-part inheritance:
1. The Promised Land.
Turn stones into bread, Trade your inheritance for a bowl of lentils. (Genesis 25:34)
2. Bruise the head of the serpent.
Cast Yourself down, or Raise Yourself from the dead. (John 10:17)
3. King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Gain the kingdoms of the world, Lose Your soul. (Matthew 16:26)
And here's Satan's second attempt at stealing Jesus' inheritance:
Revelation 2:20-22 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication (idolatry); and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (apostacy) with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."
14:8 "And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
1 Cor 8:4 "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world... 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple..."
Jesus was warning us about Saul of Tarsus. Jesus says that Jezebel, infiltrator of the churches that belong to Jesus, is tossed into the same bed in which we see fullgrown Babylon teaching the whole wide world the same thing. Would you be surprised if Saul's "dead in christ" turn out to be locusts?
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Thank you for clarifying your perspective. For the record I believe the apostles, Paul included were guided by God’s unerring spirit. In that sense I believe as most Christians that the New Testament is authentic, authoritative and for the most part uncorrupted.
Interestingly the belief that Saul corrupted the New Testament is a common belief amongst Muslims. I can’t see you joining the Muslims in a hurry though.
I think being on RF may be a supportive environment for you to better explore your theology. One suggestion though. Having a lot of scripture without accompanying rational tends to turn a lot of people off. You may want to change your communication style and have more of your thoughts and reasoning and less scripture. Just a suggestion.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
So are you saying that Christ Jesus was wrong for choosing Paul. What about all the other disciples accepting Paul, so I suppose they are all wrong also, by your standards.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
If that's what's going on in your head, no wonder you dislike Scripture. There is no proof that Saul of Tarsus is anything other than that of which Jesus warns us... er... those who believe Him. And of course, James speaks against Saul's faith without works, just as Jesus does in the Revelation. And John takes on the whole "semblance of flesh" issue, regarding Saul. And Jude tackles Saul head-on, accusing him of the same "great swelling words" that are used in Daniel 11, re: the man who brings a god his fathers never knew. Jesus calls the church that believes Saul those who are seduced by someone calling himself a prophet into eating foods sacrificed to idols... and Jesus calls Saul's deep things, the deep things of Satan. In fact, church history shows us that Nicolas meant conquest of the people and stood for Saul.
But who cares, right? People will believe what they want to believe until they wake up in a hot dark place, chanting to themselves, I'm not here, this isn't happening. But you are convinced that I must be here for support? Seriously? I am here as a voice crying in the wilderness, or words to that effect. And people like you are not those to whom I might want to appeal. If philosophy is what trips your trigger, you're in the right place... but speaking to someone who hears Jesus' and no hireling that excapes in a basket... or yells at someone for daring to strike his precious self... no hireling who had his later-day biographer write a document completely at odds with the letters of Saul of Tarsus... and a document which is also at odds with itself. Who, by the way, changes his mind about his being sent only to the gentiles, by the time he's spirited off to Rome, and away from the irrate people who believed Moses and saw Saul as the threat that he really and truly is.
Saul has tossed out the Law that was put in place to show us what to do with people who kick the Law to the curb, calling it excrement; calls Jesus a curse; and curses the entire lot of Jesus' personally and proven, hand-picked and taught Disciples. And Saul has cursed in advance the angel who will, without a doubt, have a different (eternal) gospel than that of grace-without-law. Jude has him pinned. The same people who are told that "all things are lawful" are seen "sleeping with their father's wife"... which event Saul didn't see coming... for some reason. Chosen from the foundation of the world, imputed righteousness... a license to sin, in any language.
So please, tell me, what sort of support do you think a person who honestly and truly believes Jesus is ever likely to get... anywhere on Earth. Never mind. The answer is nowhere. Good thing I'm not looking for it, right? What I am looking for are like-minded people who don't mind being something other than lemmings. People who know that you have to be different to be better.
David has most of us out-context'd. Every context has a context, but we all die and are replaced so rapidly like grass. The next generation is as clueless as the first. As we die it is as Ecclesiastes mourns that all we build is inherited by a variable. Will anything we write be appreciated? David has a track record on RF of just getting people to talk and think. I don't know how he dies it.
I agree about hirelings. I think a lot of people do in every generation. Despite that they keep getting hired!
There are some. I do not know all of them but the quakers and the unity churches don't. Well...they are liberal churches and not appeal to you plus unity does have paid ministry. I just mean that its not everybody for what value you find in that.
This is strange. Without Paul what business is it of a gentile? How did you hear of Jesus? Who told you to care about any of this Jewish stuff? I think this is a good question. Jesus is a Jew, and he never sends any disciples or apostles to anybody except for other Jews. What do you care if you are just some gentile like me? Without Paul you and I have no invitation. We are bloodthirsty outsiders. If you want to be in the party you have to be invited.