• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Suicide

Earthling

David Henson
Judges 9:52-54 - Abimelech made a dying request based upon his own primitive thinking. I wouldn’t consider this a Bible commentary on suicide as much as it is an excellent opportunity for the skeptic to make the Bible look sexist. 2 Samuel 11:21 seems to indicate that Abimelech's effort was in vain.

Judges 16:29-30 - Samson was the blinded captive of a people who he had killed many of; in other words, he was a dead man. He seized the opportunity much like a good soldier in a similar position would have done.

John 10:17-18 - There are some interesting points about these verses. Note that in the original language Jesus actually says that he was giving his soul (Greek psykhe) in order that he might receive it again. His soul. Verse 17 has Jesus surrendering his soul, in other words his blood or life, so that he might receive it again. This sort of reminds me of heart surgery where the heart is stopped and the person is in effect dead, so that they might live.

Jesus had lived in spirit form in heaven long before the earth was created, and he would live as such again. (John 8:23 / Colossians 1:15) What he was doing was giving his life or blood from the physical body in human form which he had briefly lived. Jesus’ experience could hardly be seen as an example of the benefits of suicide since only Jesus would ever have to make such a sacrifice, and his return three days later is not something that a person committing suicide could expect.

The Bible says that there is no greater love than to give ones life for another. (John 15:13) I doubt that even the most hard core skeptic would see a parent giving their life for a child or a soldier giving his life for country or cause as suicide.

Revelation 9:6 - Revelation chapter nine is talking about spiritual destruction, the sting from the scorpions isn’t even real. That the people would rather die than face the spiritual destruction they have, up to that point, perpetuated as well as have been enslaved to through tradition doesn’t really speak to me about suicide as much as it does a lack of appreciation of life. They are not liberated by truth, they cling to their destructive traditions to the grave rather than give them up.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Someone I know just died of suicide. He had lost his wife of 60 years, he was in constant cancer pain, having not been sick enough to see a doctor once before in his life he was used to waking up early to maintain things on the farm which he now couldn't do so everything was going downhill. Almost all his neighbors had moved away so most weeks there was no one to talk to. Was his suicide a sin, a worse act than Samson's self-sacrifice to kill people on his final moments? I'd like to think that he'd reached the natural end and his suicide was better than one of blazing glory where enemies are killed in a suicide attack like the Samson story.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Someone I know just died of suicide. He had lost his wife of 60 years, he was in constant cancer pain, having not been sick enough to see a doctor once before in his life he was used to waking up early to maintain things on the farm which he now couldn't do so everything was going downhill. Almost all his neighbors had moved away so most weeks there was no one to talk to. Was his suicide a sin, ....

It depends on what sin means. If sin is, as I think it is, that person rejects God, it could be that it was sin.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Yeah, when you think about it, Jesus was just suicide by cop.

So, if person points other with gun and says, “I kill you, if you don’t do what I say” and the other person doesn’t do it and gets killed, it is his own fault and the murderer can go free, because the other “commit suicide”? I think that is really sick idea and I hope it won’t become popular.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
So what are you saying he should have done?

I think people should love others as long as they live. I understand that person can be sad and think there is nothing for him, but I think it is not good to focus on self, but rather focus on helping others and making life of others better.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I think people should love others as long as they live. I understand that person can be sad and think there is nothing for him, but I think it is not good to focus on self, but rather focus on helping others and making life of others better.
It seems you have no understanding of cancer pains or of being weak enough to barely be able to eat. Who should he have helped with his strength I wonder? Given that the farm is quite isolated, there's a town maybe a dozen miles off but you can't even drive because you're almost blind and losing your faculties.

I understand that people who are against euthanasia often have zero empathy for people in these kinds of situations.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Judges 9:52-54 - Abimelech made a dying request based upon his own primitive thinking. I wouldn’t consider this a Bible commentary on suicide as much as it is an excellent opportunity for the skeptic to make the Bible look sexist. 2 Samuel 11:21 seems to indicate that Abimelech's effort was in vain.

Judges 16:29-30 - Samson was the blinded captive of a people who he had killed many of; in other words, he was a dead man. He seized the opportunity much like a good soldier in a similar position would have done.

John 10:17-18 - There are some interesting points about these verses. Note that in the original language Jesus actually says that he was giving his soul (Greek psykhe) in order that he might receive it again. His soul. Verse 17 has Jesus surrendering his soul, in other words his blood or life, so that he might receive it again. This sort of reminds me of heart surgery where the heart is stopped and the person is in effect dead, so that they might live.

Jesus had lived in spirit form in heaven long before the earth was created, and he would live as such again. (John 8:23 / Colossians 1:15) What he was doing was giving his life or blood from the physical body in human form which he had briefly lived. Jesus’ experience could hardly be seen as an example of the benefits of suicide since only Jesus would ever have to make such a sacrifice, and his return three days later is not something that a person committing suicide could expect.

The Bible says that there is no greater love than to give ones life for another. (John 15:13) I doubt that even the most hard core skeptic would see a parent giving their life for a child or a soldier giving his life for country or cause as suicide.

Revelation 9:6 - Revelation chapter nine is talking about spiritual destruction, the sting from the scorpions isn’t even real. That the people would rather die than face the spiritual destruction they have, up to that point, perpetuated as well as have been enslaved to through tradition doesn’t really speak to me about suicide as much as it does a lack of appreciation of life. They are not liberated by truth, they cling to their destructive traditions to the grave rather than give them up.

Wait, so Jesus wasn't *really* born and didn't *really* die, then?
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Someone I know just died of suicide. He had lost his wife of 60 years, he was in constant cancer pain, having not been sick enough to see a doctor once before in his life he was used to waking up early to maintain things on the farm which he now couldn't do so everything was going downhill. Almost all his neighbors had moved away so most weeks there was no one to talk to. Was his suicide a sin, a worse act than Samson's self-sacrifice to kill people on his final moments? I'd like to think that he'd reached the natural end and his suicide was better than one of blazing glory where enemies are killed in a suicide attack like the Samson story.
That's extremely sad! I couldn't imagine God being such a jerk as to send the poor guy to hell! :(
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
That's extremely sad! I couldn't imagine God being such a jerk as to send the poor guy to hell! :(
It is sad. I never heard of his situation until he was dead. Not many did, since he lived in the "middle of nowhere".

Of course no one is sending people to hell, just some people want to doom others to hell in their speculations. I feel it's good to carry on while we can, but there comes a moment when that's not possible. As for God, I always feel uncomfortable with people speaking for them even if they aren't talking about my God but their own.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
It seems you have no understanding of cancer pains or of being weak enough to barely be able to eat. Who should he have helped with his strength I wonder? Given that the farm is quite isolated, there's a town maybe a dozen miles off but you can't even drive because you're almost blind and losing your faculties.

If that is true, then I think other people should have helped that person.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
If that is true, then I think other people should have helped that person.
So you're saying it's not his fault.

He did have help of course. He had free healthcare. People came to see him every now and then, but you'd need to hire someone full time to come to middle of nothing. It also wouldn't have helped with the torture like pain or the fact that he lost everything he enjoyed doing.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
No. What person does, is his own fault.
Having people suffer past their limits for fear isn't a beautiful religious teaching, it's continued hell on earth for those people. In the countryside, people put down their animal friends or even wildlife that is suffering to death on a routine. Perhaps you believe that is also wrong? Like a man once told me seeing an animal with entrails out, you can wait for an hour and hope it dies, but it might come to haunt you. Lots of folks don't care much for others than themselves, so they might let it happen or even think it's good.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
In my own pain I endure because there are people who I live for. Would those disappear, who knows if I'd do the same as the man who will receive a Christian burial in the coming days.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
So, if person points other with gun and says, “I kill you, if you don’t do what I say” and the other person doesn’t do it and gets killed, it is his own fault and the murderer can go free, because the other “commit suicide”? I think that is really sick idea and I hope it won’t become popular.
Have you READ the NT? Jesus almost goes out of his way to irritate and instigate. He wasn't having a great time with his family, who thought he was crazy. People were threatening to kill him constantly. People kept swarming over him for healings to the extent he had to go hide. He was so clearly stressed out that he killed a fruit tree for not bearing fruit during a non-fruit season, when with his magic powers he could've easily MADE it give fruit. I think he WANTED to die by that point.

Besides, doesn't Christianity teach he wasn't so much executed as he sacrificed himself, even though clearly he was just executed? If he sacrificed himself: suicide.
 
Top