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Abandoning christianity, contradicts my beliefs.

ERLOS

ERLOS

God Feeds the Ravens
Shadow Wolf said:
... I don't buy into the silliness that is proclaiming yourself a sinner from the moment of your conception.
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From the moment you are born, you have to consume other life in order to sustain your own. This is what original sin means, imo

Shadow Wolf said:
... It was shown, for example, in a study that Christians tended to be less informed and knowledgeable of the Bible than Agnostics and Atheists.They probably know it was allegedly written by David, might know it has something to do with music, but the contents therein I would wager most are very ignorant of...
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What study? Why would atheists spend so much time studying the Bible, if they dislike it so much? Even a cursory knowledge of the Psalms shows that although David wrote some of them, most were composed often much later; the Rivers of Babylon psalm was written during the Babylonian captivity.

The word 'psalm' means 'song'. Monks chant through the whole psalter every week, or two. Coptic monks recite the whole psalter every day.

The Psalms are very well known.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
ERLOS said:
From the moment you are born, you have to consume other life in order to sustain your own. This is what original sin means, imo
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Sin does not apply to me. I am not shackled to such a notion.
ERLOS said:
Why would atheists spend so much time studying the Bible, if they dislike it so much?
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Atheists and Agnostics, unlike Christians, have to defend their positions. Many also started out as Christian, and abandoned Christianity once they read the Bible from front-to-back.
ERLOS said:
The Psalms are very well known.
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The Beatles are very well known. That doesn't mean people know their lyrics well, their history, or more than a few songs they recorded.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
ERLOS said:
Every time you eat, you kill. Every breath you take kills tiny airborne creatures? Every step you take ...
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So? That's how life works. Performing biologically necessary functions to continue and sustain my life are not sin. And to consider it sin is rather quite a predicament, because if we weren't to "sin" by not eating or breathing, you'd die, of suicide, another sin. So no matter what one does,
And I refuse to feel guilty for living. You can keep this sin. I don't want any.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
ERLOS said:
But you are a material being. Every time you eat, you kill. Every breath you take kills tiny airborne creatures? Every step you take ...
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This obvious truth does not deal with the unfortunate ancient belief in original sin based on the mythology blaming the mythical fall of ALL humanity on two fallible humans setup in mythical garden as mythically perfect, to eat the forbidden mythical fruit.

The reality is we are all born originally a fallible human.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
shunyadragon said:
This obvious truth does not deal with the unfortunate ancient belief in original sin based on the mythology blaming the mythical fall of ALL humanity on two fallible humans setup in mythical garden as mythically perfect, to eat the forbidden mythical fruit.

The reality is we are all born originally a fallible human.
Click to expand...
Only certain churches actually believe in original sin. Just something to note.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
As a matter of interest
shunyadragon said:
New International Version

John chapter 1

18 No one has ever seen God. The uniquely existing God, who is close to the Father’s side, has revealed him.
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The non bold is incorrect, literally contradicts the Bible. So, can't be read literally.
The bold seems ok to me

45 It is written in the Prophets: They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God only he has seen the Father.
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This can't mean, only Jesus, as contradicts the Bible. Read as 'of God', believers , they will know God, it makes sense.

47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
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King James Version

John Chapter 1

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
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The non bold cannot be read literally, as a general statement, as it would contradict the Bible.
The bold is actually, true, however straight translation, isn't 'son', it's 'god'.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
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This seems fine, again non bold cannot be read as literal/general statement. So non bold is contextual.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life..

What is the significant difference in the two translations? Do you know what the original Greek stated concerning the bold.

There may be a difference in interpretations, bu that does not reflect the differences in translations.


.
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You have to know context, however. A straight reading if the translation isn't apt, can cause the wrong meaning to be inferred.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Disciple of Jesus said:
Too many verses in the nt are contradicting certain religious beliefs, that I have. Im abandoning trying to justify verses, because these verses are throughout the nt.

Not sure what the discussion is, here, however if you are still a believer, just not a christian, I suppose that could be a topic.
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so...you are not able to resolve a quote to another quote?

perhaps the fulcrum is not the text

each event had it's own thrust into action
followed by some kind of resolve

what worked in the garden apparently would not have worked in Sodom and Gomorrah
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
it was noted.....the Carpenter would leave a place as He walked His ministry
and not many 'works' were done there

for their lack of reception
 
ERLOS

ERLOS

God Feeds the Ravens
shunyadragon said:
This obvious truth does not deal with the unfortunate ancient belief in original sin based on the mythology blaming the mythical fall of ALL humanity on two fallible humans setup in mythical garden as mythically perfect, to eat the forbidden mythical fruit.

The reality is we are all born originally a fallible human.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's Plato's cave. The higher/greater spiritual reality surrounds and contains and permeates the lower dimension of nature. 'The greater wheel of Spirit turns the lesser wheel of Nature, and is not turned by it.'

Nature includes all perceivable phenomena, from flowers to quarks and neutron stars.

Spiritual events have to be expressed for our natural understanding in symbols (or parables). The parable of Adam and Eve describes the descent of spirit into nature. For what reason we cannot know. They were given coats of skin.

The problem is people taking it literally? imo.
 
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D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Thief said:
so...you are not able to resolve a quote to another quote?

perhaps the fulcrum is not the text

each event had it's own thrust into action
followed by some kind of resolve

what worked in the garden apparently would not have worked in Sodom and Gomorrah
Click to expand...
?

Thief said:
it was noted.....the Carpenter would leave a place as He walked His ministry
and not many 'works' were done there

for their lack of reception
Click to expand...
What?
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
ERLOS said:
It's the part where they say: Is this not the carpenter we know, the son of Joseph. He replies: A prophet is without honour only in his own country.

'And he could do no miracles there because of their unbelief.'
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Ok, however what is the context...
 
ERLOS

ERLOS

God Feeds the Ravens
Disciple of Jesus said:
Ok, however what is the context...
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Mark 6:1-6
I'm not sure what it means, except that a person needs to take the first one step for God to take the other nine, perhaps?

We have free will. God can't make us do anything. We have to ask?

May be part of what it means?
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
ERLOS said:
Mark 6:1-6
I'm not sure what it means, except that a person needs to take the first one step for God to take the other nine, perhaps?

We have free will. God can't make us do anything. We have to ask?

May be part of what it means?
Click to expand...
I'm very much a God believer. I'm a syncretist. A theist.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
ERLOS said:
Yes, but it's Plato's cave. The higher/greater spiritual reality surrounds and contains and permeates the lower dimension of nature. 'The greater wheel of Spirit turns the lesser wheel of Nature, and is not turned by it.'

Nature includes all perceivable phenomena, from flowers to quarks and neutron stars.

Spiritual events have to be expressed for our natural understanding in symbols (or parables). The parable of Adam and Eve describes the descent of spirit into nature. For what reason we cannot know. They were given coats of skin.

The problem is people taking it literally? imo.
Click to expand...

I do not believe you addressed the issues here concerning 'Original Sin.' It is not a matter of being literal or not. It is a matter of fact in the beliefs of by far the majority of Christians,

Plato's Cave?!?!?! I believe you are misusing the concept. It is better used to describe those clinging to justify ancient belief systems based on mythology, and not going toward the light and freedom.
 
ERLOS

ERLOS

God Feeds the Ravens
Disciple of Jesus said:
I'm very much a God believer. I'm a syncretist. A theist.
Click to expand...

I understood that. Thank you. I'm a liberal Catholic.

shunyadragon said:
I do not believe you addressed the issues here concerning 'Original Sin.' It is not a matter of being literal or not. It is a matter of fact in the beliefs of by far the majority of Christians,

Plato's Cave?!?!?! I believe you are misusing the concept. It is better used to describe those clinging to justify ancient belief systems based on mythology, and not going toward the light and freedom.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't get that. Plato's cave is where people see only the shadows of what's really happening. Thru a glass darkly. Christians are allowed to think for themselves: unless they belong to the young earth fundamentalist variety, that seems to be so common nowadays?
 
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