Spiderman
Veteran Member
Give me the exact quote that says what you claim it says, please!
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I want to be nice to God!
- Thread starter Spiderman
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
I clicked on one of your quotes, and it didn't say what you claimed it said, so I lost interest in clicking on the others...please quote the exact verse please!
nPeace
Veteran Member
You haven't used any measuring rod to be able to judge that on, so I think it's reasonable that you agree you have no argument then?I don't know how much of it I find atrocious.
But the food that kills rats is almost all good healthy food. Just that tiny percent that is poison makes all of it deadly!
But flooding the world, hardening pharaoh's heart, killing the first born of Egypt, the plagues, genocide against enemies of Israel, destroying cities with fire and brimstone, killing a man for picking up sticks on Sabbath, killing a man for steadying a box, burning people for burning incense the wrong way, stoning adulterers, and cursing the descendants of ham for gazing at his Father's nakedness, is all some of the stupidest and disturbing things I've ever read about a supernatural entity (or anyone for that matter).
I think it's extremely disrespectful to God to attribute such stupidity, cruelty, insanity, nonsense, tyranny, and sick sociopathic behaviors to Yahweh.
By what standard do you judge God's actions to be wrong?
Your standards? Do they measure up?
I gave you an opportunity to use a measuring rod, but it seems you would rather not touch it. Is it because you know that your judgment is wrong?
Added to that, the things you mentioned were probably 0.01%.
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
Im not really sure what you are asking.
My measuring rod is my conscience, compassion, and the golden rule.
I'm always the first to admit that I could be mistaken and error in judgement.
I love God because I find I can't survive without his help.
It's just the conclusion I've come to.
I could be mistaken.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Then this should be easy.
If you can prove that if there was no law against each person executing their own justice, and someone raped and buggered your two year old daughter, that your justice would not be to put that man through an experience
you have an argument.
PaD....FWIW, I see you bravely defending a corrupt church. It isn't me who says its corrupt...its history.
What you have been taught by the RCC is not Christianity. When the bloodshed began and the Christian spirit departed from church in the early centuries...Christ left the building. But it was foretold that this apostasy would take place (Acts 20:28-30).....why are you surprised that it did? Jesus and the apostles told us that it was inevitable. (Matthew 13:36-43)
Jesus said "by their fruits" (Matthew 7:13-20) you would recognize the difference between one serving God and one not serving him.
Through his prophet Malachi he said...
"16 Then those who revered the Lord spoke with one another. The Lord took note and listened, and a book of remembrance was written before him of those who revered the Lord and thought on his name. 17 They shall be mine, says the Lord of hosts, my special possession on the day when I act, and I will spare them as parents spare their children who serve them. 18 Then once more you shall see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve him." (Malachi 3:16-18 NRSVCE)
Because it was not yet time to "cleanse" his people of their false teachings, (that was to take place in the time of the end. Daniel 12:9-10) the book that we currently recognize as "The Bible" was inspired of God, but written by men of his choosing. All such writing finished with the death of the last apostle, John.
Whom God used to compile the finished canon, was unimportant, because not a word in that collection of little books was written by a Catholic. All the writers were Jewish......and just as the apostate Pharisees used God 's word in their hypocritical worship, so did the RCC. (though not a lot, apparently)
And when Jesus comes as judge of all the earth, what does he say to those ones who did all things in Jesus name...? He tells them "I never knew you"....."never" means NOT EVER. Not from their beginnings has God written their names in his "book of remembrance". Why? Because he said that they were "workers of lawlessness". History tells us just how deeply the power they exerted even over kings, had corrupted them.
There is irony only in their claim to be followers of Christ.
I am not a Protestant. JW's are no part of Christendom.....we hold NO beliefs in common with them at all, having severed all ties with their beliefs and practices, and refusing to participate in their pagan inspired festivals. The "whore of Babylon" is not just the RCC but the entire world empire of false religion created by the devil to siphon off worship for himself.....all worship that God rejects, goes to the other "god" by default.
Christendom is just more reprehensible IMO.
Because it is "God's word".....not the words of men. God is the one who can use even his enemies to accomplish his will. He has done so in the past.
They don't know. But they keep pretending they do!
It makes perfect sense to those whom God has written in his book of life. Do you think he wants to exclude you?
I assure you he doesn't want to exclude anyone (2 Peter 3:9).....it is we who exclude ourselves by the decisions we make. Whilst ever you hold any animosity towards God and think and speak disrespectful things about him, he will not welcome you into his fold. The citizens of his Kingdom are being chosen very carefully. No person with rebellious thoughts or action will qualify to live there. This is something we can change, if we want to.
That is how I see things.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
If someone boinked my two year daughter, I would feel sorry for the guy for being so sick and hope that society be protected from the man. I would hope that God would heal the man of his desire to be a baby-boinker. If the man wanted to be put out of his misery, then euthanasia should be available for him. Otherwise, keep him behind bars or in a mental institution where he can't boink any more babies!Then this should be easy.
If you can prove that if there was no law against each person executing their own justice, and someone raped and buggered your two year old daughter, that your justice would not be to put that man through an experience
Earthling
David Henson
I'm sort of going to teach you a lesson on Bible study, which differs from Bible reading. Let's concentrate on the first scripture I gave you, Romans 9:18. If you go to Bible Gateway and type in Romans 9:18 in the book field at the top of the page and select the last English translation in the corresponding drop down menu of translations next to it you get Young's Literal Translation of the scripture. Here.
You can go through the list of translations and compare them. They all pretty much say the same as the KJV, which this forum uses. But then you get to one translation, the Passion translation, and it gives the following footnote.
- Romans 9:18 Although the Greek implies God hardens hearts, the Aramaic is more of a Hebrew idiom, “God gives permission for them to be hardened.” This implies the hardening the heart is from within the individual.
Then you keep going up the list. It's like you are a police investigator and you have all of these imperfect witnesses and you have to make some sense out of them. . . then you get to the NABRE which has a footnote.
- 9:18 The basic biblical principle is: those who will not see or hear shall not see or hear. On the other hand, the same God who thus makes stubborn or hardens the heart can reconstruct it through the work of the holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit can be God's helper with us, making us see things we couldn't see before. But, he can withhold it as well, if there is good reason for doing that. He did that with Saul. And he did it with Pharaoh. I showed you this earlier in my response to your accusation that God lied. In this post, at the [Edit. Paul calls it the "operation of error."
nPeace
Veteran Member
Oh. You missed somethingIf someone boinked my two year daughter, I would feel sorry for the guy for being so sick and hope that society be protected from the man. I would hope that God would heal the man of his desire to be a baby-boinker. If the man wanted to be put out of his misery, then euthanasia should be available for him. Otherwise, keep him behind bars or in a mental institution where he can't boink any more babies!
Each person is their own law - no jails. Sorry
Don't worry about it. Were you born Jewish?
I'm asking because it sounds like you were taught some good values - like to be forgiving and so forth. So I am just wondering where you learned these things.
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Earthling
David Henson
If you don't want to hear it you will not hear it. If you don't want to see it you will not see it. One of my first posts to you, where I mentioned removing your flag, told you this. You're looking in the wrong direction.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
All you have to do is paste the scripture that says "I will harden Pharoah's heart" means something totally different than what God said he would do. You didn't do it. That is because you simply don't have such a scripture.
And where does the Bible say there is anything wrong with the flag? You get your Bible from the Catholic Church dewd. The Catholic Church decided the Canon you accept! The Christian Bible was reproduced by Catholic Monks before there was a printing press. Your love for a Catholic book and hatred for the Catholic Church that you get it from, makes almost no sense!
Earthling
David Henson
Forget about the Church, concentrate on God. In 3 days the Church could be torn down.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Complete falsehoods!
You insist that your tiny man-made sect that was not invented till the 19th century has the truth, and the rest of Christendom is in heresy, confusion, and most is following Satanic Pagan traditions.
You are essentially propagating the depressing idea that God did a terrible job of shepherding his flock, and left every church on earth in darkness, confusion, and Satanic Paganism century after century, after century.
Then finally, in the 19th century, your proud self-righteous man-made sect was invented which condemns nearly all of Christendom, while claiming itself to have the truth.
Pride! Pride! Pride!
You are making no sense, because the first Christians were not "Bible Christians". They didn't have a Bible, most were illiterate, there was no New Testament Canon, and no printing press. They were not Jehovah's Witnesses. The Bible is a Catholic book that the Catholic Church put together at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and Hippo. The book you cherish was put together by what you consider a "Satanic, Pagan, whore of Babylon"...how do you know this "Satanic institution" chose the correct New Testament Canon, or didn't add hogwash to it?? You say, "God can use his enemies to accomplish his will". And you know he did that how??
You don't know! Pure and simple. Your pride tells you that you have the truth and the vast majority of Christendom is living in "Satanic Heresy"! You are pushing a depressing story that God is a terrible guide, and has left prayerful, diligent seekers of the truth, and people devoted to God (prayerful monks, nuns, visionaries, mystics, and Saints), in confusion, heresy, and Satanic abominations. That goes to show, God can't be trusted, and refuses to guide those who seek the truth! That is extremely depressing bad news you are promoting.
And it is based on pride, self-righteousness, and judging and condemning other Christians!
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Earthling
David Henson
There is nothing original about the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, any more than there is my own or anyone else. You are an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists. The Watchtower literature uses various sources for their spiritual growth, including the Catholic Encyclopedia and, from 1992 - 2001 the United Nations, which they strongly criticized. There nothing wrong with this, it would be foolish not to use those sources, but you and @PopeADope have a lot more in common than you might like to think. Careful when pointing your finger at others because you will always have 3 more fingers of your own hand pointing back at you.
In addition, I would point out to both of you that the Hebrew cannon, that is the majority of the Bible as we know it, was already established long before either one of your churches existed.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The difference is, i don't claim im right about theology, and my interpretation of scripture is correct.
What makes you so special and smart that you have it figured out?
Im fine respecting any traditions or interpretations of Scripture, until it becomes a depressing idea that Christ didn't guide his Church, and for centuries every Church on Earth was Pagan and Satanic.
I get upset when it becomes a depressing system of beliefs that judge and condemn other Christians who are humble, peaceful, charitable, courageous, disciplined, meek, peacemakers like Saint Francis of Assissi, who are not hurting anyone, and helping people.
Otherwise, I respect all people's beliefs, but not when they condemn or impose them on others!
Earthling
David Henson
I understand all of that. It isn't the central issue for me at this point. At this point we are discussing something much more important. You are slandering God in your attempt to reinvent him because you don't accept how he is presented in the Bible, because you have not been taught how to properly study it. You are, in effect, raising yourself above Yahweh out of ignorance.
How does the apostle Peter fit into your perception of the Catholic Church? Do you see him as the first Pope? What do you think about Acts Of The Apostles 5:1-11 Ananias and Sapphira? Did Peter kill the couple for cheating God out of the money they promised or is this just another biblical lie? And how do you justify the millions of people the Catholic church has killed over the ages?
You reject the Bible because it says God kills, but embrace the Church with a long, and well established record of killing innocent people.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I'm not thrilled about Catholic atrocities and corruption.
However, the Catholic Church has prayerful, meek, humble, devout, and courageous monks and nuns who devote their time and lives to God, sometimes dying for the faith. I believe they were closer to God than most people, and they didn't leave the Church.
Some of them lived extremely heroic lives and said more inspiring spiritual statements than the depressing, condemning, self-righteous remarks you or @Deeje ever said.
The Catholic Church has built universities, schools, hospitals, and done more to care for the poor, the sick, the hungry, and the homeless than any other institution.
I live near a big cathedral and I feel closer to God when I'm there than other places, and get a lot out of daily mass, confession, and holy Communion.
I don't reinvent God. It's just I don't embrace a book that makes him out to be a bloodthirsty, narcissistic, mass-murderer, fascist dictator, and baby killer. To me that is a BIG insult to God.
How do you know the Bible (a Catholic book) is without error?
Earthling
David Henson
The Bible isn't a Catholic book. All of the bad stuff you say about God in the Bible isn't an insult to God if it's accurate and true. You haven't responded to this post yet, have you read it? It's very important.
As I've said, the Church isn't the issue for me here, I don't want you to get distracted too much by it. They have done some wonderful things, and they've done some terrible things. I don't think that I've said anything condemning the Church, I've only expressed my true feelings about them and perhaps pointed out a few of their "atrocities and corruption," as you put it.
[ETA] Oh, and I forgot to answer your question. How do I know the Bible is without error? I don't know that because it isn't without error. It warns the reader to that effect at 1 John 4:1 "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world."
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
So, the meaning is lost in translation , God doesn't mean what it says, so when you read the Bible, you don't know what is being said, because it doesn't mean what it says.....got it!
Thanks! Thats great depressing news!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Sorry, i missed this post.... I had a lot of exposure to Judaism because my mom was a hardcore Sabbath keeper, kosher keeper, pro-Israel, Zionist, Jew lover, with stars of David and Menorah's every where.Oh. You missed something Each person is their own law - no jails. Sorry
Don't worry about it. Were you born Jewish?
I'm asking because it sounds like you were taught some good values - like to be forgiving and so forth. So I am just wondering where you learned these things.
I admire Jews and how they changed and influenced the world.
And i love Israel for keeping Muslim bigotry and aggression in check! Muslims stole that land, and stole so much land, its good to see the Jews got some of it back!
I keep an Israeli flag in my room and enshrine my Jewish heroes, pray to the Jews in heaven, and pray for God's chosen people.