vegitarians?!

cardero · Nov 26, 2004

truthseekingsoul writes: Is this sarcasm?

It is the TRUTH as I UNDERSTAND it.

truthseekingsoul writes: Or are you opposed to apple consumption?

I am not opposed to any entity consumption. I wouldn't BE surprised if someone came out with a cookbook on "How To Serve Man" in this day and age. There are some people who forget that there are entities who give up their lives everyday in order that humans should feed and survive, I just don't want their sacrifice to BE misUNDERSTOOD.

Valjean · Nov 26, 2004

Apples don't have the nervous systems that many animals have. They have no structures that would appear to function as pain receptors. Their ability to experience suffering or fear is questionable.

Inasmuch as we cannot survive without killing plants we must either conclude that it is not proper for us to survive or that it is proper for us to consume them.

Most people opt for the latter.

Quoth The Raven · Nov 27, 2004

carrdero said:
Plants are probaly smarter, they don't march off to war.

Pigs don't tend to march off to war either...

Quoth The Raven · Nov 27, 2004

If you don't want to eat meat for whatever reason then as I said before, that is your perogative.
I have personal experience with the meat industry over here; I can't obviously say with any conviction how you people do things(which I have said previously)...I can tell you that even hanging by one leg on a chain a live cow can do a hell of a lot of damage to a person, and in the end it DOES come down to one man with a knife and 1/2 a ton of cow.The only way it's completely safe to knife a live animal is if you put them in a crush like they do to Kosher kill, and they can't move at all. If they don't bolt them first for the sake of a 1c charge, then I reiterate that there musn't be much by way of the liability of the employer to provide a safe workplace in the USA.
I concede on your casein point with the animal having drunk it...I notice you stayed right away from mentioning your carcinogenic legumes though. If we're going to die from casein consumption then we're all gone - save for perhaps the Breatharians, and Carrdero's frind who lives on shadowless substances.
The liver regulates the cholesterol it produces in response to the amount gleaned from saturated fats in the diet...of course if you go overboard on the saturated fats then you're in trouble, but as I said before, you can be balanced in more ways than one.
Have a look at your starving millions and where they live. Do some research about the local politics of these areas, and see whats going on aside from the fact theres no food. There are a number of places where the aid cant get in...if it does get into the country in other places it's taken by the men in charge before it gets to the people who need it.
Do they stockpile it? Certainly they do. Do they care if it rots? No, they don't give a toss, because people from other countries bringing in food for the masses takes the control out of the hands of the people who have a very vested interest in keeping it.
Do you honestly believe that people are starving because there isn't enough food produced for them to eat, and that a lot of that comes down to meat consumption?
I've seen fruit rotting on the trees and dumped at the tip by the tonne because there was a surplus, or because people could buy cheaper imported stuff. I've seen people push over groves and groves of oranges and burn the trees because they couldn't sell the fruit for even enough money to break even. Our wheat farmers are finding it hard now, because your government HEAVILY subsidises YOUR wheat farmers (something that doesn't happen here) who have then moved into our traditional markets with an ability to sell at a price we just can't compete with.
You'll never fix world hunger, no matter what you do or how you campaign to change people's eating habits. It's not the meat...it's the politics.

Valjean · Nov 27, 2004

Druidus. What are your sources of the interesting vegetarian and animal facts on some of your posts? I'd like to communicate this info to others but, without a source to refer to, it would be dismissed as pure fabrication.

cardero · Nov 27, 2004

Seyorni writes: Apples don't have the nervous systems that many animals have. They have no structures that would appear to function as pain receptors. Their ability to experience suffering or fear is questionable.

Inasmuch as we cannot survive without killing plants we must either conclude that it is not proper for us to survive or that it is proper for us to consume them.

Most people opt for the latter.

Actually the "apple screaming" was probably me speaking (typing) metaphorically again. Food that originates from plants has to be cut (reaped) or pulled or plucked. They are no longer stationed in their NATURAL life supporting setting. I am not sure if there is any physical pain for some plants but the means for harvesting plants for food are violent (at least on our end) and when plants are taken away from their source (whether they are eaten or not) they are certainly on the road to death (perishing). The point that I was bringing out to vegetarians is that killing a animal (through violent means or not) is no longer a valid reason to become a vegetarian. You either respect the fact that all living things may have the potential to become sustenence for us or we starve.

Bastet · Nov 27, 2004

Seyorni said:
Druidus. What are your sources of the interesting vegetarian and animal facts on some of your posts? I'd like to communicate this info to others but, without a source to refer to, it would be dismissed as pure fabrication.

Providing a source would also guard against claims of plagiarism or breach of copyright from such obvious copying and pasting.

Yerda · Nov 27, 2004

carrdero said:
The point that I was bringing out to vegetarians is that killing a animal (through violent means or not) is no longer a valid reason to become a vegetarian. You either respect the fact that all living things may have the potential to become sustenence for us or we starve.

Funnily enough that is exactly what I used to say when I was to lazy to give up meat. And not wrong either. All living organisms do contain masses of potential energy, Ethiopians, kidnapped chimpanzee, and pet dog rex are included. My point to non-vegetarians is eat what you like, but I've decided not to encourage suffering and pain (to the best of my knowledge and ability), not through simply refusing to eat animals but also by refusing to fund the dairy industry for example. If you view it differently then peace and happiness to you...

godischange · Nov 27, 2004

I stopped because I just can't justify eating something that used to be living. Also, I never really liked meat. I eat a lot of eggs now. I'm vegitarian, but I don't think I could ever handle veganism. I try to eat organic eggs and milk now. Hurray healthy living! My dad and sister think I'm insane but who cares, I feel much better this way.

Yerda · Nov 27, 2004

godischange said:
I stopped because I just can't justify eating something that used to be living.

Ha, I think that is the point carrdero has been arguing against.

godischange said:
Hurray healthy living! My dad and sister think I'm insane but who cares, I feel much better this way.

Good for you.

cardero · Nov 27, 2004

truthseekingsoul writes: My point to non-vegetarians is eat what you like, but I've decided not to encourage suffering and pain (to the best of my knowledge and ability), not through simply refusing to eat animals but also by refusing to fund the dairy industry for example.

When you grow older sometimes choices dont become available. For example I no longer have the choice or luxury to boycott dairy industries, my body through thoughtless intolerance has already made the decision for me.

truthseekingsoul writes: If you view it differently then peace and happiness to you...

I think between new information (insights) and our own body response, will probably be viewing our eating habits differently every day, though that might just be my age talking.

Godischange writes: I stopped because I just can't justify eating something that used to be
living.

truthseekingsoul writes: Ha, I think that is the point carrdero has been arguing against.

Yes but..

Godischange writes: Also, I never really liked meat.

..They recovered honestly.

Yerda · Nov 28, 2004

carrdero said:
When you grow older sometimes choices dont become available. For example I no longer have the choice or luxury to boycott dairy industries, my body through thoughtless intolerance has already made the decision for me.

Fair enough, I never suggested you should alter your diet, what you eat is your business and I'm hardly going to judge you. I'm sorry to hear about your health. And yes I agree we do change or views regularly (I do anyway) but that one is a view I've maintained for a while.

carrdero said:
..They recovered honestly.

Thank you, I really feel like being called a liar today. You have really smashed the nail head to pieces with the accuracy of that comment, secretly I detest the taste of meat, and have extrapolated this to some misinformed moral agenda, where I savagely encourage people to do what makes them happy while subliminally imposing my self-righteous scheme.

cardero · Nov 28, 2004

Truthseekingsoul writes: Thank you, I really feel like being called a liar today.

Truthseekingsoul, I would never consider calling you a liar, that comment was specifically directed towards Godischange and their honest preference for not choosing to eat meat. The whole point of my conversation is that we must realize why some entities are destined to become food for others. I think entities who sacrifice their lives for our survival should be REMEMBERED this also includes the animals that are BEing tested on for our common consumer products (I do not K(NOW) how you feel about this but I am sure it would make an interesting thread). I will BE honest with you, I do not judge my food before I eat it, I thank it. Death is a part of life. Entities need to die in order for other entities to live.

Yerda · Nov 29, 2004

carrdero said:
Entities need to die in order for other entities to live.

Perfect truth yes, and I do not question that. Do cattle, pigs, chickens etc have to suffer? Maybe they do, but I'd like to find the answer before I accept it. I also understand that most crops are grown to feed these animals while millions of people starve, that upsets me.

As for animal testing, I'm undecided where it involves human benefit. Cosmetics however...

Sorry about my last post, I forget that tone is much harder to carry in writing and can see it might sound aggressive.

Cheers for your response.

huajiro · Nov 29, 2004

:jam: Go Druidus, Go!!!

huajiro · Nov 29, 2004

carrdero said:
I must reiterate again that plants are living entities. They contribute to our societies. They have PURPOSE and a soul/spirit. Just because you cannot hear an apple scream as it is BEing plucked off a tree does not make it an inferior/unintelligent entity.

Actually fruit is made for consumption, that is its purpose in life. It may just be the only thing we are supposed to eat.

huajiro · Nov 29, 2004

carrdero said:
It's true and they are very good.

Vege-hotdogs anyone? :tsk:

Ever try wheat gluten?

It is the bomb!!

huajiro · Nov 29, 2004

carrdero said:
Entities need to die in order for other entities to live.

Fruit is not a living being

cardero · Nov 29, 2004

huajiro writes: Fruit is not a living being

Yes but where they come from is very much alive. This parasitical line of reasoning will lead us no where. mangiare- to enjoy.

Actually fruit is made for consumption, that is its purpose in life. It may just be the only thing we are supposed to eat.

There is a part of me that believes most animals select this PURPOSE as well. I mean they can choose to run for president or become successful inventors but I do not think that is more important than sacrificing their own life so that we may live. Entities that give up their lives for us make the ultimate sacrifice.

Minoesj · Nov 29, 2004

Hi,

i'm also a vegetarian :jam: !

And for a very simple reason : i don't find it humane or in any sense acceptable to kill and torture fellow animals, fellow living and feeling creature while it isn't necessary.

vegitarians?!

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