-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Unconditional Love verses Conditional Rewards
- Thread starter stvdv
- Start date
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The whole pop-culture, fundigelical thing is sooo not what Jesus taught. It’s a straw man set up as the real deal. And it’s so easy to knock down. Problem is, they keep setting it back up.
nPeace
Veteran Member
You said it though, more than a few times, haven't you?
Can someone's view affect or change your view of what you have come to accept as true? No. Am I right.?
I am the same way. The Biblical God, is identified as the true God, while all other gods are no gods at all, or false.
We don't intend to offend anyone by that. That's how we see it.
If someone takes offense at that, we ask why. If your god is real, then why take offense? He/she/it will deal with the matter.
When atheist or unbelievers refer to our God, whom we consider the true and living God, as god - on a level of mythical gods, we don't get offended - we leave it to him to deal with the matter.
Don't you think, that the way it is, and that's the way it will be, until the end of the matter?
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I deleted the message you quoted after posting it, and replaced it with a shorter one.
But I was just to late, you already read it. And used it in your reply. Also God's plan.
[funny, that was what i tried to explain yesterday to you ... sometimes i vote and change vote later]
[Same now. By posting, even for a few minutes I did realize quick something I might not have realized without posting]
Actually I do believe whatever happens is God's Will, so sometimes I do realize why try to explain what I believe
Probably because I have the illusion that the world is not good, and my idea can make it better
At other days I think, come on that is just an illusion. Slowly we grow and learn more about God and ourselves
All in their own way and time.
And many times I think "that is the way it will be". And must be good, if I believe God planned it
Sometimes I forget this for a while. Reprogramming certain thought patterns takes a long time.
I know that to be true for myself, so I should not be surprised that it is the same for others
No, it isn’t. It’s referring to the “LORD”’s soul.
Use other versions.
Here, I’ll link them:
Psalm 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked; His soul hates the lover of violence.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Thanks
Psalm 11 KJV
Seems not all translations agree on this. God is great. He knows that this Bible translation fits best with my view. God knows best what to give me.
My goodness. Trying to make the Bible fit our view, is the wrong course. We need to adjust our view to fit the Scriptures.
Proverbs 6:16-19....especially vs.19. “....and he that soweth discord among brethren.”
If you misunderstand a particular verse, or if it is unclear, there are always other verses that will help reveal what the Bible really means!
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Jesus invited people in the gospel to "judge correctly" and the Bible contains an entire book called, "Judges".
When on a jury or crossing a street and looking for traffic, I judge. Non-judgmental subjectivity is destroying morals in our society IMHO.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Here we have different views about "the Lord", "soul"
Sometimes Christianity and Advaita differ too much
So we have to agree to disagree
But thank you for providing the link with just the translation that I needed
And I thank God for have me read the translation that fits within Advaita even
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Oh maybe you misunderstand, or I was not completely clear about this:
I adjust my view to fit to:
d) "Discrimination, Common Sense, Personal Experience"
g) "God", when not available
g) "My Guru", when not available
c) "My Conscience", when not available
s) "Scripture", when not available
*) "Nature", when not available
*) "Trusted Friend", when not available
*) I just surrender and accept life as it is
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Okay, understood. When I said "I do not judge people", I meant I do not judge people.
I do judge actions people make. He, I do have a little Common Sense left. Judging might have been my middle name so much I use it
wandering peacefully
Which way to the woods?
Here is a little more information on Einstein and his views on gods.
Einstein spoke of his spiritual outlook in a wide array of original writings and interviews. Einstein stated that he had sympathy for the impersonal pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza's philosophy. He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve. He clarified, however, that "I am not an atheist",preferring to call himself an agnostic, or a "deeply religious nonbeliever." When asked if he believed in an afterlife, Einstein replied, "No. And one life is enough for me."
Einstein was primarily affiliated with non-religious humanist and Ethical Culture groups in both the UK and US. He served on the advisory board of the First Humanist Society of New York, and was an honorary associate of the Rationalist Association, which publishes New Humanist in Britain. For the seventy-fifth anniversary of the New York Society for Ethical Culture, he stated that the idea of Ethical Culture embodied his personal conception of what is most valuable and enduring in religious idealism. He observed, "Without 'ethical culture' there is no salvation for humanity.
"Albert Einstein - Wikipedia
I'm sure you are probably aware of his views but others may not be. Of course there are better and more thorough sites if one is interested in depth. A lot of theists like to think Einstein was a believer and they pick out one or two quotes to imply that here is one of the greatest minds ever and he believed in God so they believe it lends authority to their arguments for theism which is totally inaccurate.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yes Einstein was a very spiritual person, that is very obvious to me
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I draw a difference between love and care. Love is approval, care is the desire of best intentions for someone. I care about people i dont love. Love is very much an agreeance and joy of somebody.
If there is a God, God would care unconditionally, and seek out the best means of getting a person to be loveable.
If there is a God, God would care unconditionally, and seek out the best means of getting a person to be loveable.
nPeace
Veteran Member
What can I say... The Bible is like no other book.
How can I say... One will know when they have found truth. At that point - the search for truth ends, and it's just a process of continuous enlightenment, and living the truth.
The Bible is God-breathed, and it's alive.
Hebrews 4
12 [God’s word] isn't only alive and active! It is sharper than any double-edged sword. His word can cut through our spirits and souls and through our joints and marrow, until it discovers the desires and thoughts of our hearts. 13 Nothing is hidden from God! He sees through everything, and we will have to tell him the truth.
I don't think I agree with this. Love is not approval. Love is acceptance. One can deeply love another's person, while not accepting things which don't meet with one's own approvals. If you only love those you approve of, or agree with, you're only loving an image of yourself, not the other.
Every person is fully lovable in the eyes of God. Them being "good" or on the right path in their lives, is not a condition for God's Love. It's already fully everyone's without conditions.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
29 jun 2018 stvdv 014 02
I agree NOT that the Bible is more special than other spiritual books. I do not demean the Bible, nor other scriptures
My Master wrote some sublime books. Each of which easily is of the same depth and spiritual wisdom as the Bible
Also "Tao te Ching" of which I just read one verse shows so much depth that I easily can say the wisdom is great
So don't be mistaken that I deleted the previous message because I thought what I said was wrong
I only deleted it because I realized that people are generally not open to let go their preconceived ideas
And more and more I understand it's unwise to share your wisdom if it is not appreciated
The Tao Te Ching says "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."
I agree that the Bible is like no other book in the literal sense. Not one book is alike, always 1 character will differ
I agree NOT that the Bible is more special than other spiritual books. I do not demean the Bible, nor other scriptures
My Master wrote some sublime books. Each of which easily is of the same depth and spiritual wisdom as the Bible
Also "Tao te Ching" of which I just read one verse shows so much depth that I easily can say the wisdom is great
So don't be mistaken that I deleted the previous message because I thought what I said was wrong
I only deleted it because I realized that people are generally not open to let go their preconceived ideas
And more and more I understand it's unwise to share your wisdom if it is not appreciated
The Tao Te Ching says "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."
Last edited:
You sound confused my friend about the 'Christian' perspective with their unconditionally loving God. Its easy. Let me help you....
God loves us unconditionally but if we don't do what He asks in a few key areas of easy to understand theology (trinity, resurrection, Divinity) He sends us to hell for eternity.
God forgives the psychopathic, genocidal killer if He repents and says Jesus is Lord.
God doesn't forgive the Hindu who devotes their entire life to helping humanity because he doesn't say Jesus is Lord
Go in peace my brother
adrian009,
I don’t understand where people get the idea that The Almighty God has unconditional love for His creation. Why would God send His son to earth to teach about God if it makes no difference what you do? Jesus taught that you must try hard to get through the narrow gate, because wide and spacious is the wide gate and many go through it, that leads to destruction, but narrow is the way to life, Matthew 7:13,14, Luke 13:23,24, John 17:3. Acts 4:12 says that there is only one name under heaven by which you MUST get saved. In the first century, there was The Way that was taught, Acts 9:2, 19:9,23, 22:4. This means that we all must follow He one way that Jesus and the Apostles taught.
Consider this; John 3:16 is considered to be the Gospel in Miniature, because it shows how much God loves His creation, still even in this Scripture we must believe in Jesus, and continue believing in him and his Father.
Consider this, did the flood prove that God has unconditional love, or just the opposite?? It is true that God does not want to destroy anyone, 2Peter 3:9, but all those who do not follow His son will be destroyed, John 20:30,31, 1Peter 2:21.
These same truths are mentioned also, in the Hebrew Scriptures. Consider Deuteronomy 7:9,10, 30:16-19. How will destroy all who worship false Gods, Jeremiah 10:10-15, Psalms 115:2-8.
Now, it seems to be true that some that are living at the time that Jesus returns to earth, that have not had the opportunity to learn about God and His son Jesus, will live on through the Great Tribulation. This group will be very small compared to the ones destroyed, Revelation 7:14, Romans 2:13-16, 9:15,18, Zephaniah 1:14-18. Jeremiah 25:27-38, is what is in store for almost all who do not Know God and do not obey the Gospel of our lord Jesus, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
29 jun 2018 stvdv 014 08
Adrian replied to my post. And I have studied Hindu scriptures, there I found this often "God Loves Unconditionally"
To find it in the Bible is for me also more difficult to understand. Although when I googled some declared they also find it in the Bible.
Adrian replied to my post. And I have studied Hindu scriptures, there I found this often "God Loves Unconditionally"
Last edited:
nPeace
Veteran Member
I was just sort of summing up the way I saw it, not trying to convince you nor capitalize on anything you said.
It was sort of a finalizing.
If one is sincerely searching, they will find. If one finds, they will know. Each one knows what they are searching for. Each one knows what they have found. That's all.
I couldn't put it any better than how it was put in the verse (Hebrews 4:12)
I was merely expressing the way I see it - nothing more.
To each his own... basically.