Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

Epic Beard Man · Jun 29, 2018

wizanda said:
Because the question can only be solved by the prophetic statements that came before it in Hebrew, as this is the source of the problem.

The Tanakh prophesied who Yeshua was, and yet people don't have the intelligence to understand it properly.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Just shown in text how this is clearly prophesied, and could explain it in so much detail to someone who is scholarly enough to listen & understand the text properly.

The prophecies state the whole world is to be deceived by this (Isaiah 29:9-14), that it is to be a Snare to come upon the nations, and since you've got an Arch Angel on a forum explaining it; thinking we'll find scholarly support is ludicrous.

In my opinion.

You're telling me an opinion but how do we know you're interpretation is the correct one?

Shiranui117 · Jun 29, 2018

No. Islam's conception of God is fundamentally based on a vehement rejection of the Christian conception of God.

wizanda · Jun 29, 2018

Epic Beard Man said:
You're telling me an opinion but how do we know you're interpretation is the correct one?

Because I was sent from Heaven, have had a NDE to confirm it, fulfill parts of the Bible (subjective), and can show systematically with tons of scriptures what is prophetically taking place in the Bible (objective).

adrian009 said:
The question is do 'we' personally see the underlying unity within different religions.

Even with the differences, Oneness (Heaven) accepts only one religion, with many different cultural, and language expressions of the same thing.

In my opinion.

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

Epic Beard Man said:
"Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the benefit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise." (Surah Al-Baqarah, 2:164)"

One of the things I liked about studying the Qur'an in conjunction with studying the Ikwan Al-Safa, is that it is mandatory that adherents of faith (as well as others outside the faith) examine the known world. Most people of faith today with no advanced education really study the science of their faith. Many often believe in their religion without contemplating some of the meanings behind certain theological concepts. With that being said, academic scholars in religious discipline are always studying various concepts in relation to the ever changing world. It is because of this very discipline that I can admire many academic scholars and their critique and commentary in religious text.

And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.
Surah Al-Bararah 2:165

Its a pleasure to meet and talk to genuine scholars. I spent time studying at a Christian theology college in my city. There will often be gems of insight gleaned from the text that are like precious stones.

To be learned in both the sciences and religion is a precious gift.

John53 · Jun 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
Christians and Muslims live in peace as neighbours and in the work place in many countries. Perhaps avoiding talking about their differences is one way of dealing with the differences, especially if it can't be done in a respectful manner.

Bad wording on my part, I meant Christians can't reconcile amongst the various Christian denominations , same with Muslims (eg Sunni v Shia).

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

wizanda said:
Even with the differences, Oneness accepts only one religion, with many different cultural, and language expressions of the same thing.

In my opinion.

I'm having a little trouble making sense of what you are saying.

What is Oneness?

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

John53 said:
Bad wording on my part, I meant Christians can't reconcile amongst the various Christian denominations , same with Muslims (eg Sunni v Shia).

That makes much more sense thank you. How can they be reconciled with others if they can not be reconciled amongst them selves. It not enough to be a Muslim or Christian. Many Muslims and Christians have to be the 'right' kind of Muslims and Christians.

wizanda · Jun 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
What is Oneness?

Oneness is what Heaven is called in our NDE; it is the collective consciousness of the One Source...

Thus in Heaven, Lao Tzu, Buddha, Yeshua, Krishna, etc, all sit in unison; no one is arguing my book is best, as we all follow the One God...

Down here people argue over which incarnation of the same Source is best, as they're arrogant, bigoted, and naive (ego).

In my opinion.

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

Shiranui117 said:
No. Islam's conception of God is fundamentally based on a vehement rejection of the Christian conception of God.

Islam's concept of God is based on what Muhammad has revealed through the Quran. Muhammad's Teachings emerged out of an entirely different social setting to Christianity. Of course there would be differences, but why see those differences as an attack on Christianity? Although there is mention of Jesus in the Quran, it is only in a few places. Islam reveres Jesus as an important prophet as well as viewing Mary the mother of Christ as one of the outstanding woman of her day.

John53 · Jun 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
How can they be reconciled with others if they can not be reconciled amongst them selves.

That's exactly what I was trying to get from my brain to my fat arthritic fingers. Thanks.

Estro Felino · Jun 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
Islam's concept of God is based on what Muhammad has revealed through the Quran. Muhammad's Teachings emerged out of an entirely different social setting to Christianity. Of course there would be differences, but why see those differences as an attack on Christianity? Although there is mention of Jesus in the Quran, it is only in a few places. Islam reveres Jesus as an important prophet as well as viewing Mary the mother of Christ as one of the outstanding woman of her day.

It is not an attack...but you cannot deny that another religion invites us to deny that Jesus is God.

Epic Beard Man · Jun 29, 2018

Disciple of Jesus said:
Actually, what Wizanda wrote, is quite true, though he has put more meaning into the name 'god', whereas my perspective is almost the same, however the triune features Jehovah, as Abba. I still use the name God, in essentially the same manner, as he does, and, his argument at least concerning these deific aspects, can well be argued.

The differences thusly, seem to be, I consider elohim, as 'God', he seems to consider this as angels(?)
I use 'god' name to describe the forms of god, when used in plurality sense, as opposed to separating the Godhood, and , thusly, the Abba, via NT text, has form, ie God with form(s).
Any other differences are Scriptural related, afaik.

Wizanda has the names and plurality aspect of JHVH quite well formatted, imo. Theres a difference between different names, and some different beliefs, and a 'different god'.

In other words, what he wrote is scholarly, and actually contains more truth than many pastors preach.

Abraham is the patriarch of all three faiths.

Jews believe in the God of Abraham.

Jesus believe in the God of Abraham.

Muslims believe in the God of Abraham.

They all have the common core belief that there is only one God.

joe1776 · Jun 29, 2018

I voted "no" because the Abrahamic religions have prospered largely because they appeal to both the good side of human nature and the arrogant-bad side. People want to feel that they are members of an elite group favored by God.

The US military understands the appeal of belonging to an "elite group" and uses it in their advertising to recruit young men.

The Catholic Church, for most of its existence, positioned itself as the only path to Heaven. When it abandoned that stance (1960-65) to pursue a more "ecumenical" course, it made moral progress, but weakened its appeal for its more arrogant members and has been losing its "market share" as a result.

I think we humans are headed for global harmony in time, but I see religion as a divisive obstacle to be overcome.

wizanda · Jun 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
Although there is mention of Jesus in the Quran, it is only in a few places.

Not sure how many times you've read the Quran; yet personally would say about 35% of it is about Yeshua...

Plus even looking at the things it states becomes a bundle of confusion:

Was born of a virgin; yet isn't a divine being.
Breathed into a clay bird and gave it life, which is equal to what the Elohim did in Genesis; yet he isn't a divine being.
Had the power to bring the dead back to life; yet isn't a divine being.
Is the Messiah who will be an Elohim according to the Tanakh; yet isn't a divine being.
etc.

It purposely has caused confusion, to make the nations fight each other; yet can it be resolved, is still my reason for being sent back before the Tribulation.

In my opinion.

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

Estro Felino said:
It is not an attack...but you cannot deny that another religion invites us to deny that Jesus is God.

It is true that the Quran presents a perspective on Jesus that it is hard to reconcile with a conservative Christian view. For example belief in the Christian doctrine of a triune God is discouraged.

“O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.” - (Quran 4:171)

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

wizanda said:
Not sure how many times you've read the Quran; yet personally would say about 35% of it is about Yeshua...

Plus even looking at the things it states becomes a bundle of confusion:

Was born of a virgin; yet isn't a divine being.

Breathed into a clay bird and gave it life, which is equal to what the Elohim did in Genesis; yet he isn't a divine being.

Had the power to bring the dead back to life; yet isn't a divine being.

Is the Messiah who will be an Elohim according to the Tanakh; yet isn't a divine being.

etc.

It purposely has caused confusion, to make the nations fight each other; yet can it be resolved, is still my reason for being sent back before the Tribulation.

In my opinion.

The Quran mentions Jesus 25 times. Muhammad reveres Jesus and encourages HIs followers to do the same.

“Say, ‘We have faith in Allah and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus were given, and that which the prophets were given from their Lord; we make no distinction between any of them and to Him do we submit.” [2:136]

wizanda · Jun 29, 2018

Epic Beard Man said:
Abraham is the patriarch of all three faiths.

Jews believe in the God of Abraham.

Jesus believe in the God of Abraham.

Muslims believe in the God of Abraham.

The Jews believe YHVH is a name, and that he is the God of Abraham; which Yeshua said he wasn't, and that they don't actually know his father (El Elyon) anymore (Matthew 11:27).

Yeshua said he was Yahavah (Lord to Be), and that his father is the God Most High (Luke 6:32-35), as did Gabriel (Luke 1:32).

Muslims believe the Lord (YHVH) is the same as the God Most High, and don't know the differences like Judaism teaches.

In my opinion.

wizanda · Jun 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
The Quran mentions Jesus 25 times.

Mentioning his name, and contextual application of what is being stated are two different criteria...

There are whole chapters called Maryam dedicated to explaining what has come before it.

adrian009 said:
Muhammad reveres Jesus and encourages HIs followers to do the same.

Agreed, yet it goes slightly beyond revering; Muslims are meant to actually follow Yeshua's teachings as well:

3:55 And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so I will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

In my opinion.

Dawnofhope · Jun 29, 2018

joe1776 said:
I think we humans are headed for global harmony in time, but I see religion as a divisive obstacle to be overcome.

I agree to some extent.

Humanity has made enormous progress in the last century with greater degrees of international cooperaration, equality between men and women, sees humanity as one and overcoming barriers based on race and nationality. Levels of education have risen, science has made our conversation possible through the internet, democratic ideals have flourished, and governments have become more responsive to the poeple they govern.

Religion prejudice and bigotry remain a divisive obstacle for certain. As a solution we can either abandon religion or find a Faith that encourages a much more progressive and inclusive worldview. Stubbornly clinging to outdated worldviews that have long outlived their usefulness will only exacerbate the problem IMHO.

Estro Felino · Jun 29, 2018

wizanda said:
Even with the differences, Oneness (Heaven) accepts only one religion, with many different cultural, and language expressions of the same thing.

May I say something, wizanda?
I find your belief slightly contradictory, because, on one hand, you say that God is Oneness and transcends cultures (very true)

On the other you take the OT seriously, which is 60 % mythology...so, mainly based on a distorted vision of God.

oh...in my opinion..of course.

Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

Yes

No

Possibly

I don't know

Bearded Philosopher

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee

One Accepts All Religious Texts

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Non-Proselytizing Baha'i

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i

I go leaps and bounds

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One Accepts All Religious Texts

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i

One Accepts All Religious Texts

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i

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