Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Not everyone who believes in a "God" believes in the concept of Satan, which I believe is a Christian concept.SoulTYPE01 said:
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The Devil
- Thread starter Green Gaia
- Start date
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
We have energies within us that we name. We can use these energies for good or evil. Your reaper dreams could be your naming an energy within you.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Well, I wouldn't put it that way. But it's certainly true that a lot of people do not believe it is divinely inspired.SoulTYPE01 said:
We don't allow either to take place on this forum, even towards people begging for it.
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
Energy is energy you can choose to use it for good or evil. Your choice.SoulTYPE01 said:
FyreBrigidIce
Returning Noob
SoulType,
I am new to this forum as well and I have noticed that this is a very fair and open place to discuss, debate and learn. I used to participate in debates on MSN a few years back. I got tired of the drama of having everyone purposely trying to tick off everyone else. In today's society and with all the history we have seen, you would think that people would be more diverse and mature enough to discuss their differences without personal attacks. That may not happen everywhere for a long time but at least it can be done here.
As to the question at hand, I do not beleive in the devil or Satan. I beleive there are negative energies that everyone has the choice of using to harm others or for personal selfish acts or they can choose to convert the negative energy into something positive. We must also remember that some people may do bad things on purpose or there may be medical reasons or an event in their life that has caused them to not know how to control their negative energies. To me Satan or the devil is a Christian concept made by man to gain control over mass populations. A very compelling man who was very literate to write about "supposed" events of Christianity. Maybe the events are true, maybe they are not. We probably will never know for sure. None of us were there to prove or disprove any theory about whether the Bible is truth. As I have seen said, I have my beleifs and everyone else has theirs. Life is too short to condmen others for not beleiving what you believe and I think other religion debate forums forget that.
I am very glad that this is one is different and we can all state how we feel as long as we respect everyone else that posts.
Brightest Blessings to everyone!!
Brandy aka FyreBrigidIce
I am new to this forum as well and I have noticed that this is a very fair and open place to discuss, debate and learn. I used to participate in debates on MSN a few years back. I got tired of the drama of having everyone purposely trying to tick off everyone else. In today's society and with all the history we have seen, you would think that people would be more diverse and mature enough to discuss their differences without personal attacks. That may not happen everywhere for a long time but at least it can be done here.
As to the question at hand, I do not beleive in the devil or Satan. I beleive there are negative energies that everyone has the choice of using to harm others or for personal selfish acts or they can choose to convert the negative energy into something positive. We must also remember that some people may do bad things on purpose or there may be medical reasons or an event in their life that has caused them to not know how to control their negative energies. To me Satan or the devil is a Christian concept made by man to gain control over mass populations. A very compelling man who was very literate to write about "supposed" events of Christianity. Maybe the events are true, maybe they are not. We probably will never know for sure. None of us were there to prove or disprove any theory about whether the Bible is truth. As I have seen said, I have my beleifs and everyone else has theirs. Life is too short to condmen others for not beleiving what you believe and I think other religion debate forums forget that.
I am very glad that this is one is different and we can all state how we feel as long as we respect everyone else that posts.
Brightest Blessings to everyone!!
Brandy aka FyreBrigidIce
Colin_Admin
Member
i see most people agree in its just a metaphor
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Rex_Admin said:
That quote is the only reference to Lucifer in the canonical Bible. And most biblical scholars agree that it refers to the King of Babylon, not Satan/the Devil.
I've heard that there are appocryphal texts that spell out Satan's fall. Was wondering if anyone here might know about them.
croak
Trickster
Muslims believe that Lucifer, Satan, Shaitan, Iblis, etc. was not an Angel, but a Jinni. The Jinn were created by Allah and are made from smokeless fire. Shaitan was present when Allah asked the Angels to prostrate to Adam, but but he was arrogant and refused to prostrate, boasting that he was made from fire, while Adam was made from clay. He asked Allah to allow him to decieve mankind, to show Him how untrustworthy and bad humans were. Allah accepted, saying he would live till the Day of Judgement.
Jinn can possess people, but only rarely.
Also, Angels cannot disobey Allah.
Jinn can possess people, but only rarely.
Also, Angels cannot disobey Allah.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
RearingArabian said:
Perhaps he was arrogant. Perhaps he was too devout. If I remember correctly, Iblis refused to bow to Adam, saying that he would only prostrate himself before God. In other words, he would recognize no other gods. It's certainly different from the Christian view of the story.
I can't say I have ever heard this before, that is that Iblis wouln't bow to any other than God. I've always heard it as he was arrogant and believed that he was a better creation than Adam and therefore refused to bow down. Besides if Iblis was such a devout follower of God, that he wouldn't bow to any other, one would think that Iblis would certainly bow if God had given him a dirrect order to bow.lilithu said:
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
_salam_ said:
It is admittedly a minority interpretation, put forth by Sufi mystics. The most famous would be al-Hallaj but also, al-Qozat. I learned it at different times from my instructors, William Chittick and Osman Bakar, who were both students of the mystic Seyyed Hossein Nasr. The Sufi path of love is to invert the traditional meanings of symbols in order to transcend them.
As for why Iblis did not obey even when God gave him a direct order, Nasr says that Iblis loved God more then Iblis loved God's sovereignty. And while God punished Iblis for his disobedience, God also loved Iblis for his devotion. In some ways, it is a tragic love story. I don't expect orthodox Muslims to accept such interpretations. I throw it out there as an alternative interpretation. It is the one that I learned first, and the one that speaks to me.