Does there exist a "chosen" people in the eyes of God

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 32

dfnj said:

do you believe there exists a "chosen" people and if so who are they?

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No. Definitely not. I do believe it some people in a particular region happen to believe so, and write those things in a Book. I call it narcissism IMHO

dfnj said:

And if not, do you believe God loves each of us as equals in the eyes of God

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Yes, I like this much better. I choose "altruistic love" above "narcissistic love" any day IMHO

dfnj said:

Does God love some people more than others

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No, that would degrade "unconditional love" IMHO

wizanda said:

There are certain things God finds pleasing as they're the right Way to be, and thus some people do get more favor due to their overall character.

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A few examples might be enlightening here:
1: Donald Trump seems to get 1 million dollars for every lie he utters; seems DT has lots of favors coming due to "his overall character"???
2: Many "bad" guys seem to get away very easy with it + with the money. If God is in control .... or is God not ... or God just witnesses

3: A personal experience witnessed first hand for 3 years:
1 crazy dude, thrown on the street as baby by his mother, was picked up by a `random` guy who abused him all his life. My Master gave him Carte Blanche in the ashram expressing his anger for 3 years. I asked the security man once. He told me "Sai Baba told us, this boy is of limits, I take care of him, let him do whatever he does". This still moves me to tears remembering this today. God knows all, so He knows best, even if it seems stupid to us. Better not judge God IMHO.

stvdv said:

1: A certain Donald Trump seems to get 1 million dollars for every lie he utters; seems DT has lots of favors coming due to "his overall character"???

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Many religions say here is near Hell, with this realm being a place of desires, and delusion (Maya), of course people will have demons....

Yet those who are chosen to make it into the next age are being tested currently.

stvdv said:

If God is in control .... or is God not ... or God just witnesses

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The CPU just processes, and outputs; it doesn't take.... Tho everything is accounted, and everything will be repaid.

In my opinion.

dfnj said:

I've always wondered about the idea of a "chosen" people. It seems to me the idea of a "chosen" people has been used to justify empire building and invasion by scapegoating or labeling other people as sub-humans not worthy of being sacred in the eyes of God. So my question for the good people participating in these forums is do you believe there exists a "chosen" people and if so who are they? And if not, do you believe God loves each of us as equals in the eyes of God? Does God love some people more than others?

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Love is unbounded. The chosen ones are those who choose to believe.

dfnj said:

Every person on the planet is ultimately the great great great great...grandson or granddaughter of the very same two father and mother.

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Not Adam and Eve though, Mdna Eve and Y-Chromosomal Adam lived around 100,000 years apart.

Also here is a wiki on just a few of the religions claiming to be gods chosen people
Chosen people - Wikipedia

There is no chosen race, but there are plenty of claimants.

The God of Israel chose the Jews through whom he offered salvation for all. Through them He made Himself known through a covenant. Though this may be the time of the Gentiles, they either remain the first chosen or God is a liar.

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 44

ChristineM said:

Not Adam and Eve though, Mdna Eve and Y-Chromosomal Adam lived around 100,000 years apart.
Also here is a wiki on just a few of the religions claiming to be gods chosen people
Chosen people - Wikipedia

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I like it that you provide us with some handy links now and then. Information about the chosen people I really like. That means all religions are wrong, if atheists or humanists are the chosen people. Very interesting thought. And they all think by making wars and fighting each other about "my way is the highway" makes them "the chosen one" it seems like, because that is what they do. I think they never think......

100.000 years apart. Now that is new also. Are you sure this is true [did not see it in above link [but I trust you enough it must be somewhere on the Big Web and not coming from your big thumb]? Trick question though!

pcarl said:

The God of Israel chose the Jews through whom he offered salvation for all. Through them He made Himself known through a covenant. Though this may be the time of the Gentiles, they either remain the first chosen or God is a liar.

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No

God is not a liar, but fallible egocentric humans often make claims, and of course, lie to themselves concerning their exclusive self-importance in God's eyes.

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 45

dfnj said:

I've always wondered about the idea of a "chosen" people

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I always was wondering "pretty arrogant those people who believe this. I do hope God chooses them all and put them together somewhere far from me". I might rather choose Hell then being in the same place as the so called "chosen people". Because they are a real ticket to "Hell" IMHO.

People who claim this, I believe that they never gave this a second thorough thought.
Hitler also thought that Aryan race was the superior race.
Whenever someone claims to be "chosen" I see Hitler being kind of incarnating on the spot.
And if you don't like my pictures, just don't think that way, or at least don't inform me of it
Because I don't like to be reminded of that neighbor of mine, not in a 100.000 years
@dfnj: to avoid misunderstanding. This has nothing to do with you. Very important post is this

stvdv said:

27 jun 2018 stvdv 013 44

I like it that you provide us with some handy links now and then. Information about the chosen people I really like. That means all religions are wrong, if atheists or humanists are the chosen people. Very interesting thought. And they all think by making wars and fighting each other about "my way is the highway" makes them "the chosen one" it seems like, because that is what they do. I think they never think......

100.000 years apart. Now that is new also. Are you sure this is true [did not see it in above link [but I trust you enough it must be somewhere on the Big Web and not coming from your big thumb]? Trick question though!

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Cheers, genetic adam and eve is not new, dna analysis has been public for a few years. Over the years the estimates from mitochondrial eve and y chromosome adam have been refined.

Genetic 'Adam' and 'Eve' Uncovered

shunyadragon said:

No

God is not a liar, but fallible egocentric humans often make claims, and of course, lie to themselves concerning their exclusive self-importance in God's eyes.

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The 'claim' is rooted in the unconditional, irrevocable, eternal covenant God make with Abraham.

dfnj said:

I've always wondered about the idea of a "chosen" people. It seems to me the idea of a "chosen" people has been used to justify empire building and invasion by scapegoating or labeling other people as sub-humans not worthy of being sacred in the eyes of God. So my question for the good people participating in these forums is do you believe there exists a "chosen" people and if so who are they? And if not, do you believe God loves each of us as equals in the eyes of God? Does God love some people more than others?

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Reasonable questions imo.
I was thinking about life, and how that can help us answer these questions. Some may say, 'Well, God is not man.' which is true, but I am considering it more in principle.

Family
A father usually loves all his children the same (I'm thinking of a fair parent here)
Say the father has to go out, and leave the children, or he has to go in his workshop to do some work. He might decide to give responsibility to one or two of the children, to look after, or even care for the other - just to make sure things don't get out of hand.
He chooses one, not because he loves the others less, but because he feels they are more responsible, and would likely get the job done.

Government
When hiring law enforcement, and other personnel, selection is done - or should be done - based on the fact that the person meets certain qualifications, not because one favors one person over another.

If one has a project to build a very complex system, they usually would use responsible and/or qualified individuals because they want the job done well - to be a success.
They don't choose based on the fact they like one person better than the other.

I see God's dealing with people throughout history, in the same way.
Persons needed to meet his standards, and they were used, or certain persons were given responsibility in so that things would take place orderly.
The Bible says God has a purpose, and an arrangement was in place, to accomplish this purpose.
His choosing however, was for the benefit of all.
Genesis 22:18

and through your offspring, all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

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pcarl said:

The 'claim' is rooted in the unconditional, irrevocable, eternal covenant God make with Abraham.

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This remains a claim based on 'faith,' and by fallible humans.

ChristineM said:

Cheers, genetic adam and eve is not new, dna analysis has been public for a few years. Over the years the estimates from mitochondrial eve and y chromosome adam have been refined.
Genetic 'Adam' and 'Eve' Uncovered

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Thank you for giving this link. That feels much better, humans already 200.000 years on earth instead of 6000 years. I could never believe in only 6000 years.

dfnj said:

I've always wondered about the idea of a "chosen" people. It seems to me the idea of a "chosen" people has been used to justify empire building and invasion by scapegoating or labeling other people as sub-humans not worthy of being sacred in the eyes of God. So my question for the good people participating in these forums is do you believe there exists a "chosen" people and if so who are they? And if not, do you believe God loves each of us as equals in the eyes of God? Does God love some people more than others?

Click to expand...

God's chosen people is Israel, however that boils down to who is Israel. Just like Paul ever put, not all descendants of Abraham are Jews and even to the Jews God ever put "Jacob I liked, but Esau I hated". It means that not every Jew by bloodline can be deemed as a Jew by the coverage of God's covenant.

Moreover, chosen means God can save someone beyond the bounding of a covenant. Jesus earned the salvation of humans qualified by a covenant, and those "chosen" witnesses. For an example, David is murderer and an adulterer even by the Law of Moses. He however is saved as a chosen witness (a prophet) of God. It is so because human witnessing and testimonies by eyewitnesses is a necessity for the carrying forward of God's salvation agenda. Without eyewitnesses' testimonies there's no legitimate account of human witnessing to testify for God's salvation. To put it another way, chosen witnesses are a necessity in the process of bringing salvation across the whole timeline of humanity. Thus it is legal (by Law and covenants) for God to chose His own witnesses to spread the salvation message for the rest of humans to get informed of. These predefined set of humans can be saved beyond the requirements specified in any covenant. Jesus has earn the right to save these predefined amount of humans even under the circumstance that they are unsavable by the bound covenant.

Then it happened that the whole Israel was chosen to be God's witnesses for the rest of humans to get to His message of salvation. So in the end the whole Israel can be savable this way, however not every Jew by bloodline is a Jew in God's dictionary.

I may try to highlight what a male Jew is in today's world.

A Jew (by covenant) is,
1) he must be a Jew by bloodline
2) he must be circumcised on the 8th day of birth (today's practice is from the 8th day till several months after birth)
3) he must choose with consent to abide by the Mosaic Law (today only the Orthodox Jews still try to abide by the Mosaic Law)
4) he must not try to stand in the way of Christianity (as today Judaism won't save but only Christianity saves)

stvdv said:

Thank you for giving this link. That feels much better, humans already 200.000 years on earth instead of 6000 years. I could never believe in only 6000 years.

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Only 6000 (ish) years is impossible.

stvdv said:

Thank you for giving this link. That feels much better, humans already 200.000 years on earth instead of 6000 years. I could never believe in only 6000 years.

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Why not? Why are you so ready to believe the other?

nPeace said:

Why not? Why are you so ready to believe the other?

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Because my Master said that Rama lived 20.000 years ago. Nice to hear my Master told the truth.

My experienced is that Masters have more sense of humor than most people can stomach
They tell you things, and so easily you hear what you want to hear. Seen it so often.
That is why I can't belief the Bible blind. I have too much experience with my Master
I am glad He did write quite a few books Himself. So they are closest to the truth
When people hear, and write it a few weeks later, mostly story changes already significantly
Unless you have audio recording of course

Best is to have your own experiences, is my experience
But even these can fool you. But that is life anyway
Also a nice challenge to sharpen your intellect and common sense

dfnj said:

I've always wondered about the idea of a "chosen" people. It seems to me the idea of a "chosen" people has been used to justify empire building and invasion by scapegoating or labeling other people as sub-humans not worthy of being sacred in the eyes of God. So my question for the good people participating in these forums is do you believe there exists a "chosen" people and if so who are they? And if not, do you believe God loves each of us as equals in the eyes of God? Does God love some people more than others?

Click to expand...

When I think or imagine a 'Chosen People' I ask my self chosen for what and to what ends? And while many claims exist to be part of that wannabe Chosen humanity, I can see no example among the religious milieu of history, that would meet ends consistent with the ultimate justice of the Biblical God.

stvdv said:

Because my Master said that Rama lived 20.000 years ago. Nice to hear my Master told the truth.

My experienced is that Masters have more sense of humor than most people can stomach
They tell you things, and so easily you hear what you want to hear. Seen it so often.
That is why I can't belief the Bible blind. I have too much experience with my Master
I am glad He did write quite a few books Himself. So they are closest to the truth
When people hear, and write it a few weeks later, mostly story changes already significantly
Unless you have audio recording of course

Best is to have your own experiences, is my experience
But even these can fool you. But that is life anyway
Also a nice challenge to sharpen your intellect and common sense

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Of course, I would not want you to believe the Bible blindly. That's called gullibility, is it? I don't think there is any institute that would give someone a certificate for being gullible - unless it was marked "DUNCE".
I believe we should do what one very humble man said here:
Dear friends, don't believe all people who say that they have the Spirit. Instead, test them. See whether the spirit they have is from God, because there are many false prophets in the world. - 1 John 4:1

That's what has convinced me that the Bible is true.
When I check it with history, it seems to align.