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Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
I believe it will be revealed that there is no evidence to support that view.

I believe if the "He" you are referring to is Jesus that the statement is false.

I believe the text does not say that.

I believe the "then is not immediate and I don't remember who gave the Spirit of Truth so maybe you can find that for me.

I believe if you mean the Paraclete when you say "it" then you are correct but it does appear in prophecy.
We believe differently. Most likely since I am not of the orthodox (catholic) ideology. I believe that they with Rome created much of the confusion after the reformed church (40AD) between Peter and Paul. The Incident at Antioch created the division between orthodoxy (monotheists) and Gnosis (dualism). This happened since the Holy Spirit wasn't given to man until Jesus was glorified (arose) as I mention above.

Jesus clearly says that the Jews were NOT following the true God. If they had, there was no reason for Jesus to come. As 1 John says, he was the truth, no one before him was.

So yes, we see differently.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
I believe Jesus did say "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" so already God is more than just truth and the text does say that the Word is God.
God has never talked to man. No man has ever heard his voice.

Jesus was a mouthpiece. Jesus died. Christ arose. The Spirit of truth teaches truth to those who become a Christ as well. The word Christ just means "anointed by the Spirit". The Spirit made a Christ out of Jesus. It makes a Christ out of us. It speaks what the Father tells it to. You can hear the Spirit. You cannot hear the Father.

This is all gospel written. The orthodox believe differently because they add the flesh, it's ways to spiritual truth in an attempt to make men see them, instead of the spirit. Jesus never taught physical (fleshly) rituals. But the orthodox have their share. Jesus spoke spirit. Not flesh.

It took me over 40 years to see it. But once you do, it all becomes clear.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
The Word/Logos is the operating system; the CPU (God Most High) processes it.
So, El Elyon is the CPU?


Yeah Revelation states this, that 24 Elders (Elohim/Arch Angels), throw down their Crowns to the Lamb, who is ruler in Heaven; yet God Almighty (El Shaddai) is seen as separate still, and the Source of reality.
I can agree with this statemen
Tho agreed God can do what it wants; there are some aspects of quantum physics where when we go beyond the physical matter, antimatter, infinity, chaos, and the edge of the Matrix we exist within; imagine if an infinite being comes into a finite realm, the finite then mingles with the infinite, which is what is prophesied at the very end in many religions...

Reality its self will disintegrate, as the CPU that did manifests it from a place beyond reality, comes into this realm (Dissolution).
Including in Revelation.


We get the Divine Council from places like Psalms 82, Revelation, there are many references to the Hosts of Heaven, and Elohim originally referred to the Divine Council.

If you do a Google search there are many scholars coming to similar conclusions, that Judaism after the Babylonian Exile dropped the idea, and has taught the world contrary to the text.
The hosts of Heaven are believers resurrected to join Jesus in Heaven. IMO


Never said God can not do something, said it is impossible, an Arch angel exists in a infinite state with infinite potential, and you want to take a dynamic soul, to fit it into a finite body with limited potential.... A small part of that can exist in one linear timeline.
Impossible for man and Physics is not impossible to God including fitting an Arch Angel into human form, making such a spirit limited only by the will of the human brain. Thus miracles.



Have already shown that Yeshua was already YHVH before incarnating here.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)
Which doesn’t mean he could not lose the state of being YHWH if he violated God’s will.


Unfortunately with a very limited understanding of infinity, that is easily assumed; when you know that God directs things, even before you're born to make your course move a certain way, we can't avoid it.
That is your belief. Others believe that man has free will to obey God or not. If we follow God’s plan what you say is true. If we make a wrong decision we can take another path. We are known in the womb but obedience is our choice.



It wasn't a metaphor, it is using complex terminology to define what takes place in reality...

The CPU manifests the coders, who in turn give us the understanding of things beyond our limited comprehension in a finite perspective.

In my opinion. :innocent:
In computer programing Coders write the operating system which controls the CPU in how it runs the programs. If you want to say that God the Father is the coder, I can agree with the analogy. If you insist that the CPU is God the Father and makes coders, your analogy breaks down and I cannot agree.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
The Word/Logos is the operating system; the CPU (God Most High) processes it.
So, El Elyon is the CPU?


Yeah Revelation states this, that 24 Elders (Elohim/Arch Angels), throw down their Crowns to the Lamb, who is ruler in Heaven; yet God Almighty (El Shaddai) is seen as separate still, and the Source of reality.
I can agree with this statemen
Tho agreed God can do what it wants; there are some aspects of quantum physics where when we go beyond the physical matter, antimatter, infinity, chaos, and the edge of the Matrix we exist within; imagine if an infinite being comes into a finite realm, the finite then mingles with the infinite, which is what is prophesied at the very end in many religions...

Reality its self will disintegrate, as the CPU that did manifests it from a place beyond reality, comes into this realm (Dissolution).
Including in Revelation.


We get the Divine Council from places like Psalms 82, Revelation, there are many references to the Hosts of Heaven, and Elohim originally referred to the Divine Council.

If you do a Google search there are many scholars coming to similar conclusions, that Judaism after the Babylonian Exile dropped the idea, and has taught the world contrary to the text.
The hosts of Heaven are believers resurrected to join Jesus in Heaven. IMO


Never said God can not do something, said it is impossible, an Arch angel exists in a infinite state with infinite potential, and you want to take a dynamic soul, to fit it into a finite body with limited potential.... A small part of that can exist in one linear timeline.
Impossible for man and Physics is not impossible to God including fitting an Arch Angel into human form, making such a spirit limited only by the will of the human brain. Thus miracles.



Have already shown that Yeshua was already YHVH before incarnating here.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)
Which doesn’t mean he could not lose the state of being YHWH if he violated God’s will.


Unfortunately with a very limited understanding of infinity, that is easily assumed; when you know that God directs things, even before you're born to make your course move a certain way, we can't avoid it.
That is your belief. Others believe that man has free will to obey God or not. If we follow God’s plan what you say is true. If we make a wrong decision we can take another path. We are known in the womb but obedience is our choice.



It wasn't a metaphor, it is using complex terminology to define what takes place in reality...

The CPU manifests the coders, who in turn give us the understanding of things beyond our limited comprehension in a finite perspective.

In my opinion. :innocent:
In computer programing Coders write the operating system which controls the CPU in how it runs the programs. If you want to say that God the Father is the coder, I can agree with the analogy. If you insist that the CPU is God the Father and makes coders, your analogy breaks down and I cannot agree.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
But everyone can listen after the dishes are done. What can't wait? Wouldn't it be more profound if he actually got up off the couch and helped out?
Perhaps Jesus felt dinner could wait. The word of God was more important to living this life.
And yet they don't really mention much in the stories they tell. Jesus is a lot like God in the bible: starts off as supposedly the Main Character but is left with just cameos by the end.
Jesus is the main Character in the Gospel’s. What they say of him makes him and his teaching primary, If you read them. The letters that comprise most of the Greek Scriptures are the apostles explaining things to believers.
No, they committed to political infighting while hostile forces wanted control of the land.
God defended Israel as long as the rulers & people obeyed Him, Their infighting and vulnerability happened because they strayed with everything from murder by conspiracy to Idolatry.
Because Judaism was Hellenizing prior to Rome and Rome made the Greeks look like amateurs and broadening one's horizons was seen as being some sort of blood traitor or something even though by that point probably no one was "purely Jewish" by then anyway. You might, if you can get past the horrible formatting and walls of text, want to read this book. The bible simply can't be properly read without knowing the situation "on the ground" as discovered through history and archaeology.

When I can afford it I will get the book. What I know of Archaeology, it has proved most of the Hebrew scriptures.

From the wiki about it:

So, there were other motives besides Jewish protests.

Romans even before the destruction of the temple raided it for supplies and treasure, like Pompeyand such.
It doesn’t change the fact that the Jewish uprising had something to do with the destruction..
He didn't give the first person to eat the magic fruit a rule to follow. She had to learn it from Adam or something because the rule predates her creation.
Eve didn’t have the will to come against the snake’s misuse of what God had told Adam. And Adam had no excuse. The pair thought they would hurry God’s plan for them up. God said no to one thing and they couldn’t leave it alone.
He doesn't have to practice mind control, just basic parenting 101. You don't leave the kids alone with the chips and become shocked to see chip dust all over their faces.
Besides they were not children.
So the people who most need His assistance are just out of luck. Maybe they reject God because He didn't help them instead of God not helping because He was rejected.
Because there is parental guidance that goes with his help, It is despite His help that they rejected Him.
Did Jesus own any of the livestock or trees he killed when walking around preaching?

Isn't setting yourself up as the "keeper of the keys" when Jesus himself calls you "Satan" fraud?

Weren't people murdered, I'm sorry, "victims of the Lord's wrath" *coughcough*?

Isn't Judas framed for something that had to be done in the first place and no one should've known about because the meetings were supposedly secret?

Did Christianity not go hog wild after legalization, burning books and buildings and killing people, etc?
1.God owns everything as His only Son Jesus does too.

2. No. God always held the keys of death and hell. As the Son of God Jesus would have control of them. Satan is not given the keys as far as I know from my reading of the Bible.

3. The victims of God’s wrath who died had lived lying to the Spirit of violating God’s law. Some sacrificed their children to false gods.

4. Judas wasn’t framed. He betrayed Jesus to the Sanhedrin. Yes, it would have happened somehow with the rascal Judas or not.

5. Being legalized was one of Christianity’s darkest days. It merged the world with the Church. It became judgmental and forced Book burnings that in the early church had been done voluntarily. The church, as it became, stopped following Jesus’ example and followed that of the world.
That is what they tell themselves instead of being honest about the real reason, and politics drove most of the issue. Paul has no problem throwing his Jewishness/Christianity under the bus when he's in trouble and touts his Roman citizenship to try to get out of jail. People loyal to Yahweh wouldn't have even considered such a "blasphemous" thing as to be called Matt or John or Peter or ... wait, where was I again?
The politics of the time was for the Roman and against the Christian. During some reigns the Christians were put in the arena with lions and tigers. Paul threw no one under the bus. The Jews politics had them working with Romans against Christians. Paul preached the Gospel to his death. He never threw Christianity under the bus.
I have no idea where you were.
So you don't believe he conquered death and sin the first time around?
Yes I do and those things will not prompt his return. He will return to resurrect the dead and save Christians from the rest of the world.
And they lived to be nearly 1000 years old. God specifically worded it to sound like taking one bite would kill them instantly. God was the one being dishonest because He reveals mere paragraphs later the VERBATIM reason God REALLY didn't want them to eat the fruit as reported by the serpent. He didn't want us to have powers like He did. The serpent can't be lying unless you admit God is lying too when He confirms it.
1000 years is hardly an eternity. An immature pair who didn’t have the self-control to avoid eating the fruit, did not have the self-control to judge either. This was proven by Cain. We still don’t have powers like He does. We have technology that mimic’s God’s powers but, we cannot walk on water without technology. You say God confirms that He lied. Provide a chapter and verse where He did that.
So everything they ate survived the trip through the digestive tract? NOTHING died in front of them the whole time?
What is that suppose to mean?
So Jesus, not Jonah, saved the people of Ninevah?
YHWH chose to repent of His malicious intent for Ninevah’s sins because The king repented of the nation’s sin and commanded the people to do the same. The spirit that fueled Jesus ran intercession for the people and the cattle of the city.
Christians also witness to believers, suggesting God isn't talking to them at all or you'd expect Him to give them an accurate membership list.
Believers follow what the Greek scriptures teach. Many so called believers don’t know Jesus Paul or Matthew at all.
Lives of the Prophets - Wikipedia

Then you know that the politics of the time killed a number of prophets.
Interesting article.
Feeding them for one meeting isn't as impressive as making sure they stay fed the next day. He goes from town to town, so who feeds the hungry while he's not there?
It says they were afraid the people who had been there quite a while would faint on their way to the town to buy food so Jesus and the apostles fed them. They were not the homeless starving masses. It might help if you would read it instead of scanning the scriptures.
His origin was irrelevant as he was an adopted Egyptian royal. He would've known what the laws were.
His origin was relevant adopted by a royal or not as was the origin of the person Moses saved.
Following Moses through the desert got almost everyone from that generation killed. I'd have told Moses "thanks, but no thanks".
The Israelites did say no thanks to Moses. Moses went to God to keep Him from killing them outright and God provided food and water. You might want to read what Moses and God went through with the x slaves.
Ancient Egyptian Law
No wonder Moses would've wanted to avoid a trial.
Your excerpt doesn’t mention the evidence required to prove murder. Nor does it describe the worthiness of a slave’s testimony. Moses certainly would have known that the word of the Israelite he saved would be worth nothing and his conviction would have been a certain thing.
Still doesn't even call her "mom".
His family thought he was crazy.
His family thought he was crazy in the early days. His brother became a martyr for the faith later. Whether he calls her mother or not, he insures that she’ll be cared for by John.
Not breathing doesn't necessarily equate to being dead. I'm an RN and such stories interest me highly.
Does one have to be brain dead to be really dead? I’m sure he hadn’t been breathing for quite a while.
And they were the ones who taught you that, yes? The people who couldn't be trusted said, "Ok, for real, you can trust us now." And you are good with that.
From them and my experience with the Holy Spirit and what it can do I’m good with that.
We are putting kids in concentration camps thanks to the "soul feeding" of the bible. Adults want to see kids bummed out about being shot at dead, which is totally legit from the "spiritual nutrition" of the bible.
What are you talking about?
Historically there were and the bible couldn't hide all the references. El, Asherah, Baal, Yahweh, Anat, Astarte ... all have references all throughout. Monotheism was attempted in ancient Egypt prior to Judaism's crack at it and both instances are largely for the same general purpose: monopolizing political and economic power over the population. Multiple gods mean multiple temples and people not necessarily coming to visit yours. So, they had to go. It would be like Disney buying Six Flags and Universal.
Baal means foolishness in Hebrew. It was a false god as were all but Yahweh They were statues that people bowed to and in some cases sacrificed children to. Wiki says what Kings says; the Jews worshiped many gods for quite a while, but it was not so before the time in Egypt, according to the Bible. And after the time in Babylon they had turned back to Yahweh. Wiki and Bible agree.
Judaism was the first to hold that morality comes from one God with unchanging laws.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
So, El Elyon is the CPU?
El Elyon means the God Most High, and is the Source of reality in my understanding, as that is the highest I've seen in my NDE.
That is your belief.
I don't really do beliefs, I've had no option; thus I just accept it.
Others believe that man has free will to obey God or not.
We have supposed free will currently to recognize God is the source of reality until the Tribulation, and then we just remove all those who don't obey...

Doesn't really seem free will if the options are not a choice; yet a mandate.
If you insist that the CPU is God the Father and makes coders, your analogy breaks down and I cannot agree.
Genesis says the Elohim (Arch Angels) designed our reality; yet reality already existed before they started designing it.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
El Elyon means the God Most High, and is the Source of reality in my understanding, as that is the highest I've seen in my NDE.
Is El Elyon the CPU in your analogy?
I don't really do beliefs, I've had no option; thus I just accept it.

We have supposed free will currently to recognize God is the source of reality until the Tribulation, and then we just remove all those who don't obey...
If we choose to disobey God’s commands we are lost. He will remove those who persecute those who choose to obey. The tribulation separates persecutors and those who choose not to persecute.



Doesn't really seem free will if the options are not a choice; yet a mandate.
You have the choice to accept or question. I choose to question what you believe. God knows the paths we may take His will and other paths. God knows the end result of each path. We choose the path.
Genesis says the Elohim (Arch Angels) designed our reality; yet reality already existed before they started designing it.

In my opinion. :innocent:
Which does not clear up my confusion over your analogy.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Which does not clear up my confusion over your analogy.
On the one hand you say God can do what it wants, and put an Arch Angel fully into a body; yet then don't understand that the CPU can make divine coders.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
On the one hand you say God can do what it wants, and put an Arch Angel fully into a body; yet then don't understand that the CPU can make divine coders.

In my opinion. :innocent:
Maybe you don't understand how confusing your analogy is. You use computer terminology yet, do not seem to know what is in control of what in computers. IMO there is one divine coder who programs the CPU. The CPU cannot train up other programere; coders; without a program to let it do so. God creates the Divine Council therefore is the Divine Coder. If you want to use computers to explain reality you are missing the mark.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
use computers to explain reality
Science is questioning if reality is simulated; where we're only just scratching the surface of multiple dimensional quantum physics...

Which personally believe are the 7 dimensions of Hell below us, and 7 dimensions to Heaven above.
you are missing the mark.
What missed the mark is divine beings telling bronze age man about complex science, as we've turned it into religions instead.

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I’ve been reading threw the Bible since I was 16. It is the same Bible you use just not twisted by an erring church.

Jesus didn’t, but Paul equates the Father with YHWH. And notes Jesus as His son. Logically, YHWH is Our Father. You are right in saying it isn’t the purpose of this thread.
Again, the thread premise is very specific. And YHWH, isn't 'Yahweh'. When someone writes Yahweh, where in scripture, it actually is JHVH, they are telling you their personal way of pronouncing that, not informing you of the actual translation.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I’ve been reading threw the Bible since I was 16. It is the same Bible you use just not twisted by an erring church.
You are getting twisted by an erring church, mixed up with my arguments. The churches, sometimes, did get things correct. It's my personal belief , that the theistic belief can be presented in triune or trinity, format, are you saying that this is incorrect? What are you disagreeing with?
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
Science is questioning if reality is simulated; where we're only just scratching the surface of multiple dimensional quantum physics...

Which personally believe are the 7 dimensions of Hell below us, and 7 dimensions to Heaven above.
What Scientific Theory are you drawing on? And what does it have to do with you drawing a comparison with something that works the opposite way of what you are trying to make sense of?


What missed the mark is divine beings telling bronze age man about complex science, as we've turned it into religions instead.

In my opinion.
:innocent:[/QUOTE]
I can understand everything except calling them divine. They were either mortal or immortal; either flesh or spirit; supernatural or natural. It is not easy to determine which you think to be true because of mixed terminology and totally backward analogies.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
You are getting twisted by an erring church, mixed up with my arguments. The churches, sometimes, did get things correct. It's my personal belief , that the theistic belief can be presented in triune or trinity, format, are you saying that this is incorrect? What are you disagreeing with?
I have a personal problem with the trinity doctrine. The Bible affirms that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. Romans 3:14 1 Corinthians 2:11, 3:16,7:40 and the like. Jesus is referred to as messiah even in Revelation. But that is beside the point a subject for another thread. I see no difference between YHWH and Yahweh. Apparently you do. It is hard to determine how to say God to you. Many churches ignore what Jesus was talking about in saying not to follow the "Jews". The Jewish traditions that overrode the Torah was what Jesus was discussing; not the Torah itself.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
We believe differently. Most likely since I am not of the orthodox (catholic) ideology. I believe that they with Rome created much of the confusion after the reformed church (40AD) between Peter and Paul. The Incident at Antioch created the division between orthodoxy (monotheists) and Gnosis (dualism). This happened since the Holy Spirit wasn't given to man until Jesus was glorified (arose) as I mention above.

Jesus clearly says that the Jews were NOT following the true God. If they had, there was no reason for Jesus to come. As 1 John says, he was the truth, no one before him was.

So yes, we see differently.

I believe your beliefs do not have a valid foundation.

I believe you need to think again. I come from a Baptist background and I am an iconoclast which for some who consider themselves orthodox means I am a heretic.

I don't believe there is any Biblical evidence for that.

I believe you haven't proven this yet and won't be able to because there is no evidence to support it.

I believe that is too much of a generalization. It was in particular those Jews who sought to kill Jesus that were not following God.

I believe Jesus stated His reason for coming which was to die and in the process pave the way for the Holy Spirit to come. another reason He gave was so He could preach the Gospel.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
Simulated reality - Wikipedia

If we're inside a massive computer, and God is the CPU; where physical beings that are not the CPU, have told us they've created this Matrix we exist within, then it isn't an analogy.

In my opinion. :innocent:
Even a massive computer must be programmed or built with logic gates (since they come in bits or qbits) to make any decision. As I understand Computers or Quantum Computers. only a program can create the matrix and the computer cannot come up with a program by itself. It must be acted on by a programmer, or a builder in Quantum Computing.
Simulated reality - Wikipeia does not mention a CPU and talks about a computer, which has been programmed, that creates a simulated environment. It makes no mention of a computer not being programmed. It is also only a hypothesis at this stage with no proof possible according to the article. Hardly a fact to be accepted.
 

Avoice1C

the means are the ends
You are getting twisted by an erring church, mixed up with my arguments. The churches, sometimes, did get things correct. It's my personal belief , that the theistic belief can be presented in triune or trinity, format, are you saying that this is incorrect? What are you disagreeing with?
As I understand it what we call the Old Testament, Is the Torah, the Prophets and, I cannot remember what they are called, the rest of the OT scriptures. The Torah is the first 5 books of the OT, or as I call them, the Hebrew Scriptures.

What I believe is that God’s original purpose for man was that he become mature enough to become like Jehovah. Thus, Jehovah would no longer be alone. Therefore, Jesus, who showed said maturity, became like Jehovah; God.

I can pull a hundred scriptures in which Jesus is separate from God the Father. God’s spirit is what trinitarians call the Holy Spirit. That is not inferred it is written.
 

we-live-now

Active Member
Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

This word is presumably translated as 'Lord'

In the English Bible, but with so many christians claiming that they should be worshipping 'Yahweh', or that they worship 'Yahweh', where does Jesus ever say to worship 'Yahweh '?

I found the primary names for "God" mentioned in the NT is "Theos", "Theou", Theon, and "theO". If you compare last word of Matt 4:4 with it's OT counterpart (Deut 8:3) one can conclude that that "Theou" is OT "Yahweh" or "Jehovah". Another verse says that "ho Theos" made the world" (kosmon). Acts 17:24 However, keep in mind there also other "worlds" as well. There is "kosmO", "kosmou" and "kosmos".

Another OT verse that astounds me says that there is "ONE" who is ABOVE the heavens and the Earth and has to "condescend" (lower down) to see inside them. Psalms 113:6 This "one" is referred to as "Yah" only. Psalms 113:1. This is particular interesting because of the verse "I (Ego) and the (ho) father (pater) one (hen) are". John 10:30
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Even a massive computer must be programmed
Do you know cells can formulate survival strategies; where does that advanced coding come from?

Same when the Elohim created Oneness (Heaven), from random quantum nothingness; separating the light from the dark, where did they get the knowledge of how to code?

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
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