I honestly dont see how any lirturgical churches disagree with you.
If your efforts and unrighteous deeds are not a salvational issue, by what reason would god save you if you took advantage of your salvation by not doing anything for him to see why he should give you grace you dont deserve?
I listed a lot of scriptures in my response to outside post. The bible defines works "that dont lead to salvation" as righteous works; works that replace the need for faith. It means that a person uses his tradition only to gain faith in god. Its talking about using works as an idol.
Unrighteous works are not and cannot be serperated from faith (also in the list of scriptures I posted; least twenty of them). They go together. For example, jesus didnt just have faith in his father
He acted in his faith by doing his father's Will.
He didnt just pray, he actually taught by action and saved by action. Christianity isnt a coach-potato faith.
Thats why lurtitigal churches as a whole have works (the unrighteous type) as part of the salvation package, because they believe (as you) works are important, but unlike you, works comes in obedience to their father's will (like jesus) so without it, there is no reason god would want to save them.
Therebis a tiny quote I like (not from scripture): Faith can move mountains, but dont be surprised if god gives you a shovel.
Nothing is free. But no-works believer feel god just hands them salvation. No where in the bible does god save just because. Faith is an action; salvation is an action; love is an action.
Its obedience.
Without understanding that, you can undermine all lirturgical churches in the world but apart from your own perspective and point of view, you wont get it. It takes actual obedience in christ to see why works are necesary
in relationship with not in place of salvational faith
You are talking about the latter. The bible speaks of the former. Dont know how you dont see that without judging peoples salvation based on what you think they do and not what they actually do and why.
I understand where you're coming from, but it depends on whether the cross of Christ paid for human sin--the Bible says it did in many hundreds of verses and passages--or whether we pay for sin, and whether grace is merited by deeds. You wrote above:
"...to see why he should give you grace you dont deserve?"
The cross of Christ, the Bible explains in many chapters, is undeserved favor we don't deserve:
From Romans 5:
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless,
Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
A judge can give a sentence or show mercy. A judge who finds a criminal guilty than pardons the criminal is showing grace. What you're speaking of, if I understand it, is that the free gift isn't free and that grace is a reward, not a gift.
I gave my children gifts when they were 1, 2, 3 years old not for favor or merit but for love's sake. They screamed, peed their pants, stole the toys of others, etc. and got gifts. I never took back their birthday gifts, demanding they show I owe them gifts. Romans 4 puts it this way:
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
Note carefully that it says: to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness
A clear statement that a saved person can have ZERO works but trust God for righteousness, salvation! Although I agree that given some time, faith and God will change a person to doing more good than before, the Bible is clear that only morally perfect people can live in utopia and that this ultimate transformation comes from trusting in Christ's work on the cross (salvation).
Further, you have a clear statement here in Romans 4 and 5 that someone saved on their deathbed, a wicked, horrible person... is saved.
I enjoy attending different churches and have attended several masses in recent years, but I can never be a member of any church that says "I must show God I deserve His gift, so that's it's not really a gift but a WAGE HE OWES ME."