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The Bible Is True...

exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Ok, now that I trolled ur attention...Is the bible true but the names, places and events have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent.

What I mean is that once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away is there a universal coherent message in the bible?
Click to expand...
The New Testament certainly has a fairly coherent set of messages, as I think any literary critic would agree, regardless of religious conviction or lack of it.

The Old Testament is more diffuse. There seems to be a lot of tribal stuff about land and warfare mixed in with the theology. But that's to be expected in view of its far greater age.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Ok, now that I trolled ur attention...Is the bible true but the names, places and events have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent.

What I mean is that once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away is there a universal coherent message in the bible?
Click to expand...

Love God, love people, do good.

There are three universal messages to begin with.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
siti said:
"Love God" (aka that thing that's bigger than you are - your family, community, planet) and "love thy neighbour" are great rules of thumb - but real life is much more complicated and nuanced than that...and like I said, we don't really need the Bible to learn that.

Like I also said - the devil is in the details. If you stick rigidly to Bible precepts because it got the general rule of thumb right you get into a mess - you start believing ridiculous things like "God hates ****" and "evolution is only a theory" and all that kind of nonsense.

So no, not really a starter book - if you strip away the "veneer" you're left with nothing more than a common human intuition - that we are connected to something bigger that includes other people and that it behooves us to temper our evolutionary propensity for taking "unfair" advantages in favour of a more ecological and social-minded approach. Its hardly surprising that just about the only thing the Bible gets right is a common human intuition. But it does provide a valuable record of how that balancing act has evolved from strictly tribal to more "globally" inclusive as we read from Genesis to (say) Paul's "one body, many parts" (1 Corinthians 12:12-27) and Peter's realization that "God does not play favourites" (Acts of the Apostles 10:34). But we have had - "God" has had - another 2000 years to further develop that positive trend.
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Nice rant.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
siti said:
OK, that's good. And I first learned about math from a "My First...." book - but I couldn't have got through University - let alone life - based on that level of understanding.
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That's why the bible offers more depth than entry level in the nuances of life's veneers.
 
Slorri

Slorri

Member
adrian009 said:
Love God, love people, do good.

There are three universal messages to begin with.
Click to expand...

Surely not Adrian.
If we pick up a bible from the shelf, it starts at the beginning; There is no "love god, love people, do good" in there. Quite the opposite.
First thing is, as suggested in the original post, the names has been altered. That is evidently so.
What people refer to as "god" is a falsification. The tanakh does not mention any god, it talks about the name Yehovah and the elohim.
There is no "god" in the tanakh. It is not a religious text. It seems to be partly historical and partly anecdotal, older stories that has been altered.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Slorri said:
Surely not Adrian.
If we pick up a bible from the shelf, it starts at the beginning; There is no "love god, love people, do good" in there. Quite the opposite.
First thing is, as suggested in the original post, the names has been altered. That is evidently so.
What people refer to as "god" is a falsification. The tanakh does not mention any god, it talks about the name Yehovah and the elohim.
There is no "god" in the tanakh. It is not a religious text. It seems to be partly historical and partly anecdotal, older stories that has been altered.
Click to expand...

When Jesus was asked about the greatest commandment, He simply quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5.

To understand the NT, we need to understand the Tanakh.

The language and culture may be different as would be expected over a period of over one thousand years, but it is the same God throughout.
 
Robert Landbeck

Robert Landbeck

Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Ok, now that I trolled ur attention...Is the bible true but the names, places and events have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent.

What I mean is that once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away is there a universal coherent message in the bible?
Click to expand...

Is it not better to ask, "once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away' has anything been revealed other than a narrative of events concerning the life of `Jesus. And the conclusion I came to, especially after years of study with the non canonical texts is yes and no. For the yes part there is much to inspire but for the no part, and this is most important as far as I'm concerned, there is no "universal coherent message' that provides a path or way for human moral an spiritual progress.

What remains missing is any understanding, as in the beginning, of that first Law and command of God given unto Adam of which he disobeyed. No understanding of the consequences of that Fall. And even whether 'human nature' was the same before and after the fall. If we don't know precisely what man did wrong that so offended God, how can we know what is right, that might allow our return to the grace and favor of God?

All that exists are the "the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning" which are the product of theology. And whether theology is even a valid human intellectual endeavor remain unanswered.
 
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Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
First comes the Pentateuch which is considered a single volume: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. Its nearly impenetrable, so many people look for shortcuts and strategies to avoid thoroughly absorbing it. The genealogies are particularly annoying, and almost nobody reads through the sacrifices in English. Sacrifices seem repetitive, and we have so many other things to think about. We have many unanswered questions like "What is an ephah and why is a particular measure used?" cause eyes to glaze over. The details of the priests clothing are impossible to follow without a picture. People therefore assume its not important or difficult. Many things in the Pentateuch are like that where the reader tends to assume its not important, so much so that reading retention is pretty low usually I think if the entire thing gets read at all. This is the first indication that its not written with just anybody in mind.
 
area28

area28

Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Ok, now that I trolled ur attention...Is the bible true but the names, places and events have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent.

What I mean is that once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away is there a universal coherent message in the bible?
Click to expand...

It would revolve around the revelation of the
highest value ... the reality of Gods love

..... the book really drags on .... but that’s the message
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Ok, now that I trolled ur attention...Is the bible true but the names, places and events have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent.

What I mean is that once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away is there a universal coherent message in the bible?
Click to expand...

I think the only Bible that is true and correct is the one that is used to create unity and harmony between people.

The interpretations that seek to divide people and create disunity and an ‘us and them’ mentality is not the true Bible. It us a misrepresentation.

The Universal message I get from the Bible is that all men are brothers. But the Bible has been misused to manipulate people against each other and for ungodly purposes such as profit and power. In that case the true purpose of the Bible becomes misrepresented and it’s true purpose hidden which was always the brotherhood of man.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Ok, now that I trolled ur attention...Is the bible true but the names, places and events have been changed to protect the guilty/innocent.

What I mean is that once all the veneer and the strange twisted arguments and reasoning are stripped away is there a universal coherent message in the bible?
Click to expand...

I consider the Bible a part of the universal Revelation that leads to the spiritual evolution and unity of all humanity, including all religions in the history of humanity 'once the veneer and the twisted [culturally egocentric] arguments and reasoning are stripped away.'

One of the questions is what you would call 'twisted arguments.' Needs clarification to separate the different arguments concerning Bible.

The extremes of Christian fundamentalism, anti-science arguments, and extreme arguments that totally reject the Bible are problematic. Realistically the Bible should be considered in the context of the times it was written.
 
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David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
That is called confirmation bias.

A recent convert to Islam, Hinduism, or almost any other religion will feel the same way and rational people ignore those claims.
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We rationalize a lot at work that's Co struction. "hey do we really need that rebar I mean look its only holding back dirt. Yes we need to do that" it is a constant.
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
shunyadragon said:
I consider the Bible a part of the universal Revelation that leads to the spiritual evolution and unity of all humanity, including all religions in the history of humanity 'once the veneer and the twisted [culturally egocentric] arguments and reasoning are stripped away.'

One of the questions is what you would call 'twisted arguments.' Needs clarification to separate the different arguments concerning Bible.

The extremes of Christian fundamentalism, anti-science arguments, and extreme arguments that totally reject the Bible are problematic. Realistically the Bible should be considered in the context of the times it was written.
Click to expand...
Its art
 
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