Domestication and the Dream of the Planet

Do you believe it is possible that we are born into a collective dream that was created by humans that came before us? I'll like to hear your thoughts on the philosophy shared in this video.


Most of us do not remember our early childhood due to the hippocampus, the part of the brain that bundles events into episodic memory, not yet being developed. Could the development of the hippocampus be what the video is describing as domestication, or does this domestication begin before the development of the hippocampus when we develop semantic memory, the memory that involves language and logic?

Here is the reason I ask...

Shortly after my daughter was born, I recall her staring at what appeared to be nothing into the corner of the room near the ceiling, fully attentive and aware of her surroundings, muttering baby talk, occasionally smiling. I would talk to her and get her attention only briefly, and she would go back to doing what she was doing. I wondered at the time what she was perceiving, as her brain had not yet developed either episodic or semantic memory, the developments of which I am suggesting here to be the beginning of our domestication.

I saw a very similar expression several years later on the face of my elder daughter as she passed away...what I recall to be the same stare at what appeared to be nothing over my shoulder, only in this instance, she could verbalize, "It's so beautiful!"

I wonder now if this are the opposite ends of the dream of the planet, the entry to, and the departure of the domestication as described in the video.

What are your thoughts?

SalixIncendium said:

Do you believe it is possible that we are born into a collective dream that was created by humans that came before us? I'll like to hear your thoughts on the philosophy shared in this video.

Most of us do not remember our early childhood due to the hippocampus, the part of the brain that bundles events into episodic memory, not yet being developed. Could the development of the hippocampus be what the video is describing as domestication, or does this domestication begin before the development of the hippocampus when we develop semantic memory, the memory that involves language and logic?

Here is the reason I ask...

Shortly after my daughter was born, I recall her staring at what appeared to be nothing into the corner of the room near the ceiling, fully attentive and aware of her surroundings, muttering baby talk, occasionally smiling. I would talk to her and get her attention only briefly, and she would go back to doing what she was doing. I wondered at the time what she was perceiving, as her brain had not yet developed either episodic or semantic memory, the developments of which I am suggesting here to be the beginning of our domestication.

I saw a very similar expression several years later on the face of my elder daughter as she passed away...what I recall to be the same stare at what appeared to be nothing over my shoulder, only in this instance, she could verbalize, "It's so beautiful!"

I wonder now if this are the opposite ends of the dream of the planet, the entry to, and the departure of the domestication as described in the video.

What are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

Very interesting and touching story, thank you for sharing it.

I can't really respond to the idea of the video...I apparently have sound card difficulties and generally lose audio after a couple of minutes...is there a written summary somewhere you can suggest/link to? It think it sounds interesting, but would like a bit more...

SalixIncendium said:

Shortly after my daughter was born, I recall her staring at what appeared to be nothing into the corner of the room near the ceiling, fully attentive and aware of her surroundings, muttering baby talk, occasionally smiling. I would talk to her and get her attention only briefly, and she would go back to doing what she was doing. I wondered at the time what she was perceiving, as her brain had not yet developed either episodic or semantic memory, the developments of which I am suggesting here to be the beginning of our domestication.

Click to expand...

That is interesting as I had a similar experience with my son when he was around two years old. I couldn't see what he was pointing to, but he was adamant that they were there. I have often thought that maybe in the innocence of such a young age ,they are more perceptive to things that we as adults are not.

SalixIncendium said:

I saw a very similar expression several years later on the face of my elder daughter as she passed away...what I recall to be the same stare at what appeared to be nothing over my shoulder, only in this instance, she could verbalize, "It's so beautiful!"

Click to expand...

As a father I cannot imagine going through that and am truly sorry for your loss. But her seeing something of beauty is encouraging to me.

Its not clear if he considers the babies to be part of the dream or separate from it until they are taught to share it. He considers need for attention to be a means of hooking people into a dream. Language he calls an agreement between people. Its not clear whether he believes in physical reality or not. He believes that paying attention to something causes us to believe in a dream, and says if we reject and do not believe then we turn our attention away.

Children do not always believe everything that adults say, but they are suggestible. They are vulnerable, and this has two effects. One is that we become very careful and loving towards them, but there can also be an opposite effect. We can love or hate them, believe it or not. Some people do hate their own children. I do not think that this fits into his scheme. Some children hated by their parents nevertheless love themselves and others, somehow. Many some are loved by their parents hate other or their parents. There is also the strangely common sight of a son joining the opposite political party from the parent and so forth.

There is strong evidence that children inherit recessive attributes. It is often noted in families that certain characteristics including personality can skip a generation. I have some things in common with my grandfather (though I barely knew him) that my father does not have in common with him. Its my personality and my tendencies, wishes and outlook which seem influenced by characteristics which have skipped a generation.

Agreement is not necessarily surrender to a belief. We do indeed judge others and ourselves and do form localized ideas about what a woman or a man is. I consider this 'Imprinting' and connect it with how chicks will consider any creature to be mother. The chemicals and neural clusters in our brains are all setup to fall in love with some thing, perhaps triggered by pheremones or other cues. Its not fully understood exactly what triggers is, but imprinting is a real thing. I think I have felt it before, and adrenaline I think is involved.

Language contains a lot of concepts and does shape us a lot. That is true!

Children are born without personal identities and are not mentally complete for about seven years or more. When he describes children becoming something other than themselves in order to gain attention, he sounds like he is describing the symptoms of a psychological disorder called borderline personality disorder. The borderline feels driven to be something other than what they are. For example they will find it difficult to express their own opinions or to choose a career or to disagree with family. This happens when something goes wrong during the formation of a person's identity during childhood. It creates a panicky feeling that is quite brutal and is crippling though the person may perform very well academically and by many standards. Not everybody has this though I suppose there are degrees of it sometimes or light mixes of it.

I think he puts too much stock into domestication. We, like other apes, have an inner sense of shame. We also feel pain when we oppose the opinions of a group. Therefore its true that people will tend to bow to the pressure of their peers, but this is not due so much to domestication as to instinct. A person like me who has not always fit in very well and is used to feeling out of place can make other people feel uncomfortable. A punk with rainbow hair and scary jewelry will make people feel uncomfortable around them. That is not due to domestication but is simply fear and pain. The punk is in constant pain and sees therefore no reason to attempt to conform, but the other people fear the pain associated with not fitting in and are therefore driven away from the punk. Domestication cannot achieve this effect.

He says that we tolerate abuse from others in proportion to how much we abuse ourselves. I think it is an interesting comment but cannot be sure if he is exaggerating. If someone hurts my feelings I don't stand there and hope for more, yet I am quite hard on myself sometimes. I have in the past turned away help from a teacher when I felt I didn't deserve it. I am not sure if he is describing a general principle however.

'Breaking the agreements made in fear' is a good idea. I recommend the book Switch as well as determining whether there are actual psychological issues which may complicate matters. That's psychology. There are also some religious branches which focus on helping curb these kinds of fear problems. Buddhists have some stuff on this. Also some of the left hand path groups in various religions focus on helping people with this.

beenherebeforeagain said:

Very interesting and touching story, thank you for sharing it.

I can't really respond to the idea of the video...I apparently have sound card difficulties and generally lose audio after a couple of minutes...is there a written summary somewhere you can suggest/link to? It think it sounds interesting, but would like a bit more...

Click to expand...

Gigamaster: Domestication and the Dream of the Planet

Start below the image of The Four Agreements.

Brickjectivity said:

Its not clear whether he believes in physical reality or not.

Click to expand...

This depends on what you are referring to as "physical reality." If you are speaking in terms of what we can see, hear, feel, smell, and taste, then you are merely describing "physical reality," as electrical signals interpreted by the brain.

Brickjectivity said:

Children do not always believe everything that adults say, but they are suggestible. They are vulnerable, and this has two effects. One is that we become very careful and loving towards them, but there can also be an opposite effect. We can love or hate them, believe it or not. Some people do hate their own children. I do not think that this fits into his scheme. Some children hated by their parents nevertheless love themselves and others, somehow. Many some are loved by their parents hate other or their parents. There is also the strangely common sight of a son joining the opposite political party from the parent and so forth.

Click to expand...

I think he's speaking in terms of predisposition. Children, for the most part, tend to make agreements with themselves to accept what their parents tell them as truth. Many of us believed in Santa Claus because we were told not to believe may lead to the end of Christmas presents. However, once presented with evidence to the contrary, most of us stopped believing (except me...I don't want to miss out on the presents).

Just because children make agreements to accept these agreements does not mean they cannot amend them or discard them in favor of new agreements.

Brickjectivity said:

There is strong evidence that children inherit recessive attributes. It is often noted in families that certain characteristics including personality can skip a generation. I have some things in common with my grandfather (though I barely knew him) that my father does not have in common with him. Its my personality and my tendencies, wishes and outlook which seem influenced by characteristics which have skipped a generation.

Click to expand...

I think the video is speaking more along the lines of environmental influence rather than genetic influence with regard to personality development. Identical twins raised in the same household under the same conditions can develop very different personalities. I think this has to do more with genetics than environment..

Brickjectivity said:

He says that we tolerate abuse from others in proportion to how much we abuse ourselves. I think it is an interesting comment but cannot be sure if he is exaggerating. If someone hurts my feelings I don't stand there and hope for more, yet I am quite hard on myself sometimes. I have in the past turned away help from a teacher when I felt I didn't deserve it. I am not sure if he is describing a general principle however.

Click to expand...

In my experience, there is truth in his statement. Here's one example...

I have a step-sister who lived for years in an abusive relationship as a result of agreements she made with herself with regard to her own self worth. She's a very beautiful and intelligent woman, but as a result of her own emotional and physical abuse, she developed very low self-esteem. Her SO put her in the hospital on several occasions, but she remained with him despite my many attempts to persuade her to leave and offering a place to live because she made an agreement that she was co-dependent and could not do any better.

Can we break free from a cycle as mentioned above? Certainly. But this requires breaking agreements one creates in one's own personal Book of Law and creating new ones.

SalixIncendium said:

Gigamaster: Domestication and the Dream of the Planet

Start below the image of The Four Agreements.

Click to expand...

Thanks, will give it a read...

When he was young, my biological son did the same thing...all the cats and dogs I've had do the same thing from time to time.

My adopted son is mentally handicapped. When my second wife and I were dating, there came a time day when my biological son needed to print some project for school. Linn had a printer that worked, so we headed out to her place (where we live now). The we were having trouble with the computer and the printer, and at the same time, my adopted son started to laugh. Hysterically. Watching him, I could see his eyes following something around the room. Eventually, I sat down next to him, watching him out of the corner of my eye, and where he was looking out of the other...relaxing my vision and seeing...

I could see something peeking out from around the table, the furniture, etc. It would peek out, then jump back so he couldn't see it. To me, it was just a small shadowy shape moving about, but it sure looked to me like it was making faces...

I was already familiar with the local spirits at the house, and I realized that at least one of them realized that my son could SEE it, and was getting a kick out of playing peek-a-boo with him.

Later, after we'd finally gotten my son's project printed, I took them back to their mothers'. I came back, discussed it with Linn, and finally sat down and called the locals in for a chat. I thanked them for entertaining my adopted son, and explained his problem, and that we would like for them to look out for him...and to please not exhaust him like that...they've been most cooperative...and still from time to time, I can see my son watching things, sometimes laughing...

I ask him if they are doing something, and he'll say yes...

SalixIncendium said:

Do you believe it is possible that we are born into a collective dream that was created by humans that came before us? I'll like to hear your thoughts on the philosophy shared in this video.

Most of us do not remember our early childhood due to the hippocampus, the part of the brain that bundles events into episodic memory, not yet being developed. Could the development of the hippocampus be what the video is describing as domestication, or does this domestication begin before the development of the hippocampus when we develop semantic memory, the memory that involves language and logic?

Here is the reason I ask...

Shortly after my daughter was born, I recall her staring at what appeared to be nothing into the corner of the room near the ceiling, fully attentive and aware of her surroundings, muttering baby talk, occasionally smiling. I would talk to her and get her attention only briefly, and she would go back to doing what she was doing. I wondered at the time what she was perceiving, as her brain had not yet developed either episodic or semantic memory, the developments of which I am suggesting here to be the beginning of our domestication.

I saw a very similar expression several years later on the face of my elder daughter as she passed away...what I recall to be the same stare at what appeared to be nothing over my shoulder, only in this instance, she could verbalize, "It's so beautiful!"

I wonder now if this are the opposite ends of the dream of the planet, the entry to, and the departure of the domestication as described in the video.

What are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

The 'seed' of that 'Dream' may very well be embedded into the human condition. Unfortunately without sufficient clarity to define the higher
aspirations of mankind, the path for the realization of a greater good remains obscured, the seed refuses to grow. And it has never been more self-evident that mankind is unable to achieve the dream by any means or measure of its own understanding, founded upon its own conceptions of value, morality, knowledge, truth and logic. It should have been the role of religion to cut though that chaos, instead 'they' are a part of it, while pretending to be otherwise.

SalixIncendium said:

Do you believe it is possible that we are born into a collective dream that was created by humans that came before us? I'll like to hear your thoughts on the philosophy shared in this video.

Most of us do not remember our early childhood due to the hippocampus, the part of the brain that bundles events into episodic memory, not yet being developed. Could the development of the hippocampus be what the video is describing as domestication, or does this domestication begin before the development of the hippocampus when we develop semantic memory, the memory that involves language and logic?

Here is the reason I ask...

Shortly after my daughter was born, I recall her staring at what appeared to be nothing into the corner of the room near the ceiling, fully attentive and aware of her surroundings, muttering baby talk, occasionally smiling. I would talk to her and get her attention only briefly, and she would go back to doing what she was doing. I wondered at the time what she was perceiving, as her brain had not yet developed either episodic or semantic memory, the developments of which I am suggesting here to be the beginning of our domestication.

I saw a very similar expression several years later on the face of my elder daughter as she passed away...what I recall to be the same stare at what appeared to be nothing over my shoulder, only in this instance, she could verbalize, "It's so beautiful!"

I wonder now if this are the opposite ends of the dream of the planet, the entry to, and the departure of the domestication as described in the video.

What are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

Karmically I do think the world is shaped by those who preceded us.

SalixIncendium said:

Do you believe it is possible that we are born into a collective dream that was created by humans that came before us?

Click to expand...

No.

Do you believe the universe was created Last Thursday?