Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
It was pretty tragic. But she is the Horde Warchief last I knew. So, it's sad what Arthas did to her, but she became even more amazing after that.
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Let's get over our fears, and let's role play a discussion in Hell.
- Thread starter Justme1981
- Start date
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Poppycock. The price for admission to Hel is dying.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
It's been so long since I played WoW. I stopped around the Wrath of the Lich King, and lost all interest when they destroyed everything in the Cataclysm.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Pretty much the same for me, though I occasionally pop my head in to see what's going on, but I barely recognized the game last I played.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Math only ever proves math. Ask any mathematician. Besides, your math was wrong anyway.
You still did not even try to show that souls are real-- and we both know? They are not.
Thus, no hell, no heaven, no god behind either.
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
Steel Reserve isn't fine.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Eww rot gut
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
yeah, that stuff is nasty.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
It's different now with Legion....But Battle for Azeroth is supposedly meant to bring back Vanilla.
outlawState
Deism is dead
I guess it's a place where people don't speak grammatically. Leave off "?" in sentences perhaps?
A biblical illustration:
Mar 9:48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.'
So a lot of irritation going on in hell. There is more on this in the Old Testamant including "loathsome to all mankind." Isaiah 66:24
Another one is "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Luke 13:28
By way of explanation for the above, it is a place where the realization suddently dawns that "one did not live one's life to the full" and indeed that "one spent much of one's time on earth frittering away every opportunity for learning, advancement, doing good and speaking good, and especially the opportunity for knowing God."
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Justme1981
Member
OK, Math only proves Math then you cannot be helped because Math also proves science, but then you say you believe in Science. Now, like Cognitive Dissonance that is Confirmation Bias. Hey, you are going to be fine.
Justme1981
Member
I don't know World of Warcraft or any of those things myself, but I know the Universe is vast and a lot of these things are based on truth. It's a dull world Atheists live in. When you tell them some fantasy may be based on something out there, they say then if it is true then we don't want to believe in it. I see everyone has their method of stress relief.
Justme1981
Member
Look, this is what I tell every Christian like yourself. You are going to end up in Hell. I know it, we know it. The problem unlike the rest of us in Hell who can bond and relate you are going to be an outsider. So, be fear based because I promise you, you will be in Hell. What are you going to do about it?
Justme1981
Member
When's the last time you had Sushi? Or Steer and Stein? Or Cracker Barrel?
Hey, if it was bad I wouldn't drink it.
What are you going to do about it?
Why does every minority chase white tail? I'm brown I like my brown women. Sad world for atheists. Hail Reverend Wright.
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outlawState
Deism is dead
You are talking incomprehensibly, into the air. What you say betrays no hint of understanding. What I would say is this: to speak intelligibly on the subject requires knowledge. In consigning every Christian to hell, you come across as a complete moron, which I know you aren't. I get the impression you're not really interested in the topic. What you really want to say is that there is no hell. That's your opinion, but why should anyone believe you?
Earthling
David Henson
Of all of the pagan teachings adopted by apostate Christianity over the ages, Hell is most certainly the most despicable. Some local Jehovah's Witnesses once approached a well known hell fire and brimstone preacher and informed him that hell was a pagan teaching unsupported by the Bible, and much to their surprise, he answered: "Oh, I know." So they asked him if he taught hell to frighten his congregation into attendance. He laughed and said: "No, I teach it because if I didn't I would be out of a job."
Modern day Christians, it would seem, use hell as a fake moral pedestal they can prop themselves upon to feel superior in some way, morally superior. They feel justified in seeing those who don't believe the same as they do burning in an imaginary place. A place that God would never have thought of as justifiable. Especially since, under divine inspiration, Paul has informed us that once we die we are acquitted from our sins, preventing any further punishment. (Romans 6:7, 23)
The English Word Hell
The old English word hell comes from a root word which means to cover or conceal. Similar words coming from the same root have a similar meaning. Hill for example is a mound of dirt or stone that covers the level surface of earth. Hull is the covering of a nut or the covered part of a ship. Heal is the covering of a wound. Hall is a building space which is used to cover people or goods. Hole is an uncovering. Shell is a covering as well.
In the early days to hell potatoes meant to cover them, as to store them in a cellar or underground. To hel (spelled with only one l) a house meant to cover a portion of it with tile. The term heling a house is still used in the New England portions of the United States. A book heler was the person who added the cover of a book.
At first the use of hell had no pagan meaning to it. It was simply used as the common grave of man. To go to hell in the old English language meant simply that one was dead and buried. It was in Germany and England that the word began to evolve into the pagan non-biblical meaning of eternal punishment.
Poor Modern Translation
The original meaning of the word hell is not so much a poor translation of the Hebrew Sheohl (English Transliteration Sheol) and the Greek Haides (English transliteration Hades), as much as it is a case of the word having evolved into a pagan meaning; the modern day translation of hell is misleading.
The Catholic Douay Version translates Sheol as hell 64 times and once as death. The King James Version translates sheohl 31 times as hell, 31 times as grave and 3 times as pit. The English Revised Version (1885) transliterated Sheol in many cases but most of the occurrences were translated as grave, or pit. Hell being used 14 times. The American Standard Version (1901) transliterated sheohl in all 65 occurrences and haides in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geenna (English Gehenna) is translated hell.
The Hebrew Sheol
The Hebrew word Sheol is the unseen resting place of the dead. It is not to be mistaken for the Hebrew words for individual burial place (qever - Judges 16:31), grave (qevurah - Genesis 35:20), or individual tomb (gadhish - Job 21:32) but rather the common grave of all mankind whatever the form of burial might be.
The Greek philosophical teaching of the immortality of the human soul and hell began to infiltrate Jewish teachings probably around the time of Alexander The Great. The Bible itself, however, is in stark contrast to the teachings of pagan origin regarding the soul, which is not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4) and therefore can't suffer forever in hell. The Bible also teaches that there is no consciousness in hell. (Ecclesiastes 9:4-10).
Sheol corresponds with the Greek Hades, both being the unseen resting place of the dead. It is not a place of fire, but of darkness (Job 10:21) a place of silence (Psalm 115:17) rather than a place filled with tortured screams.
The Greek Hades
The Greek word Hades corresponds to the Hebrew Sheol as is indicated by the apostle Peter's reference to Psalms 16:10 at Acts 2:27-31 where Jesus had fulfilled David's prophecy that Jesus would not be left in hell. Peter quoted Psalms and used the Greek Hades in place of Sheol. Likewise Jesus himself said that like Jonah, he would spend three days in hell. (Jonah 1:17 / Jonah 2:2 / Matthew 12:40)
The Greek word Hades occurs 10 times in the Christian Greek scriptures. (Matthew 11:23; 16:18 / Luke 10:15; 16:23 / Acts 2:27, 31; / Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14.
It means the unseen place. In ten of the occurrences of Hades it is in reference to death. It is not to be confused with the Greek word for grave (taphos), tomb (mnema) or memorial tomb (mnemeion), but is rather the common resting place of the dead. The place of death.
Jesus also uses Hades at Matthew 11:23 and Luke 10:15 in a figurative way to indicate the debasement of Capernaum compared to heaven.
The Greek Gehenna
Unlike the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, there is really no excuse for mistaking the Greek Geenna (Hebrew Geh Hinnom - English Transliteration Gehenna) with the notion of any hell, either the old English word meaning covered or the pagan hell of today's apostate Christianity.
The Christian Greek Gehenna is a literal place - a valley that lies South and South-West of ancient Jerusalem. It is the modern day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom), a deep, narrow valley. Today it is a peaceful and pleasant valley, unlike the surrounding dry and rocky terrain, and most certainly unlike the pagan / apostate Christian hell.
See Image attachment below: The Valley Of Gehenna
In the days of unfaithful Kings Manasseh and Ahaz idolatrous worship of the pagan god Baal was conducted in the place which was then known as Geh Hinnom, (the valley of Hinnom) including human sacrifices to fire. It is ironic that the pagan custom of burning in fire, as in hell, would have so clearly infiltrated the Christian teachings, considering that this practice was a detestable thing to Jehovah God, and his prophets spoke of a time when this place would be turned into a defiled and desolate place. (2 Chronicles 28:1-3; 33:1-6 / Jeremiah 7:31-32; 32:35).
The prophecy was fulfilled in the days of faithful King Josiah, who had the place, especially the area known as Topeth polluted into a refuse heap. (2 Kings 23:10)
So it was that in the days of Jesus and the early Christian congregations, that the valley was known as a literal place where the carcasses of criminals and animals were thrown, having no hope for resurrection. The refuse there was kept burning with sulfur, which is abundant in the area. When Jesus used Gehenna as a figurative or symbolic reference to the spiritually dead the people in the area knew what he was talking about.
The Greek Tartarus
The Greek word Tartarus is found only once in scripture, at 2 Peter 2:4. It is often mistranslated as hell. Tartarus in the Christian Greek scriptures refers to a condition of debasement, unlike the pre-Christian pagan Tartarus (as in Homer's Iliad) which is a mythological prison. The word basically means the lowest place.
Peter refers to the angels who in the time of Noah forsook their original positions and became men in order to have relations with the women of earth. The result was their offspring being giants, the Nephilim, who caused so much destruction God had to bring forth the flood. (Genesis 6:1-4 / Ephesians 6:10-12 / Jude 1:6).
It is interesting that this verse is often mistranslated because when Jesus was resurrected from Sheol / Hades (Hell in some translations) on earth, he first went to tartarus to minister to the disobedient angels whom had been lowered in position - who happened to be in heaven in a position of debasement. This means that if you don't understand the mistranslation you would see Jesus go to hell on earth and then hell in heaven.
The Pagan Hell
The Pagan teaching of hell was adopted by the apostate Christian church. Today's thinking of hell comes more from Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, but the teaching of hellfire is much older than the English word hell or Dante and Milton. It comes from Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs of a nether world. A place where gods and demons of great strength and fierceness presided over the damned.
Ancient Egyptian beliefs considered the Other World to be a place of pits of fire for the damned though they didn't think this lasted forever. Islamic teaching considers hell as a place of everlasting punishment. Hindus and Buddhists think of hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration.
Separation From God
Modern day Christians often try to soften the teaching of hell as a separation from God, but hell (as is often translated from the Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades) can't be a separation from God, since God is in effect there - it is in front of him. He watches Sheol for the time when the dead shall be resurrected. (Proverbs 15:11 / Psalms 139:7-8 / Amos 9:1-2).
Lazarus And The Rich Man - Luke 16:19-31]
Jesus often taught people in a way which was easy for them to grasp. One way of doing this is through parables, or illustration. They are stories, which are not meant to be taken as literal accounts. Such is the case with the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Notice that the Rich man is buried in Hades. If this account is to be taken literally then the Bible would contradict itself with all of the information being given in this article.
It is also true that if this account is to be taken literally then that would make Jesus a liar. How so? How could Lazarus be at the bosom of Abraham in heaven when Jesus had already said that no man had ascended to heaven other than himself? (John 3:13).
The Lake Of Fire
The lake of fire is sometimes referred to as hell. The lake of fire is obviously a symbolic reference to everlasting destruction. Since hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire they can't be one and the same. Since death is thrown into the lake of fire and death isn't something that can be thrown literally, the lake is obviously symbolic. The fact that hell and death are symbolically destroyed by fire is harmonious with the end of sin which brought death. Once sin is finally removed there would be no more death or "hell," or grave. Those not thrown into the lake of fire are the meek who will inherit the earth and live forever upon it.
Modern day Christians, it would seem, use hell as a fake moral pedestal they can prop themselves upon to feel superior in some way, morally superior. They feel justified in seeing those who don't believe the same as they do burning in an imaginary place. A place that God would never have thought of as justifiable. Especially since, under divine inspiration, Paul has informed us that once we die we are acquitted from our sins, preventing any further punishment. (Romans 6:7, 23)
The English Word Hell
The old English word hell comes from a root word which means to cover or conceal. Similar words coming from the same root have a similar meaning. Hill for example is a mound of dirt or stone that covers the level surface of earth. Hull is the covering of a nut or the covered part of a ship. Heal is the covering of a wound. Hall is a building space which is used to cover people or goods. Hole is an uncovering. Shell is a covering as well.
In the early days to hell potatoes meant to cover them, as to store them in a cellar or underground. To hel (spelled with only one l) a house meant to cover a portion of it with tile. The term heling a house is still used in the New England portions of the United States. A book heler was the person who added the cover of a book.
At first the use of hell had no pagan meaning to it. It was simply used as the common grave of man. To go to hell in the old English language meant simply that one was dead and buried. It was in Germany and England that the word began to evolve into the pagan non-biblical meaning of eternal punishment.
Poor Modern Translation
The original meaning of the word hell is not so much a poor translation of the Hebrew Sheohl (English Transliteration Sheol) and the Greek Haides (English transliteration Hades), as much as it is a case of the word having evolved into a pagan meaning; the modern day translation of hell is misleading.
The Catholic Douay Version translates Sheol as hell 64 times and once as death. The King James Version translates sheohl 31 times as hell, 31 times as grave and 3 times as pit. The English Revised Version (1885) transliterated Sheol in many cases but most of the occurrences were translated as grave, or pit. Hell being used 14 times. The American Standard Version (1901) transliterated sheohl in all 65 occurrences and haides in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geenna (English Gehenna) is translated hell.
The Hebrew Sheol
The Hebrew word Sheol is the unseen resting place of the dead. It is not to be mistaken for the Hebrew words for individual burial place (qever - Judges 16:31), grave (qevurah - Genesis 35:20), or individual tomb (gadhish - Job 21:32) but rather the common grave of all mankind whatever the form of burial might be.
The Greek philosophical teaching of the immortality of the human soul and hell began to infiltrate Jewish teachings probably around the time of Alexander The Great. The Bible itself, however, is in stark contrast to the teachings of pagan origin regarding the soul, which is not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4) and therefore can't suffer forever in hell. The Bible also teaches that there is no consciousness in hell. (Ecclesiastes 9:4-10).
Sheol corresponds with the Greek Hades, both being the unseen resting place of the dead. It is not a place of fire, but of darkness (Job 10:21) a place of silence (Psalm 115:17) rather than a place filled with tortured screams.
The Greek Hades
The Greek word Hades corresponds to the Hebrew Sheol as is indicated by the apostle Peter's reference to Psalms 16:10 at Acts 2:27-31 where Jesus had fulfilled David's prophecy that Jesus would not be left in hell. Peter quoted Psalms and used the Greek Hades in place of Sheol. Likewise Jesus himself said that like Jonah, he would spend three days in hell. (Jonah 1:17 / Jonah 2:2 / Matthew 12:40)
The Greek word Hades occurs 10 times in the Christian Greek scriptures. (Matthew 11:23; 16:18 / Luke 10:15; 16:23 / Acts 2:27, 31; / Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14.
It means the unseen place. In ten of the occurrences of Hades it is in reference to death. It is not to be confused with the Greek word for grave (taphos), tomb (mnema) or memorial tomb (mnemeion), but is rather the common resting place of the dead. The place of death.
Jesus also uses Hades at Matthew 11:23 and Luke 10:15 in a figurative way to indicate the debasement of Capernaum compared to heaven.
The Greek Gehenna
Unlike the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, there is really no excuse for mistaking the Greek Geenna (Hebrew Geh Hinnom - English Transliteration Gehenna) with the notion of any hell, either the old English word meaning covered or the pagan hell of today's apostate Christianity.
The Christian Greek Gehenna is a literal place - a valley that lies South and South-West of ancient Jerusalem. It is the modern day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom), a deep, narrow valley. Today it is a peaceful and pleasant valley, unlike the surrounding dry and rocky terrain, and most certainly unlike the pagan / apostate Christian hell.
See Image attachment below: The Valley Of Gehenna
In the days of unfaithful Kings Manasseh and Ahaz idolatrous worship of the pagan god Baal was conducted in the place which was then known as Geh Hinnom, (the valley of Hinnom) including human sacrifices to fire. It is ironic that the pagan custom of burning in fire, as in hell, would have so clearly infiltrated the Christian teachings, considering that this practice was a detestable thing to Jehovah God, and his prophets spoke of a time when this place would be turned into a defiled and desolate place. (2 Chronicles 28:1-3; 33:1-6 / Jeremiah 7:31-32; 32:35).
The prophecy was fulfilled in the days of faithful King Josiah, who had the place, especially the area known as Topeth polluted into a refuse heap. (2 Kings 23:10)
So it was that in the days of Jesus and the early Christian congregations, that the valley was known as a literal place where the carcasses of criminals and animals were thrown, having no hope for resurrection. The refuse there was kept burning with sulfur, which is abundant in the area. When Jesus used Gehenna as a figurative or symbolic reference to the spiritually dead the people in the area knew what he was talking about.
The Greek Tartarus
The Greek word Tartarus is found only once in scripture, at 2 Peter 2:4. It is often mistranslated as hell. Tartarus in the Christian Greek scriptures refers to a condition of debasement, unlike the pre-Christian pagan Tartarus (as in Homer's Iliad) which is a mythological prison. The word basically means the lowest place.
Peter refers to the angels who in the time of Noah forsook their original positions and became men in order to have relations with the women of earth. The result was their offspring being giants, the Nephilim, who caused so much destruction God had to bring forth the flood. (Genesis 6:1-4 / Ephesians 6:10-12 / Jude 1:6).
It is interesting that this verse is often mistranslated because when Jesus was resurrected from Sheol / Hades (Hell in some translations) on earth, he first went to tartarus to minister to the disobedient angels whom had been lowered in position - who happened to be in heaven in a position of debasement. This means that if you don't understand the mistranslation you would see Jesus go to hell on earth and then hell in heaven.
The Pagan Hell
The Pagan teaching of hell was adopted by the apostate Christian church. Today's thinking of hell comes more from Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, but the teaching of hellfire is much older than the English word hell or Dante and Milton. It comes from Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs of a nether world. A place where gods and demons of great strength and fierceness presided over the damned.
Ancient Egyptian beliefs considered the Other World to be a place of pits of fire for the damned though they didn't think this lasted forever. Islamic teaching considers hell as a place of everlasting punishment. Hindus and Buddhists think of hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration.
Separation From God
Modern day Christians often try to soften the teaching of hell as a separation from God, but hell (as is often translated from the Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades) can't be a separation from God, since God is in effect there - it is in front of him. He watches Sheol for the time when the dead shall be resurrected. (Proverbs 15:11 / Psalms 139:7-8 / Amos 9:1-2).
Lazarus And The Rich Man - Luke 16:19-31]
Jesus often taught people in a way which was easy for them to grasp. One way of doing this is through parables, or illustration. They are stories, which are not meant to be taken as literal accounts. Such is the case with the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Notice that the Rich man is buried in Hades. If this account is to be taken literally then the Bible would contradict itself with all of the information being given in this article.
It is also true that if this account is to be taken literally then that would make Jesus a liar. How so? How could Lazarus be at the bosom of Abraham in heaven when Jesus had already said that no man had ascended to heaven other than himself? (John 3:13).
The Lake Of Fire
The lake of fire is sometimes referred to as hell. The lake of fire is obviously a symbolic reference to everlasting destruction. Since hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire they can't be one and the same. Since death is thrown into the lake of fire and death isn't something that can be thrown literally, the lake is obviously symbolic. The fact that hell and death are symbolically destroyed by fire is harmonious with the end of sin which brought death. Once sin is finally removed there would be no more death or "hell," or grave. Those not thrown into the lake of fire are the meek who will inherit the earth and live forever upon it.
Attachments
Earthling
David Henson
In the Old English, yes. It's meaning was transmogrified over time to mean something else.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
did I miss it?
in the days of the Carpenter.....a lawless man......a sinner
would be thrown (dead) into the garbage pit at the outskirts of the city
a fire was kept there
held in place by brimstone
I always thought it was odd
many people of that time did not believe in resurrection
so what matter is it?.....what happens to the body at burial
and then, some believe....without burial in consecrated
the soul is left to wander
I say....if we follow the body into the box.....into the ground
eternal darkness is physically real
hell