Aiviu
Active Member
... and Jesus is its Heart. The curve of a parable brings you closer without revealing the truth.
What stays alive so that death can not be implied?
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God of love...
- Thread starter TruePathFinder
- Start date
... and Jesus is its Heart. The curve of a parable brings you closer without revealing the truth.
What stays alive so that death can not be implied?
That's not what the Bible says.There are three words translated "Hell" in the New Testament, Hades and Tartarus, which are Greek, and Gehenna, which is the Greek form of the Hebrew words Gee and Hinnom, meaning "the valley of Hinnom."
These words were later translated into hell as a place of eternal damnation and a number of churches have been using that doctrine to force people to obey them out of fear and ignorance. Hell, as a place where people are sent to suffer for eternity is not a biblical concept.
If you're aware of that, don't you already have an answer (or answers) to your own question?
I imagine you're also aware that "love" holds many different meanings in the English language. Perhaps notably, "love" doesn't have to mean "love everyone" and there's a thing called "tough love."
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
Because you don't accept God's love for you if you don't.
Pompous and self righteous.
Judgement. Punishment. Wrath.
Because the majority of the population are a bunch of buttholes. Next.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
An interesting question, but I think there are a few problems here:
1. Why is this a popularity contest?
If the majority of the people think a human sacrifice is necessary, does that really make a human sacrifice necessary?
2. How do you know with certainty that the majority of the population is going to hell?
Did God tell you this? Are you drawing post board diagrams on your wall filled with quotes from Holy Scriptures? Did a random Evangelist rudely inform you that so many people were thus condemned?
3. What is love and how does it make conditions on people?
Is this like saying that if my wife really loves me, then she will always sleep with me no matter what I do? The couch is for husbands whose wives hate them?
As for the reason that you personally are being sent to 'eternal anguish', I am vexed. Why exactly don't you 'accept Jesus'? Do you hate him? Is this like saying, 'I don't accept Descartes'? Is there some particular thing that Jesus said that causes you to reject all things he said? Or is this like saying you reject Sherlock Holmes because he's a fictional character in a book made up by a man?
And if I quoted Sherlock Holmes and said:
Would you just scoff and say, "Bobbycock"?
nPeace
Veteran Member
As maker of life, God has the right to do anything he pleases. As almighty one, he has the power to do anything. As a God of justice, he does what is right, and exacts punishment where necessary. As a God of love, he does not delight in seeing and causing suffering, but is eager to extend mercy to repentant ones.
The Bible agrees with the title of the OP - God is love. That being the case, eternal torment seems out of sync / harmony with this dominate quality.
What would that accomplish? Who would take pleasure from seeing suffering, other than an evil entity?
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The obviousness of God for those truly seeking God, quite simply, isnt there.
Thats one way i know God isnt reality whatsoever.
Faith, and belief magic dont cut the mustard.
I am firmly convinced people are absolutely certain in their know hearts and minds that they have experienced God. The blinders are on and they know it. Every rationale satisfied im sure.
I know some Christians that i feel very bad for them, that they live life this way because of fear, and rationale that seems to match their experience.
Other Christians i dont feel so bad for because they are as judgmentally blind as can be, and seem to willfully, and heartfully love the hell judgment upon all non believers. They look at me with great disdain knowing i aint a christian.
I see some christian types try to break free of it in their hearts, but their minds are so immersed in it. They are all torn up believing they are on the right path.
I dont need faith goggles myself, i would rather see actuality, then live in fear.
Thats one way i know God isnt reality whatsoever.
Faith, and belief magic dont cut the mustard.
I am firmly convinced people are absolutely certain in their know hearts and minds that they have experienced God. The blinders are on and they know it. Every rationale satisfied im sure.
I know some Christians that i feel very bad for them, that they live life this way because of fear, and rationale that seems to match their experience.
Other Christians i dont feel so bad for because they are as judgmentally blind as can be, and seem to willfully, and heartfully love the hell judgment upon all non believers. They look at me with great disdain knowing i aint a christian.
I see some christian types try to break free of it in their hearts, but their minds are so immersed in it. They are all torn up believing they are on the right path.
I dont need faith goggles myself, i would rather see actuality, then live in fear.
nPeace
Veteran Member
How can a person determine that someone is blind?
Or how can one determine if someone is judgmental?
If we want to know how much pounds we weighted, we would want to be sure we had an accurate scale.
What is the perfect scale to weigh those questions on?
Our feelings? Guesswork? Ideas of "experts"? What's your opinion?
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
There is no perfect scale that i have ever found. You take your best wisdom and efforts and test the waters. Judgmentally blind people dont even know you and label you, and are spiteful about it. They come with preconceptions about you without the ever patience of ever learning about you. And condemn you without any understanding of you, but what they see.
Judgmentally blind people always look for your faults and weaknesses, and see no love in a person, who in fact does love.
Good judgment, requires patience and consideration, seeks to understand, and weighs actions. Good judgment finds out the matter first hand, and doesnt rely on heresay. Good judgment seeks the truth out. Good judgment learns their own limits and limitations. Good judgment proves things out. Good judgment knows when not to involve, and when to involve.
Good judgment is not satisfied with falsehood. Good judgment discerns friendliness from charm. Good judgment doesnt compromise with evil, and doesnt mingle with it. Its honesty as deserves.
nPeace
Veteran Member
So, in any case, look to yourself, and determine what love is and what love is not; what is good judbment is, what is not.
You know don't you, that of the billions of people on earth, more than a fourth would have different ideas on that, and even give reasons to justify these ideas as right.
I think deep down inside, you know what is the perfect scale for measuring all things related to matters of the heart. The theme you chose says it all.
There is a reason it would seem, why man yearns to be loved and treated justly. These things are no accident.
There is a reason it seems, why the scriptures which claim inspiration of God, not only describes what love is, and commands that we have love, but shows us how to love - especially by the life of the one who claimed to be the son of God - Jesus the Christ.
These things don't seem accidental. The Bible's standard exceed man's ways and thinking by a massive measure.
Surely it can't be the words of mere mortals, who think as those you described.
Just as evidence that you know, as I think you do, I'll use myself as an example.
If I had not been exposed in some way to the scriptures - whether I read it directly, was taught by the words or example, of a relative, a friend, or some individual, I likely would not have many of the feelings I have for people. Based on how people treat others, as you rightly described, I'd be like a vicious animal.
Believe me.Many people are not aware, but see those Asian people, much of whom believe in Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., their ancestors were exposed to the writing of the Torah - the books written by Moses, a man who worshiped the God of love.
I believe practically everyone on earth has had either direct or indirect exposure to God's writings. That along with their inbuilt qualifies given to them by their maker.
Tell me, am I wrong?
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
So, in any case, look to yourself, and determine what love is and what love is not; what is good judbment is, what is not.
You know don't you, that of the billions of people on earth, more than a fourth would have different ideas on that, and even give reasons to justify these ideas as right.
I think deep down inside, you know what is the perfect scale for measuring all things related to matters of the heart. The theme you chose says it all.
There is a reason it would seem, why man yearns to be loved and treated justly. These things are no accident.
There is a reason it seems, why the scriptures which claim inspiration of God, not only describes what love is, and commands that we have love, but shows us how to love - especially by the life of the one who claimed to be the son of God - Jesus the Christ.
These things don't seem accidental. The Bible's standard exceed man's ways and thinking by a massive measure.
Surely it can't be the words of mere mortals, who think as those you described.
Just as evidence that you know, as I think you do, I'll use myself as an example.
If I had not been exposed in some way to the scriptures - whether I read it directly, was taught by the words or example, of a relative, a friend, or some individual, I likely would not have many of the feelings I have for people. Based on how people treat others, as you rightly described, I'd be like a vicious animal.
Many people are not aware, but see those Asian people, much of whom believe in Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., their ancestors were exposed to the writing of the Torah - the books written by Moses, a man who worshiped the God of love.
I believe practically everyone on earth has had either direct or indirect exposure to God's writings. That along with their inbuilt qualifies given to them by their maker.
Tell me, am I wrong?
My father was a christian, we went from catholicism to independent baptist. He used to hang plaques on the wall, saying "the wages of sin is death" and other quotes to convict us. The language of the Bible has had an impact on me in certain ways. I sort of speak in terms of the language it uses. So the themes are ingrained into me. Virtue, love, mercy, temperance, understanding, fruits of the spirit. Etc. I think in terms of the soul and spirit.
When i read the old testament i think in terms of allegory. I never took it to be literal history.
Im not going to stone homosexuals, or live all these old testament rules and regulations.
I find some things very relevant, and other things make no sense to me whatsoever.
I can understand ecclesiastes a bit, job, adam & eve story, and the sermon on the mount. Those things are sensible enough.
And my father used to say, this is the age of grace, and that the law convicts man of sin, and that those who believe are not under the law, but in jesus the law is fulfilled.
So im no total stranger to the bible, no.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I know. I could tell you even before you said all that.
I appreciate the scriptures, in fact I highly value them because, they seem to me to speak the truth - which I love, and I believe because it's so valuable to the human family, enemies of God and what he stands for - righteousness, seek to destroy it, or hide it's truths, and the gems to be found there.
The Bible even tells us these things, and the facts can be seen both in history and today.
The truth of the matter, is that some of these enemies are the said ones that claim to value the Bible. Isn't that ironic?
Remember the number 23 - the numbers following 1, and when you get a chance, read Jeremiah 23, and Matthew 23, and ask yourself if that's not happening.
If God is love, as claimed by the Bible, then how could he delight in torturing or seeing people in torments for even a moment - far worst, eternity?
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I would say church can be a downright dissappointing experience. I wonder why people go there all puffed up and self righteous.
I wouldnt call myself a man of faith and belief. But the Bible does have some wise words about life in places.
Im not at where your at with it. You are obviously very sincere about it.
For all my faults, i still love the people i love and they love me.
So i dont know where to go with it all. I dont feel like a sinner. But i know of some sincere christians. But many act like the Lords favorite and i dont feel like anything is special about them.
True love is a desire and a need though. I just want to feel good about myself.
I wouldnt call myself a man of faith and belief. But the Bible does have some wise words about life in places.
Im not at where your at with it. You are obviously very sincere about it.
For all my faults, i still love the people i love and they love me.
So i dont know where to go with it all. I dont feel like a sinner. But i know of some sincere christians. But many act like the Lords favorite and i dont feel like anything is special about them.
True love is a desire and a need though. I just want to feel good about myself.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I would tend to agree that's true in many cases, and add that in many cases, it's not the fault of thousands of churchgoers, but the scriptures I suggested you read points the finger squarely on those at fault - failure on the part of the leaders to teach what is the truth from the Bible.
Perhaps they are too busy trying to frighten the people with eternal torment, and purgatory, so that they can fill their pockets with the tithe, and contribution the people give every week. Your guess is as good as mine, but the scriptures expose their true motives.
Just a sense of humor - not intended to offend anyone.
Perhaps they are misled. I sincerely believe that's the case, and people would do better, if they knew better.
I can't read hearts buddy, but you seem to have a good one. I would like to encourage you not to stop searching. It appears we only have two choices - wallow with the swine, or bathe and try to keep clean. The latter is not easy, but it's worth it.
You will then alway - not just momentarily - but always have the words of your last two sentences fulfilled.
...and you're right - the Bible does have some wise words. It might be good to read it - not just in passing, or one time - but seriously... continually.
It's just a suggestion - a sincere one.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Yeah i still have my family bible sittin on the shelf. Its a kjv 1611. Thanks for the compliment.I would tend to agree that's true in many cases, and add that in many cases, it's not the fault of thousands of churchgoers, but the scriptures I suggested you read points the finger squarely on those at fault - failure on the part of the leaders to teach what is the truth from the Bible.
Perhaps they are too busy trying to frighten the people with eternal torment, and purgatory, so that they can fill their pockets with the tithe, and contribution the people give every week. Your guess is as good as mine, but the scriptures expose their true motives.
Just a sense of humor - not intended to offend anyone.
Perhaps they are misled. I sincerely believe that's the case, and people would do better, if they knew better.
I can't read hearts buddy, but you seem to have a good one. I would like to encourage you not to stop searching. It appears we only have two choices - wallow with the swine, or bathe and try to keep clean. The latter is not easy, but it's worth it.
You will then alway - not just momentarily - but always have the words of your last two sentences fulfilled.
...and you're right - the Bible does have some wise words. It might be good to read it - not just in passing, or one time - but seriously... continually.
It's just a suggestion - a sincere one.