So...do you support his action?
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Russia is Rounding up Jehovah's Witnesses.
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
So...do you support his action?
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Hello PopeADope. Thanks for this first hand information. It has been a few years ago when JW visited me. I mostly remember that they were quite disrespectful towards my religion. I always give humans the advantage of doubt. But you confirmed my feeling. So it's not just the Dutch JW anymore.
"it is true that they both often declare Catholicism to be the horror of Babylon"
"Catholicism is the religion of the Antichrist, and their Pope is the beast of the Apocalypse" [7th-day-Adv]
Amazing how positive you bring this towards JW "They are a little bit more balanced on how much they focus on it".
Do you mean to tell us here
They expected otherwise an early "Exodus" from your room by your "Gigantic Moses" personal bouncer/bodyguard
?
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"Hell" used to mean a place of torment after a person dies. JWs do not believe that. Many people other than JWs do not believe that. But, for some people, real hell means to be abandoned by God. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in that hell.
Shad
Veteran Member
Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?
I am thinking part of the reason is the same as JW faced in the US decades ago namely being non-violent, refusing military service and anti-war. It goes against many ideas of patriotism which Russia banks on.
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The gospel of the Jehovah's Witnesses is self-centered. The doctrine of the JWs :
God's only servant presently is the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Jesus is head of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and no other organization.
There is only one "table of Jehovah" and it is the JWs.
To trust in the governing body means to be a sheep of God's flock and only they will please God and be given everlasting life.
First of all I appreciate that you want to learn accurately what we teach. Actually, we don't tell people that they 'won't make it to heaven,' -- we couldn't -- because we don't even teach that heaven is the hope for mankind. We hold out the hope of living on Earth forever. -- Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:29; Isaiah 11:6-9 (especially vs.9); Psalms 115:16; etc.
A paradise Earth, with all mankind living under God's Kingdom rule... no more wickedness, sickness, or death.
(Revelation 21:3-4) And we teach that the vast majority of humans will be given this opportunity. Whether they accept it, will depend on them.
That must have been a special assembly, because we don't have churches that big; our regular congregations are usually no more than 150. (Are you sure it was JW's? Some people get us mixed up with the SDA's.)
I mean, we are united in our beliefs -- I can guarantee that what JW's teach in South Africa, is the same as what JW's teach in Scotland, or ____ (insert country here.) Wherever. 1 Corinthians 1:10
It just seems that what was said to you, wasn't from us.
I wish you all the best.
Hey @PopeADope , hope you're doing well today.
Let me ask you this: does Catholicism think Protestantism is right? Or wrong? What about Protestantism? Does it think Catholicism is right, or wrong? If they all agreed, there wouldn't be these two sets of thought.
Have Protestant denominations at times approved of killing Catholics? Has Catholicism approved at times of killing Protestants? I think you know the answer.
Now let's take it closer to home: have Protestant organizations supported one side in a conflict, and killed adherents of the same faith, on the other side? What about Catholics? During WWII / WWI, can't remember correctly, there was a bishop who told his fellow worshippers: "Kill Germans....do kill them."
Do you think that is really representing Christ, when He told His followers, "love your brother", even beyond that: "love your enemy"?
We love people, we just don't like some of the institutions they are in.
Peace to you.
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@savagewind , why did you rate my serious post as 'funny'? RF warned us about that.
I'm sad for you.
I'm sad for you.
I am sorry you are sad for me. I thought it was funny. I don't remember why.
I remember now. It was what I thought was a confusion about how many.
I am not sad for you.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Their meeting places were raided by heavily armed police and arrests made. Their Halls were shut down and they are being persecuted with the sanction of the Russian Orthodox Church.
These kinds of heavy handed tactics are nothing new in Russia. It reminds me of the armed guards coming to arrest Jesus. Since when is an armed militia needed to arrest a quiet group of unarmed Christians?
"Critics accuse the authorities of exploiting anti-terrorism laws to pressure the group. “There were no grounds at all to bar the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Alexander Verkhovsky, an expert on anti-extremist legislation at the Moscow-based Sova human rights center. “Yes, they insist that their religion is the only right one. But so do most other religions. No one has even accused them of any specific extremist actions.” (Russia’s Justice Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.)
Analysts at the United Nations say the suppression of the Christian movement signals a “dark future” for religious freedom in Russia. Kremlin officials insist, however, that the Supreme Court ruling merely blacklists the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, and does not infringe upon individuals’ rights to practice their religion of choice, as guaranteed by the country’s post-Soviet constitution.
Many observers disagree. “The escalating crackdown on the Jehovah’s Witnesses without doubt represents Russia’s worst backsliding on religious freedom since the Soviet era,” says Geraldine Fagan, editor of East-West Church and Ministry Report, an online publication that monitors Christianity-related issues in former Soviet countries."
http://www.newsweek.com/2018/06/01/jehovahs-witnesses-939860.html
I guess the law can be manipulated to ban people who are your most honest and hard working citizens?
Makes you wonder what kind of threat they think we are.....? Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?
My question is, what makes you think that JW's are Christians ?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well, they are arguably irritating when they come to your door with whatever silly message du jour they are offering. I'm not sure that I would sanction rounding them up. I might be good with Scientologists though.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Why would RF, warned anyone about posting something as funny, seeing that in the comment section, at the bottom you can post ( winner ) ( informative ) ( funny )
So why would RF warned anyone, seeing that it's RF which has those such things to post.
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
There is no difference what their "orthodox" ideology is doing than the early catholic orthodox church (325AD) did to the Gnostics. It about who has celestial authority over men. Gnostics said no man has authority, but the Spirit.Their meeting places were raided by heavily armed police and arrests made. Their Halls were shut down and they are being persecuted with the sanction of the Russian Orthodox Church.
These kinds of heavy handed tactics are nothing new in Russia. It reminds me of the armed guards coming to arrest Jesus. Since when is an armed militia needed to arrest a quiet group of unarmed Christians?
"Critics accuse the authorities of exploiting anti-terrorism laws to pressure the group. “There were no grounds at all to bar the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Alexander Verkhovsky, an expert on anti-extremist legislation at the Moscow-based Sova human rights center. “Yes, they insist that their religion is the only right one. But so do most other religions. No one has even accused them of any specific extremist actions.” (Russia’s Justice Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.)
Analysts at the United Nations say the suppression of the Christian movement signals a “dark future” for religious freedom in Russia. Kremlin officials insist, however, that the Supreme Court ruling merely blacklists the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, and does not infringe upon individuals’ rights to practice their religion of choice, as guaranteed by the country’s post-Soviet constitution.
Many observers disagree. “The escalating crackdown on the Jehovah’s Witnesses without doubt represents Russia’s worst backsliding on religious freedom since the Soviet era,” says Geraldine Fagan, editor of East-West Church and Ministry Report, an online publication that monitors Christianity-related issues in former Soviet countries."
http://www.newsweek.com/2018/06/01/jehovahs-witnesses-939860.html
I guess the law can be manipulated to ban people who are your most honest and hard working citizens?
Makes you wonder what kind of threat they think we are.....? Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?
Since the Spirit wasn't given until Jesus was glorified, orthodoxy (all) use the OT as their proof of power which is why it was included in their "doctrines of men" (Bible) and why those like Marcion and Valentinus (Pauline) removed the OT ideology.
John 6:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
John 1:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The orthodox priests are nothing more than the Pharisee's come back to repair the veil and reinstate the holy of holies.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't think Christians are harmless yet then again neither is Russia. Hard to tell until the details are in if it ever does.Their meeting places were raided by heavily armed police and arrests made. Their Halls were shut down and they are being persecuted with the sanction of the Russian Orthodox Church.
These kinds of heavy handed tactics are nothing new in Russia. It reminds me of the armed guards coming to arrest Jesus. Since when is an armed militia needed to arrest a quiet group of unarmed Christians?
"Critics accuse the authorities of exploiting anti-terrorism laws to pressure the group. “There were no grounds at all to bar the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Alexander Verkhovsky, an expert on anti-extremist legislation at the Moscow-based Sova human rights center. “Yes, they insist that their religion is the only right one. But so do most other religions. No one has even accused them of any specific extremist actions.” (Russia’s Justice Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.)
Analysts at the United Nations say the suppression of the Christian movement signals a “dark future” for religious freedom in Russia. Kremlin officials insist, however, that the Supreme Court ruling merely blacklists the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, and does not infringe upon individuals’ rights to practice their religion of choice, as guaranteed by the country’s post-Soviet constitution.
Many observers disagree. “The escalating crackdown on the Jehovah’s Witnesses without doubt represents Russia’s worst backsliding on religious freedom since the Soviet era,” says Geraldine Fagan, editor of East-West Church and Ministry Report, an online publication that monitors Christianity-related issues in former Soviet countries."
http://www.newsweek.com/2018/06/01/jehovahs-witnesses-939860.html
I guess the law can be manipulated to ban people who are your most honest and hard working citizens?
Makes you wonder what kind of threat they think we are.....? Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?
Some people use funny as an insult.
You know I'm a born Hindu right? I have repeatedly stated that I disagree with prostelysing. But shutting down a hall is not stopping prostelysing, its disrupting a congregation of peaceful worshippers. That is a direct violation of religious freedom and right to assembly (that one might be an American thing.) And prostelysing is a form of religious expression, which falls under freedom of speech. Besides this is a debate forum there is such a thing as "time and place."I can give you 100% proof that "proselytizing" is "wrong"
View the RF rules. I think they did it for a reason [maybe the same reason Putin did what he did, but that is just speculation]?
RF Rules [I wish they put this link somewhere more convenient; I don't know where to click to get it]
Personally I think there is not loss in "Freedom of Religion" by taking out proselytizing.
Spirituality is known to be a personal transformation. You can not transform your neighbor.
Also there are the proverbs:
"1 finger pointing at others, 3 fingers pointing back at yourself"
"Do not preach, just live the right example"
And the kicker:
1: Everyone has the right to protect his own life. It doesn't mean you have the right to kill the life of the other.
2: Everyone has the right to protect his own religion. It doesn't mean you have the right to kill the religion of the other.
It might take a few decades. But I am quite [just being humble here] convinced that the whole world has to finally accept this truth. It's just not respectful. Period. However much people try meddle with the truth. The truth will finally uproot the lie. I do have trust in the truth. But can take a while.
74x12
Well-Known Member
The sleeping bear is beginning to wake up I think. Russia and Putin aren't to be trusted.Their meeting places were raided by heavily armed police and arrests made. Their Halls were shut down and they are being persecuted with the sanction of the Russian Orthodox Church.
These kinds of heavy handed tactics are nothing new in Russia. It reminds me of the armed guards coming to arrest Jesus. Since when is an armed militia needed to arrest a quiet group of unarmed Christians?
"Critics accuse the authorities of exploiting anti-terrorism laws to pressure the group. “There were no grounds at all to bar the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Alexander Verkhovsky, an expert on anti-extremist legislation at the Moscow-based Sova human rights center. “Yes, they insist that their religion is the only right one. But so do most other religions. No one has even accused them of any specific extremist actions.” (Russia’s Justice Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.)
Analysts at the United Nations say the suppression of the Christian movement signals a “dark future” for religious freedom in Russia. Kremlin officials insist, however, that the Supreme Court ruling merely blacklists the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, and does not infringe upon individuals’ rights to practice their religion of choice, as guaranteed by the country’s post-Soviet constitution.
Many observers disagree. “The escalating crackdown on the Jehovah’s Witnesses without doubt represents Russia’s worst backsliding on religious freedom since the Soviet era,” says Geraldine Fagan, editor of East-West Church and Ministry Report, an online publication that monitors Christianity-related issues in former Soviet countries."
http://www.newsweek.com/2018/06/01/jehovahs-witnesses-939860.html
I guess the law can be manipulated to ban people who are your most honest and hard working citizens?
Makes you wonder what kind of threat they think we are.....? Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?