Yeah, me too.
But Deeje said, "Since we do not believe in hell..."
What do you think? If JW's don't believe in hell, would they tell people they're going to hell?
It might be helpful to read the post, before you reply to it!
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Russia is Rounding up Jehovah's Witnesses.
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
But Deeje said, "Since we do not believe in hell..."
What do you think? If JW's don't believe in hell, would they tell people they're going to hell?
It might be helpful to read the post, before you reply to it!
Typical in church territorial bikering b.s..Their meeting places were raided by heavily armed police and arrests made. Their Halls were shut down and they are being persecuted with the sanction of the Russian Orthodox Church.
These kinds of heavy handed tactics are nothing new in Russia. It reminds me of the armed guards coming to arrest Jesus. Since when is an armed militia needed to arrest a quiet group of unarmed Christians?
"Critics accuse the authorities of exploiting anti-terrorism laws to pressure the group. “There were no grounds at all to bar the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Alexander Verkhovsky, an expert on anti-extremist legislation at the Moscow-based Sova human rights center. “Yes, they insist that their religion is the only right one. But so do most other religions. No one has even accused them of any specific extremist actions.” (Russia’s Justice Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.)
Analysts at the United Nations say the suppression of the Christian movement signals a “dark future” for religious freedom in Russia. Kremlin officials insist, however, that the Supreme Court ruling merely blacklists the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, and does not infringe upon individuals’ rights to practice their religion of choice, as guaranteed by the country’s post-Soviet constitution.
Many observers disagree. “The escalating crackdown on the Jehovah’s Witnesses without doubt represents Russia’s worst backsliding on religious freedom since the Soviet era,” says Geraldine Fagan, editor of East-West Church and Ministry Report, an online publication that monitors Christianity-related issues in former Soviet countries."
http://www.newsweek.com/2018/06/01/jehovahs-witnesses-939860.html
I guess the law can be manipulated to ban people who are your most honest and hard working citizens?
Makes you wonder what kind of threat they think we are.....? Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?
Spiderman
Veteran Member
they should stop knocking on people's doors and condemning other people's faith.
Where were Jehovah's Witnesses for over 1600 years after the death of Christ?
they assume God just let Christians go astray Century after Century after century, and now they have the truth, and go knocking on doors to try and indoctrinate people.
Many Jehovah's Witnesses think that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.
when people are preaching something so judgemental and insulting to what others hold sacred, they shouldn't be surprised when there is a backlash.
I'm not saying all Jehovah's Witnesses are like that though.
it just seems really arrogant to me though and a depressing message, to say that all the Christians Century after Century after Century followed the whore of Babylon, and go door-to-door preaching that this new tiny sect has the truth and no one else does.
they are essentially saying that God is a pitiful Shepherd and guide.
Where were Jehovah's Witnesses for over 1600 years after the death of Christ?
they assume God just let Christians go astray Century after Century after century, and now they have the truth, and go knocking on doors to try and indoctrinate people.
Many Jehovah's Witnesses think that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.
when people are preaching something so judgemental and insulting to what others hold sacred, they shouldn't be surprised when there is a backlash.
I'm not saying all Jehovah's Witnesses are like that though.
it just seems really arrogant to me though and a depressing message, to say that all the Christians Century after Century after Century followed the whore of Babylon, and go door-to-door preaching that this new tiny sect has the truth and no one else does.
they are essentially saying that God is a pitiful Shepherd and guide.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I can give you 100% proof that "proselytizing" is "wrong"
.View the RF rules. I think they did it for a reason [maybe the same reason Putin did what he did, but that is just speculation]?
RF Rules [I wish they put this link somewhere more convenient; I don't know where to click to get it]
Personally I think there is not loss in "Freedom of Religion" by taking out proselytizing.
Spirituality is known to be a personal transformation. You can not transform your neighbor.
Also there are the proverbs:
"1 finger pointing at others, 3 fingers pointing back at yourself"
"Do not preach, just live the right example"
And the kicker:
1: Everyone has the right to protect his own life. It doesn't mean you have the right to kill the life of the other.
2: Everyone has the right to protect his own religion. It doesn't mean you have the right to kill the religion of the other.
It might take a few decades. But I am quite [just being humble here] convinced that the whole world has to finally accept this truth. It's just not respectful. Period. However much people try meddle with the truth. The truth will finally uproot the lie. I do have trust in the truth. But can take a while.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I agree that what the Russians are doing to the JW's is completely reprehensible, but I do have to say there's an element of hypocrisy in your complaint above as you have frequently told one lie after another when it comes to your attack on the Catholic Church even after we show you that you are clearly wrong. Just one example is your insistence that Catholics worship the sun even after it was repeatedly shown to you to be false.
Because I do not want to derail the OP, this is my last post on this thread.
How are JW's, "self centered"? Certainly not by using our time and money - gas is expensive - going door-to-door, trying to find people to teach them about God's Kingdom (Matthew 24:14)? Frequently, though, we have doors slammed in our faces....we know this may happen, but still we trudge on. Why? Because Jesus told us to, at Matthew 28:19-20.(Acts of the Apostles 5:42)We are searching for those who the KJV Bible calls "ordained to everlasting life (Acts of the Apostles 13:48) " i.e., rightly disposed for everlasting life .
We really don't mean to be irritating. We're just concerned for others. And trying to be obedient to Christ.
Their meeting places were raided by heavily armed police and arrests made. Their Halls were shut down and they are being persecuted with the sanction of the Russian Orthodox Church.
These kinds of heavy handed tactics are nothing new in Russia. It reminds me of the armed guards coming to arrest Jesus. Since when is an armed militia needed to arrest a quiet group of unarmed Christians?
"Critics accuse the authorities of exploiting anti-terrorism laws to pressure the group. “There were no grounds at all to bar the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” says Alexander Verkhovsky, an expert on anti-extremist legislation at the Moscow-based Sova human rights center. “Yes, they insist that their religion is the only right one. But so do most other religions. No one has even accused them of any specific extremist actions.” (Russia’s Justice Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.)
Analysts at the United Nations say the suppression of the Christian movement signals a “dark future” for religious freedom in Russia. Kremlin officials insist, however, that the Supreme Court ruling merely blacklists the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, and does not infringe upon individuals’ rights to practice their religion of choice, as guaranteed by the country’s post-Soviet constitution.
Many observers disagree. “The escalating crackdown on the Jehovah’s Witnesses without doubt represents Russia’s worst backsliding on religious freedom since the Soviet era,” says Geraldine Fagan, editor of East-West Church and Ministry Report, an online publication that monitors Christianity-related issues in former Soviet countries."
http://www.newsweek.com/2018/06/01/jehovahs-witnesses-939860.html
I guess the law can be manipulated to ban people who are your most honest and hard working citizens?
Makes you wonder what kind of threat they think we are.....? Do they imagine that our message of peace is a threat to Russian security?
That's Terrible @Deeje . Do you know if it has anything to do with any state favored church opposing the JWs, or is it purely politics. Makes no sense to me. Seems like it would be much simpler to just say, "No thank you, I do not want to have a bible study".
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
That is just delusional.
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
The government is oppressing everyone in order to outrage the rest of the world. Also because they are afraid.That's Terrible @Deeje . Do you know if it has anything to do with any state favored church opposing the JWs, or is it purely politics. Makes no sense to me. Seems like it would be much simpler to just say, "No thank you, I do not want to have a bible study".
So surely you don't support persecution of a peaceful organization simply because you find them irritating.
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
No. I don't.So surely you don't support persecution of a peaceful organization simply because you find them irritating.
It's probably a combination, but mostly the Church. Our numbers were growing there - probably still are, they usually do during persecution.... after Hitler, there were more Witnesses in Germany than before. That means less people giving their money to the Church.That's Terrible @Deeje . Do you know if it has anything to do with any state favored church opposing the JWs, or is it purely politics. Makes no sense to me. Seems like it would be much simpler to just say, "No thank you, I do not want to have a bible study".
To become a baptized Witness, one needs to have his name removed from Church membership rolls. Sending a letter will suffice.
You may not think it important...we do. -- John 15:14
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Catholics worship the sun? That's a new one. Usually its the SDAs that tell each other breathless horror stories about evil Catholics.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Oke that's good to read that JW don't believe in hell. And don't threaten others with that. My mistake. I can still change my post of today.
So please enlighten me.
The Dutch Jehova's told me:
"You following your guru Sai Baba with Sanathana Dharma have no chance to make it to heaven. But when joining JW you can make it to heaven."
This is demeaning to my BeliefSystem. And that is "not done". Also this is "emotional Blackmail", which I can not let pass.
I went to the Dutch JW Church and told God:"If there is 1 JW who does not condemn me as `no change for you to make it into heaven` I keep going there. I asked JW, and all told me "No, no chance". I still argued "but here are 6000 JW, do they all believe the same? I can't believe that". And those JW answered "Yes, we all believe the same".
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And you have every right to think this @PopeADope , but surely you don't think that this difference of opinion is cause for persecution. I say, let them have their say. If I disagree ,I just wont join their organization. Its really that simple. Now, if they busted down my door and started beating me with a copy of the Watchtower,,,,,then I would have a problem with them. But until then, no worries.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
yes, I approve of Jehovah's Witnesses more than Seventh-Day Adventists.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/who-goes-to-hell/
Oke this Hell thing was my mistake. I can still correct that. [but denying heaven = "Hell" to me]
So I need to know about:
a)Gehenna [according to JW]
b)My Chances to heaven [according to JW]
The Dutch Jehova's told me "Unless you join JW you won't make it to heaven."
So Hell is leftover for me. A grave, no fiery torment [that's improvement compared to Christianity; but cold grave also not my wish]
And you should admit that it is not friendly to deny others heaven unless they convert to JW [Should a JW really fill in for God what God will do?]
[This is still emotional Blackmail and demeaning to my BeliefSystem, so "not done"]
[And knowing about the soul `no chance in heaven` is as bad as doomed to Hell IMO]
JW use the word Gehenna. Just for my information. If I follow my guru Sai Baba and lead a moral life, can I still end up in Gehenna?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/who-goes-to-hell/
1: Hell:
Hell (“Sheol” and “Hades” in the Bible’s original languages) is simply the grave, not a place of fiery torment. Who go to hell? Both good people and bad people.
2: Gehenna:
Not everyone who dies goes to hell, though. The Bible shows that some people become so steeped in wickedness that they are beyond repentance. (Hebrews 10:26, 27) When such ones die, they go, not to hell, but to Gehenna, which is a symbol of everlasting destruction. (Matthew 5:29, 30) For example, Jesus indicated that some of the hypocritical religious leaders in his day would go to Gehenna
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Why? They actually have pretty similar views on Catholicism.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
it is true that they both often declare Catholicism to be the horror of Babylon, but Jehovah's Witnesses are a little bit more balanced on how much they focus on it. The Seventh-Day Adventist that I have met, had an unbalanced focus and concentration on Catholicism being the religion of the Antichrist, and the Pope is the 666 beast of the Apocalypse!