Absolute Truth VS Opinion

Is that an objective meaning or are you repeating things someone else says is the meaning they attribute to "a heaven"? What did you mean when you used the phrase "a heaven"?

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If that's not the objective meaning then those religions which claim that is the objective meaning are wrong... proving my case.

Depends on whom you ask.

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Definitionally illogical. If reality is subject to the person asked, then it's not objective. You seem to be attempting to resolve your argument by saying "there is no reality", which runs contrary to the claims of several religions and thereby establishes them false.

Bingo!

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Mr.Ed.

It's not about right or wrong. It's about perspective. My perspective isn't the same as their perspective. We are not at a point where we can see truth at a glance.

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Perspectives are right or wrong. My perspecitve that the moon is made of cheese is a wrong perspective. I cannot make my claim riht by saying "it's my perspective".

That's not the question. The question is, "What is the truth that both viewpoints reveal?" Certainly, if both are absolutes, then they are mutually exclusive. But if both are not absolutes, but concepts of an absolute, your point is moot.

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The claims made by both side claim absolute things. They are therefore exclusive.

Only in base 10 mathematics.

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Another simply false statement. There is no form of math or logic in which 5=6.

well, that would depend on how you define 'an apple'.

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No it really doesn't. Not without making a symantic fallacy. An apple is a discreet object and would have a discreet count. 5 != 6

JerryL said:

No it really doesn't. Not without making a symantic fallacy. An apple is a discreet object and would have a discreet count. 5 != 6

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but different cultures might have different ways of defining the 'applehood' of an object. some obscure scandinavian native tribes, for example...

sojourner said:

Only in base 10 mathematics.

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Using a different base would change how the number of apples was written down, but it would not change what that number was. If you count those five apples using base 2 say, you will get 21. But 21 in base 2 is equivilent to 5 in base 10.

Genna said:

OK, I have heard people say many times on this board in regards to their faith/religion that it is their belief, or according to "their opinion" its the truth. How or if possible does one determine whether what is absolute truth as to personal opinion. E.G., "well you have your belief and I have mines," well I personally believe that Christianity is the truth, and I personally believe that Islam is the truth." Is there any way to determine what is the absolute truth? I mean all religions have differing opinions and beliefs, so which one is true? they can't all be if they differ! And is there a way to determine which one is the absolute truth or is the only way we are going to find out is when we die?

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The problem is, if there is an absolute truth, can finite beings like ourselves comprehend enough to see it?

From our pov, truth will always be relative, because we might learn something new that will throw out our old "truth."

That doesn't mean you can't have any certitude, though. There are a lot of common threads among religions, and where they all agree, there must be something working there that's worth considering.

I recognize that all religions have differences, but that doesn't render all but one of them "untrue" any more than 2nd grade is "untrue" compared to 5th grade.

There are billions of people in this world who don't seem to have a problem with the idea that multiple religions can be "true."

Just because someone else told you it was impossible, well, they are also a finite and fallible being. Why would you believe them? Just because they say so? What do *you* think about whether it's possible for more than one religion to be "true"? Go read about them, or ask here, and judge for yourself. No one else can do that for you.

If you want a discussion about how multiple religions can be "true" while having differences, I'll start a thread on that, or you can and I'll pop in.

but different cultures might have different ways of defining the 'applehood' of an object. some obscure scandinavian native tribes, for example...

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There is one apple on my desk. Someone from an obscure scandinavian tribe would not know the word "apple" or "one", but that's exactly what the words he used would mean.

There is one apple on my desk. It doesn't matter of you are jave double-vision and see two, there is still only one. It doesn't matter if you remember there having been three, there still is only one. It is OBJECTIVELY "one apple".

No perception will make it possible for there two be two apples on my desk and only one apple on my desk simultaniously. You might *think* there are, but that has no effect on the complete impossability of such a position.

The Egyptians believed that a person's belongings followed him into the afterlife. The Christians believe that your belongings do not. It is not possible for the objective reality to be that you do bring your belongings and that you do not. These are contradictory positions, and therefore cannot be true simultanously.

While I believe in a few items that can be considered absolute truth's, I am not especially concerned with "the truth". The truth is relative to ones particular perspective in a given juncture of space and time. You WILL find that truth morphs over time as your experience grows.

I don't think you are actually intending the word "Truth" but are in fact intending the word "meaning". It is meaning you are looking for, not truth. In theory you questions will unearth their own truths, as their "hidden" meaning resonate within you. You will also discover that the key to real knowledge lies in asking good questions, NOT in their answers.

Then again, you have all eternity, so it is not like there is any hurry. Take your time and keep asking good questions.

JerryL said:

There is one apple on my desk. Someone from an obscure scandinavian tribe would not know the word "apple" or "one", but that's exactly what the words he used would mean.

There is one apple on my desk. It doesn't matter of you are jave double-vision and see two, there is still only one. It doesn't matter if you remember there having been three, there still is only one. It is OBJECTIVELY "one apple".

No perception will make it possible for there two be two apples on my desk and only one apple on my desk simultaniously. You might *think* there are, but that has no effect on the complete impossability of such a position.

The Egyptians believed that a person's belongings followed him into the afterlife. The Christians believe that your belongings do not. It is not possible for the objective reality to be that you do bring your belongings and that you do not. These are contradictory positions, and therefore cannot be true simultanously.

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um...my statement was clearly marked as 'a joke' by the use of so-called 'smileys'. sorry you had to type so much for no use there.

il divino said:

um...my statement was clearly marked as 'a joke' by the use of so-called 'smileys'. sorry you had to type so much for no use there.

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LOL

Genna said:

OK, I have heard people say many times on this board in regards to their faith/religion that it is their belief, or according to "their opinion" its the truth..

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Our opinions, hunches, guesses and beliefs aren't worth a spit without backup. Christians have plenty of backup -
Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy Joshua Judges Ruth 1 Samuel 2 Samuel 1 Kings 2 Kings 1 Chronicles 2 Chronicles Ezra Nehemiah Esther Job Psalms Proverbs Ecclesiastes Song of Solomon Isaiah Jeremiah Lamentations Ezekiel Daniel Hosea Joel Amos Obadiah Jonah Micah Nahum Habakkuk Zephaniah Haggai Zecharia Malachi Matthew Mark Luke John The Acts Romans 1 Corinthians 2 Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Phillipians Colossians 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Philemon Hebrews James 1 Peter 2 Peter 1 John 2 John 3 John Jude Revelation

Mick in England said:

Our opinions, hunches, guesses and beliefs aren't worth a spit without backup. Christians have plenty of backup -
Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy Joshua Judges Ruth 1 Samuel 2 Samuel 1 Kings 2 Kings 1 Chronicles 2 Chronicles Ezra Nehemiah Esther Job Psalms Proverbs Ecclesiastes Song of Solomon Isaiah Jeremiah Lamentations Ezekiel Daniel Hosea Joel Amos Obadiah Jonah Micah Nahum Habakkuk Zephaniah Haggai Zecharia Malachi Matthew Mark Luke John The Acts Romans 1 Corinthians 2 Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Phillipians Colossians 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Philemon Hebrews James 1 Peter 2 Peter 1 John 2 John 3 John Jude Revelation

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so by that reasoning, islam is more right than christians since they've got 114 surahs, hence more backup. their sources are also more recent...

il divino said:

so by that reasoning, islam is more right than christians since they've got 114 surahs, hence more backup. their sources are also more recent...

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I believe he was refering to the content within those scriptures, not the quantity of the books.

waacman said:

I believe he was refering to the content within those scriptures, not the quantity of the books.

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well, choosing the wording 'plenty of backup' does suggest that quantity has something to do with it.