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"Christianity is nothing more than the typical socialist doctrine"?

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
No need to apologize at all. You did the reasonable thing, not knowing how greatly translations of Nietzsche can vary.

Thanks, I honestly wasn't aware of the extreme variability in translations. I appreciate the guidance!

My knowledge of Nietzsche, with the exception of Thus Spake Zarathustra (which I have read, although back in my college days) is predominantly derived from secondary, academic sources.

As such, I hadn't a clue about translation issues with his works.

I had heard of his sister's fraudulent actions under the Nazi regime, however (from documentaries) and the idea that he has been unfairly maligned as a proto-fascist, when he actually is considered by scholars to be one of the most insightful and penetrating - if controversial and troubled - minds of modern intellectual history, with much to tell us today about the way things are going with Western civilization, the death of God, eternal recurrence, the last men etc. (despite his psychological problems and some really disturbing ideas of his, or rather the implications thereof).

His advocacy for Graeco-Roman "master morality" (i.e. societal elites, aristocracy) and the "will to power" concept is what I find the most distasteful aspect of his thought, in tandem with his apparent disdain for democracy and glorification of the overman. But outside this, he was definitely a compelling and challenging thinker with much relevance to the modern world.

I am going to revive this topic, or rather a streamlined version of it (with a far shorter OP), when I have chance to read those better translations for myself. So again, many thanks indeed for setting me on the right track. :)
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
...Nietzsche was very helpful in...teaching me that the questions we ask when tackling a subject can be more fruitful than the answers.

To elaborate on that. Nietzsche somewhere (a bit snobbishly) says something along the lines of, "The mistakes of great men are more fruitful than the truths of little men." Despite his formulation of the idea, the idea itself is sound. Some people's mistakes are more fruitful than some other people's truths. Or better yet, great mistakes are more fruitful than small truths.

Applying that to The Antichrist, I'd say that Nietzsche makes a number of annoying mistakes, but that some of those mistakes are actually fruitful. For instance, in effectively asking what social group Christian values came from, he at the very least helped to usher in our own age in which such questions are routine in some quarters -- such as in sociology or anthropology. Of course, Christians themselves knew for ages that Jesus exalted the poor, but I don't think there was quite as sharp insight into how Christian values differed from the elite values of the time.

Having said all that, I think The Antichrist betrays some profound misunderstandings of human nature, to say the least.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
...the "will to power" concept...

I have seen it argued by more than one scholar that what Nietzsche meant by "Will to Power" would today more accurately be translated as "Will to self realization" or "Will to self actualization", much in Maslow's sense of "self-actualization". I largely agree with them, based on my own readings of Nietzsche -- however, I'm no scholar.

One thing that I do feel safe in saying, the term lends itself to superficial interpretations -- of which I have encountered thousands. Among the worse interpretations -- again, in my own opinion -- is to interpret it as valuing raw might above all else. But to be fair to those who do interpret it that way, that does seem to be a bit like what Nietzsche himself had in mind the day and hour he first coined the phrase. If it indeed came to mean to him what we would call "self-actualization" -- as I myself think it did -- it is quite arguable that it didn't start out meaning that to him.

The story goes that Nietzsche was walking along the street one day during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 when suddenly a troop of Prussian cavalry burst into the street from around a corner and forced him to dash for his life to the side of the road. In that instant, and in awe of the cavalry, he coined the the term "Will to Power". It was meant in part as an answer to Schopenhauer's Will to Live as the preeminent source of human value, but it seems to have been inspired at first by the sight of raw, crude power.

...his apparent disdain for democracy...

Given what a creative thinker Nietzsche was, you'd expect better of him than to utterly and miserably fail to see any positive value in democracy. Personal accounts of Nietzsche represent him as a considerate man, someone who frequently displayed kindness to others. In fact, the immediate trigger for his insanity was to witness a horse being cruelly flogged. So why couldn't he see the potential of democracy for alleviating human suffering, to say the least? And -- more to the point -- why couldn't he see its potential for allowing people to flourish, for allowing as many people as possible to achieve some degree of self-realization? So far as I know, he doesn't seriously address those issues even in passing.

Most days, I am tempted to paraphrase Nietzsche himself (in speaking of Pascal) "When Nietzsche wholly condemned democracy, the Great Philosopher became an idiot"

I am going to revive this topic...

I am so glad to hear that! It's an important topic given, as you point out, the influence he's had on us all.

So again, many thanks indeed for setting me on the right track. :)

Well, I hope I have. But as I say, I'm no scholar. Besides which, my last sustained study of Nietzsche was decades ago. So, please take whatever I say with your usual good sense.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
@Vouthon, I should probably resist telling you this story because it's both a bit off topic and most likely not nearly as charming as I myself find it. But on the off chance it will make you too smile a wee moment at the foibles of human nature, here it is:

This is the background: I was "raised" by my philosophy professors the old fashioned way. For instance, an oft repeated lecture nearly every one of them would give at least once a semester went along these lines. "If you come across an argument that can be taken two or more ways, and you choose to take it in the weakest possible way in order to have an easy time refuting it, expect to get your grade knocked down a letter or two." That lecture always put a righteous fear into more than one of us students.

Well, along comes the time to take a seminar in Nietzsche. A fellow student confesses to me that the only reason he's taking the course is so he can write a paper refuting Nietzsche's famous proposition "God is dead". We discuss what he means to actually refute, and I end up cautioning him, "I don't think that has much to do with what N really meant by 'God is dead'. You'd best study it some more." "Oh no! It's plain as day! He thought God could die What a goofball!"

When it came time to deliver papers, he was still claiming N thought God could literally die. I glanced at our professor and saw something approaching despair on his face. Later the student told me the professor was prejudiced against him because he'd given him a B instead of an A, and despite that his paper was airtight.

To give the student credit, he was a very reasonable guy in most matters. But not when it came to that one thing.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
-- translations that, like the one you quote, often cast Nietzsche as antisemitic.
I'm not disagreeing here. I don't know the first thing about Neitzsche or his work but I've heard a native German speaker (Philip Metzinger) call him antisemitic and describe him as a foundational philosopher of nazism. Have you read anything that corroborates that view?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I'm not disagreeing here. I don't know the first thing about Neitzsche or his work but I've heard a native German speaker (Philip Metzinger) call him antisemitic and describe him as a foundational philosopher of nazism. Have you read anything that corroborates that view?

I don't know anything about Metzinger and even a bit of googling comes up with nothing. Can you tell me something more about him?

I could be wrong, but it's my impression that the notion Nietzsche was antisemitic, pro-German nationalist, and even a Nazi of some sort was largely the product of his sister who was all three of those things, and who purposely edited, altered, and fabricated parts of Nietzsche's writings to bring his views into line with her own.

Here are two links that might be of help in this context:

Nietzsche's criticism of anti-Semitism and nationalism

[The] 'Criminal' manipulation of Nietzsche by [his] sister to make him look anti-Semitic
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Personal accounts of Nietzsche represent him as a considerate man, someone who frequently displayed kindness to others. In fact, the immediate trigger for his insanity was to witness a horse being cruelly flogged.

Checkmate! I was literally moments away from asking you about this episode in his life. I had been pondering how to phrase the question, just when I read your remarks above concerning it.

Nietzsche seems to have been much more of a soft-hearted guy than his literary works let on, although glimmers of this humanitarian side to his character do show through on occasion in his writings, for instance The Gay Science, 13: "Certainly the state in which we hurt others is rarely as agreeable, in an unadulterated way, as that in which we benefit others; it is a sign that we are still lacking power, or it shows a sense of frustration in the face of this poverty." One notable scholar, after criticizing Nietzsche's philosophy of power, called the man himself a "genius of the heart"—referring to the compassionate conduct of his life "Pity," Nietzsche had wrote in one of his private letters, "has always been the major source of problems in my life," and he went on to admit and grieve over "a soft spot that would have made any magnanimous Greek burst into laughter."

Nietzsche recognized that "benefiting and [also] hurting others are [each] ways of exercising one’s power upon others". In other words, a true 'master' who has found the way to self-actualization knows that it is a sign of true power to be able to benefit rather than hurt other people. Simply put, Nietzsche was not the forefather of Social Darwinism, evidently, because he advocated non-harm as the higher path to power. Why do we get into the habit of being magnanimous or courteous to others? Because it feels good, it literally fills-us-up. Nietzsche argues that this is what it means to feel empowered, to be truly powerful. What about harmful acts? Nietzsche explains that the way of harm and cruelty “is a sign that we are still lacking power, or it shows a sense of frustration in the face of this poverty.” We cause pain to other people when we feel that we have a lack of power. This is what it means to be a petty tyrant, a Putin or Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot.

I really appreciate his insightful analysis in this respect.

Nevertheless, there is still a strange mismatch between his more extreme ethical positions in lieu of 'master morality,' and the way he actually conducted himself in his private life, which as you note is striking for his personal gentleness and aversion to cruelty. And yet, he came away with a few rather chilling statements like the following, which suggest the opposite. From the Kaufmann translation of The Antichrist ss.2 (I'm being careful with this now!):


"What is good? - All that heightens the feeling of power, power itself in man. What is bad - All that proceeds from weakness. What is Happiness? - The feeling that power increases - that a resistance is overcome. Not contentment, but more power; not peace at all, but war; not virtue, but proficiency (Virtuoso). The weak and ill-constituted shall perish: first principle of our philanthropy. And we shall help them do so. What is more harmful than any vice? - Active sympathy for the ill-constituted and weak - Christianity..."

This was not, contrary to appearances, philosophical sanction for Nazi-style involuntary euthanasia - 'mercy killing' - of so-called 'degenerate' people, before it became a thing at the dawn of the 20th century. He wasn't saying that the sick and weak should be gassed or lined up and shot.

However we cannot excuse this kind of reproachable talk, because he is very clear here that we should not have sympathy for these people or spend resources on them, rather we should leave them to die. In other words, don't actively exterminate them (like Hitler later would) but don't actively help them either (like a charity or social welfare system would) because that would be detrimental to the strong and healthy. It is hard not to view this as unacceptably callous and quite hypocritical, given that Nietzsche did not himself actually follow this code of conduct in his episode with the flogged horse.

But it was his attempt to revive the Graeco-Roman elitism. In his Republic (375 B.C.), even Plato (in the guise of his mentor Socrates) had proclaimed that the government should care for the health of the strong, while the weak should be left to die and those with little intelligence should be killed


Socrates:[9] These two practices [legal and medical] will treat the bodies and minds of those of your citizens who are naturally well endowed in these respects; as for the rest, those with a poor physical constitution will be allowed to die, and those with irredeemably rotten minds will be put to death. Right?

Glaucon: Yes, we’ve shown that this is the best course for those at the receiving end of the treatment as well as for the community.
(409e-410a)

Now, Nietzsche was explicitly reacting against Jesus's "active sympathy for the unhealthy and weak" and in favour of this earlier mindset i.e.


‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me...Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' (Matthew 25:31-46)


12 Then Jesus said to his host, "When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you". (Luke 14:12-24)​


In Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche writes of this that:


“… they [Christians] are likewise united in their religion of sympathy for whatever feels, lives, suffers (down to the animal, up to God — the excessive notion of ‘pity for God’ belongs in a democratic Age), they are all united in the cries and impatience of pity, in deadly hatred against all suffering. In general, in the almost feminine inability to sit watching, to let suffering happen… they are United in their faith of the morality of communal pity, as if it were morality itself, the height, the Achieved height of humanity, the sole hope for the future, the solace of the present, the great Redemption of all guilt from the past: — they are all united in their faith in the community as Redeemer, which is to say, in the herd, in themselves…” (BGE #202)

Yet when he saw the weak, powerless horse being abused...was his response to this more akin to his attitude in Antichrist: "The weak and ill-constituted shall perish And we shall help them do so," or to Jesus in the synoptic gospels, with regards to actively showing solidarity with the weak in their suffering? Did he not succumb to that "almost feminine inability to sit watching, to let suffering happen" which he had so vehemently condemned in Christians?

I read somewhere, can't (unfortunately) recall quite where, that Nietzsche's slide into absence of mind and psychological deterioration following the sight of that horse being badly abused, might have had something to do with a belated existential crisis over the fundamental disconnect between his 'master morality' and his own conscience, which was still (basically) informed by Christian clemency for the weak.

I think this literally drove him to a mental breakdown, because he realized in that moment that he couldn't live by the 'Plato-like', ancient Greek elitist values he had espoused. He was living a lie, essentially. He didn't want to "help" the poor horse to "perish" by refraining from standing in solidarity with it. He exhibited the Christ-like response to seeing the weak oppressed by the powerful, not the Antichrist one.

Nietzsche had proclaimed that modern ideas "of equality and sympathy for all that suffers" (Beyond Good and Evil 44) were but the latest manifestation of Christian ethical values, originating in a slave rebellion in morality that the modern world, after the death of god, had to reject in favour of the master, noble morality of the aristocratic Graeco-Roman elites whom the early Christians had objected to.

But when it came to the bit, Nietzsche felt overwhelming sympathy for the suffering horse. He was really at heart, instinctively, still a believer in the values of Jesus he'd longed railed against, and that realization destroyed him, because if he couldn't live by his own project then how could he possibly expect anyone else to do so?

His solution for the post-death of God world, to stave off nihilism with a revival of aristocratic values to fill the vacuum left behind by Christ's ethics, was dealt a body blow on a personal level to him and he therefore lost the will to go on. He had failed to protect the Turin horse from its abuser, despite trying with his arms around it, and so he was tipped over the edge of madness (he must have had health or other issues already predisposing him, like syphilis) and started declaring himself to be Jesus Christ, Buddha, Napoleon and other famous figures. And so he was sent to the asylum for the rest of his days.

It was a pitiful end.

We'll never know for sure if the horse story circulated far-and-wide soon after his death was the whole truth or not, but it sure does give food for thought and has a certain irony and poetic justice to it.
 
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lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
We should wait until the RFer who went by the name of "Nietzsche" on the Forum returns -- if he ever does. He knows far more about Frederick than I do.

Having said that, Nietzsche was very helpful in getting me interested in philosophy and in teaching me that the questions we ask when tackling a subject can be more fruitful than the answers.

I think you have to look in a mirror and say his name three times.
*Steels himself*

@Nietzsche , @Nietzsche , @Nietzsche
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Checkmate! I was literally moments away from asking you about this episode in his life. I had been pondering how to phrase the question, just when I read your remarks above concerning it.

Fascinating post, Sean! Much insight and food for thought there! Naturally, at some point in the future I'm going to steal some of your ideas and call them my own, but you're not to know that. Ok?

First off, I appreciate the fair-minded and careful distinction you make between Nietzsche's notion of allowing the "weak", etc to die, and Hitler's active eugenics. That distinction might be too subtle for some, but I believe it's important -- not because it shows Nietzsche in a better light (It's not a much better light at all) -- but because the two notions have such horrendously different outcomes in practice, as shown by the gas chambers.

Second, thanks for placing Nietzsche's views in their context within ancient Greek and Roman values. That's something I haven't myself thought much about, although the connections are obvious (But the obvious escapes me -- just ask my two ex wives!). It's a very helpful context for understanding the man.

Next, your insufferably brilliant and informative post goes right to one of the issues with Nietzsche that I have the most problems with: Some of his notions of human nature. Yes, yes, he was spot on about so many things. We all know he was a natural born psychologist. But what's often overlooked is how oblivious he could at times be to obvious facts of human nature.

Take, as just one example, his characterization of such things as taking care of the weak, the deformed, etc as "degenerate". You do not need to be a modern person knowledgeable in the evolutionary sciences, the humanities, psychology, etc to know how sublimely oblivious to fact that opinion of his was. It should have been obvious to any 19th Century person that it is soundly within the scope of basic human nature to be caregivers.

Today, with knowledge on the order of magnitudes greater than his, we can easily see how deeply rooted care giving is in our species, but even he should have known better. To deny what is so obviously for most of us in our genetic inheritance as humans -- the predisposition or instinct to provide care -- is the real degeneration, if one may use that word at all.

Also, I completely agree with you that Nietzsche's public attitude towards the weak, etc was morally reprehensible and inhumane. I almost wish he were still around so I could take him to task for that. To me, it shows something of the dangers of arriving at a settled opinion without adequate input and informed criticism from others of good will and mind. In my opinion, humans aren't really all that well adapted to arriving at sound opinions sans peer review. We can do it to an extent, but we so easily derail.

Personally, I don't make much of how Nietzsche's ideas conflicted with his own nature and so led to his insanity. You could be right, of course, but it's not something I myself see as being at all equal in significance to his mentally crippling disease. Of course, the whole issue cannot be decisively determined, so I must grant you have a point, even though I'm always right about these things.

Last, your quote of Nietzsche's notion, from The Gay Science, that a desire to harm betrays weakness took me way back to when I first began reading him at age 15. That very notion was one of my first "take aways" from his writings. Until now, I'd (all-too-conveniently) forgotten where I got the idea, and consequently had come to believe I came up with it myself. But you reminded me of when and just where I first discovered it. Oh well, I guess I'm not as brilliant as I thought I was. Drats! Who on earth could have suspected such a thing! Why, the very thought....

Thank you again for such a remarkably insightful bit of scholarship!
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Although I tend to think that Jesus would have made expenditure on the poor had He been born with the means to do so.
He literally had magic and yet never does anything "real" with it. Just a few "televangelist" type commercials for his ministry and you never hear from these people ever again. Why not Jedi Mind Trick the Romans into assisting with agriculture and hospitals?

edit: No, wait, realized I'm walking into this clip...
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Yeah. First up he's actually called Thomas. I'm a doughnut. :oops:

Thomas Metzinger - Wikipedia

I heard him on the Sam Harris podcast make the claims I mentioned.

Ok. now I know who you're talking about. Yeah, Jaiket, he's no kook. If he says Nietzsche was antisemitic, a German nationalist, and some kind of proto-Nazi, then I'm sure he has his reasons. I would just caution that he's most likely going against the grain of established scholarship, however. I'd listen to him, but not make up my mind about it until I heard the other side too, because there's a lot of weight on the other side.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Can you expand? What parts are garbage?

Let's start here.
Only those who suffer are good, only the poor, the powerless, the lowly are good; the suffering, the deprived, the sick, the ugly, are the only pious people, the only ones saved, salvation is for them alone, whereas you rich, the noble and powerful, you eternally wicked cruel, lustful, insatiate, godless, you will be eternally wretched, cursed and damned.......

The only way one can come to much of this conclussion is to eliminate contradictory scriptures to his conclussion, take it out of context or misapply its application.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
The only way one can come to much of this conclussion is to eliminate contradictory scriptures to his conclussion, take it out of context or misapply its application.
Or one could realize that he was a lot like a politician and rich-bashed to the poor people and sucked up to the ones funding him.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Below is a lengthy excerpt from Nietzche's infamous tirade (1888) against the moral principles espoused by Jesus in the New Testament, which he condemns for its assumed "slave morality".


http://www.lexido.com/EBOOK_TEXTS/THE_ANTICHRIST_.aspx?S=27

http://www.lexido.com/EBOOK_TEXTS/TWILIGHT_OF_THE_IDOLS_.aspx?S=8


How wretched is the New Testament, how foul it smells!...

Only those who suffer are good, only the poor, the powerless, the lowly are good; the suffering, the deprived, the sick, the ugly, are the only pious people, the only ones saved, salvation is for them alone, whereas you rich, the noble and powerful, you eternally wicked cruel, lustful, insatiate, godless, you will be eternally wretched, cursed and damned.......

The Jews achieved that miracle of inversion of values thanks to which life on earth has for a couple millennia acquired a new and dangerous fascination--their prophets fused 'rich', 'godless', 'evil', 'violent', 'sensual' into one and were the first to coin the word 'world' as a term of infamy. It is this inversion of values (with which is involved the employment of the word for 'poor' as a synonym for 'holy' and 'friend') that the significance of the Jewish people resides: with them there begins the slave revolt in morals...

Christianity, sprung from Jewish roots and comprehensible only as a growth on this soil, represents the counter-movement to any morality of breeding, of race, privilege: it is the anti-Aryan religion par excellence. Christianity — the revaluation of all Aryan values, the victory of chandala values, the gospel preached to the poor and base, the general revolt of all the downtrodden, the wretched, the failures, the less favored, against "race": the undying chandala hatred is disguised as a religion of love...

The phenomenon is of the first order of importance: the small insurrectionary movement which took the name of Jesus of Nazareth is simply the Jewish instinct redivivus...it is the discovery of a state of existence even more fantastic than any before it, of a vision of life even more unreal than that necessary to an ecclesiastical organization...

It was an insurrection against the whole hierarchy of society not against corruption, but against caste, privilege, order, formalism. It was unbelief in "superior men," a Nay flung at everything that priests and theologians stood for...

This saintly anarchist, who aroused the people of the abyss, the outcasts and "sinners," the Chandala [lowest classes, untouchables] of Judaism, to rise in revolt against the established order of things and in language which, if the Gospels are to be credited, would get him sent to Siberia today this man was certainly a political criminal, at least in so far as it was possible to be one in so absurdly unpolitical a community. This is what brought him to the cross: the proof thereof is to be found in the inscription that was put upon the cross. He died for his own sins there is not the slightest ground for believing, no matter how often it is asserted, that he died for the sins of others...

Primitive Christianity is abolition of the state: forbids oaths, war service, courts of justice, self-defense and the defense of any kind of community, the distinction between fellow countrymen and foreigners, and also the differentiation of classes . . . The gospel . . . [is] . . . the news that a gateway to happiness stands open for the poor and lowly—that all one has to do is free oneself from the institutions, traditions, guardianship, of the upper classes: to this extent the rise of Christianity is nothing more than the typical socialist doctrine...

Whoever says today: “I will not be a soldier,” “I care nothing for the courts,” “I shall not claim the services of the police,” “I will do nothing that may disturb the peace within me: and if I must suffer on that account, nothing will serve better to maintain my peace than suffering”—he would be a Christian...

Christians have never put into practice the acts Jesus prescribed for them, and the impudent chatter about “justification by faith” and its unique and supreme significance is only the consequence of the church’s lack of courage and will to confess the works which Jesus demanded.

Virulent strain of anti-Semitism and Christianophobia aside, do you think there was any truth to what Nietzsche said about Jesus and Christianity? Did he - even though speaking from a perspective of profound contempt for Christian ethics - have a point or not about the purported affinities between Jesusism and Socialism?

Nietzsche champions 'master morality' - strength of will, nobility, dominance of the weak by the strong - and scorns Christian principles, which he terms the prima facie historical manifestation of 'slave morality,' that is feeding the lowborn peasant's resentment of the rich and powerful (as he saw it). For this reason, he opines that: "The democratic movement is the heir to Christianity." Indeed, he went so far as to accuse Jesus of being the progenitor of Socialism: "The gospel . . . [is] . . . the news that a gateway to happiness stands open for the poor and lowly—that all one has to do is free oneself from the institutions, traditions, guardianship, of the upper classes: to this extent the rise of Christianity is nothing more than the typical socialist doctrine."

Granted, Nietzsche praised Jesus in his Antichrist as a free thinker: "one might actually call Jesus a "free spirit"—he cares nothing for what is established: the word killeth, whatever is established killeth. The idea of "life" as anexperience, as he alone conceives it, stands opposed to his mind to every sort of word, formula, law, belief and dogma. He speaks only of inner things: "life" or "truth" or "light" is his word for the innermost".

However, while he extolled Jesus's character and boldness of mind in taking a stand against 'formula, law, dogma' in favour of the so-called 'inner things,' he expressed profound disagreement with Jesus's actual teachings.

Peter Sjöstedt in his book Neo-Nihilism, explained Nietzsche's forceful critique as follows:


"Nietzsche contends that the objective morality that most western subjects put faith in today germinated two millennia ago with the advent of Christianity. When the Jews became subject to Roman rule, their means of overcoming that curtailment of power was the revaluation of Roman values, a revaluation that became the dominant religion of the world. Roman values were an example of what Nietzsche named ‘master morality’: a system that held characteristics such as strength, honour, pride, courage, fortitude, etc., as the highest of values.

A cult emerged which completely inversed master morality. It was a cult which preached weakness, humility, compassion, faith, hope, and charity to be the highest virtues. Such characteristics of course empowered the weak—those who needed charity, hope, equality, compassion given to them, a God who blessed them as being weak. A weakling who has nothing to be proud of will gain power by proliferating the view that humility is a virtue, pride a vice. ‘Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth’ Jesus said, Matthew reported.

This kind of ideology that empowers and ennobles the weak for being weak Nietzsche calls ‘slave morality’. It is weakness and mediocrity dressed as virtue. This inverted ideology quickly spread, despite the Roman criminalisation of it. Almost three centuries after Jesus’ alleged resurrection, Constantine legalised and converted to Christianity. Soon thereafter the Roman Empire fell.

This slave morality has now spread to two billion adherents after two millennia. Moreover, so ingrained in our culture is Christianity that the vast majority of those who proclaim their atheism still accept Christian morality as the only type of morality, as ‘common sense’, without acknowledging that it is only one type of morality: Christian slave morality.
"

There are superficial similarities but end at the surface,
Giving is voluntary not compulsory.
ultimately in the gospel there is a redistribution of real wealth - righteousness death
God has all the righteousness and we have all the sin
Socialism? stays away from that

Lamentaitons hope in adversity
 
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