But it's not illegal to exclude people who hold totalitarian beliefs, and its an easy case to make that Islam is totalitarian. Sharia is most definitely NOT secular, it's totalitarian.
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Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim guy
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
But it's not illegal to exclude people who hold totalitarian beliefs, and its an easy case to make that Islam is totalitarian. Sharia is most definitely NOT secular, it's totalitarian.
Have you got some evidence for these assertions?
800 million might say they do (this figure is obviously an extrapolation from survey data) but the number who actually understand the implications for them and their families and would really want to live under Sharia law is likely to be fewer (not least given that few Muslims really understand what Sharia law actually is and covers). Particularly among those who have become accustomed to living with the freedoms offered in Western countries.
And how many Christians wish to enshrine Biblical principles into the law of the land?
But, for the sake of the argument, if we take your earlier figures as a given, that means some 50% (or more) of Muslims don't want Sharia law. Ergo they don't have a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, so on this argument, I don't think we can say that all Islam is totalitarian.
No. There are liberal and conservative versions of Shariah. Also, obviously, Western laws are derived from Biblically grounded law codes that were prominent in late Rome, Byzantium and Medieval Europe. In most countries they have been modified and liberalized, same can and has been done in many Muslim countries as well.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
A lot of those problems are tied to made up conservative conspiracy theories, such as the no-go zones.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sharia-law-muslim-no-go-zones/
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What makes you think that 800 million Muslims actually want to live under Sharia Law? When given a choice I would bet the number is nowhere near that high.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
One of my favorite sources. And when it comes to fact checking too many people do it wrong. Quite often the write a leading phrase in their search bar and then find that of course the first few sites that they run across agree with them.
I know that you are aware of this but when fact checking how one asks one's question will affect the sources one gets. Neutral questions are best. Second check the credentials of those top sites that you see when fact checking. For example an apologist site is almost never a valid source., and they will come up at the top for many Bible questions.
dfnj
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with what you've said. People like Dawkins have no concept of human nature. If religion did not exist at all there would be just as many wars and senseless acts of violence. Wars and senseless acts of violence exist because of human nature. Religion did not invent human nature. Religion exists to try to tame our lesser angels and promote our better angels.
Abraham Lincoln
The other thing is what I don't like about this thread is the idea Muslims are violent. Or that Islam encourages violence. That is pure BS. Islam has the Golden Rule in many places in its religious texts:
“Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good – to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess [the slave]: For God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious” (Q:4:36)
In fact, the Quran goes beyond saying the Golden Rule by stating in more than four places that “Return evil with Kindness.” (13:22, 23:96, 41:34, 28:54, 42:40)
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH):
“None of you have faith until you love for your neighbor what you love for yourself” (Sahih Muslim)
“Whoever wishes to be delivered from the fire and to enter Paradise…should treat the people as he wishes to be treated.” (Sahih Muslim)
“None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself” (Forty Hadith-Nawawi)
“None of you is a believer if he eats his full while his neighbor hasn’t anything.” (Musnad)
“Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you, and reject for others what you would reject for yourselves.” (Abu Dawud)
“Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.” (Farewell Sermon)
“There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Ibn- Majah)
Maybe the reasons why the Muslims are so violent has nothing to do with religion. Maybe the reasons have to do with the fact we've bombed the Shiite out of them. In 2015 we dropped 23,000 bombs in the ME. In 2016 we dropped 28,000. In 2017 we dropped over 30,000. This year will be a new record. The US is dropping more bombs in the ME each year that were dropped in ALL of WWII. Check out this guy who's pregnant wife was killed by US bombing:
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-mosul-civilians-airstrike-20170324-story.html
I guarantee you this guy in this picture will be the next suicide bomber! Can you imagine if Russia was dropping 30,000 bombs every year over southern states in the United States. Red necks would be strapping on suicide bombs and probably being more violent than Muslims!
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Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
It gets a bit sickening after a while. Conservatives continually invent and then pass on made up stuff about minority groups in order to dehumanize and discredit them. Then they act stunned when people point out that it's kind of racist to do those things. Perhaps conservatives will start to wake up and start to appreciate facts a bit more.
The Quran is very inconsistent. I agree that there are many peaceful passages. But there are also many, many, many violent passages. So given the nature of the book, I'd say it's not very useful to cherry-pick a few verses, that can lead to an overall mischaracterization.
Of course this thread is about Muslims and Islam, so any cries of "racism" are nonsensical.
Large worldwide polls and polls done throughout Europe.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that there is no race component to some people's opposition to Islam?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You should link them. You may be misinterpreting them.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The guy Dawkins is interviewing also blames Israel for 9/11.
I'm sure that some people think of Muslims as a race, it's just that they're wrong when they do so.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Interesting, off the top of my head it looks like the more educated or diverse a country is the more likely that the Muslims in that country do not want Sharia law.