Perhaps because they are in the minority/have to in order to comply with the law/expectations within their country? Give them the power they desire, and things might turn out rather differently.
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Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim guy
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
Perhaps because they are in the minority/have to in order to comply with the law/expectations within their country? Give them the power they desire, and things might turn out rather differently.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Makes sense. No religion appears to be exempt from charges of not being a true fill in your religion here.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
That might be a good idea, although I'm not exactly sure where the "line" is between fundamentalist Islam and the rest of Islam. I definitely don't want to give the impression that I have a problem with all Muslims, because I don't have any problems with peaceful Muslims like you who respect the rights of those whose opinions differ from theirs. You and I could probably be good friends.
I hadn't heard that. Got any links?
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
There are political movements that want to force creationism into science classes. We are currently seeing religiously motivated backlashes against marriage equality. Those are two examples.
While different religions have different ways of seeing, fundamentalists who are extremists have extremism in common.
The vast majority of Muslims are not violent, but like Northern Ireland of not so distant memory, some of them are having an internecine feud which has come to involve the West. Pakistan has its problems, but once you're clear of the hill clans, the vast majority want peace. Indian Muslims don't do more violence than their Hindu counterparts. Malaysia and Indonesia have active anti-extremist policies in place. If you can demonize the whole of Islam because of civil war across the middle east, you can demonize the whole of Christianity because of Northern Ireland. And nothing in Syria can match the sickening murderous campaigns of the Thirty Years War.
I'm not sure we're very far apart here, but I don't like fundamentalists of any hue. I used to think Buddhists were peaceful folk till I became aware of the violence and bloodymindedness of their rightwing elements in southern Thailand and especially in Sri Lanka.
Of course it has. After the carnage of colonialism and the World Wars, this is nothing. Anyways, its the people of the Middle East who are suffering primarily. The impact in the West is negligible.
Yes. Let's be clear eyed here. Fundamentalists and intolerant people on opposing sides have near identical agenda and feed off each other, shrinking the space at the center. No leeway for any of them anywhere.
But it is learning from Christianity. Its the intolerant versions like evangelical and charismatic kinds that are gaining ground throughout the world are they not? The liberal Christianity is shrinking rapidly.
We have hate speech laws here. Their interpretation is not always perfect.
Argh, the "monolith" argument again, sigh. True, but there ARE significant blocks of Muslims who share attitudes about key ideas. E.g., about half the world's Muslims would like for Sharia to be the law of the land. That's certainly worthy of attention.
I've heard a fairly clean definition for Muslim fundamentalists: those who want Sharia to be the law of the land.
(And there are about 800 million such Muslims throughout the world, not just in Muslim majority countries.)
Sure but we're not required to allow them to immigrate.
And there many - primarily scattered around Europe - who are causing a lot of problems. From large grooming rings, to no-go zones, to militant mosques, to being on the dole. In Europe, Muslims are often not making a good case for Islam.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, but I would not too worked up over that. First it is overstated. Some might say that they want to live that way, but few really do. Reforms do and are happening.
Fair enough, but a bit different than folks who think legal proceedings should be judged by the clergy. The latter seems a seem escalation.
Do you have some initial thoughts about where this line might fall?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is illegal to exclude people based upon religious beliefs. One would have to exclude all immigrants to stop Muslims from coming over. Yes, we could do that, but I don't think you will find very many people that want no more immigrants whatsoever.
800 million is a big number, not a "few".
The definition I use (not original with me) is: A Muslim fundamentalist wants Sharia to be the law of the land. That's about 800 million Muslims worldwide.