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Revelation 21:1

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
First of all, What does the book of Genesis have to do with Revelation 21:1


Ok, God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning.
Now can you explain exactly when God created the heaven and the earth.

If you had notice, In Genesis 1:1 it doesn't say when God created the heaven and the earth, only in the beginning.
No doubt you haven't a clue or idea when that was. All because throughout the Bible, There's nothing said when God created the heaven and the earth.
I know, but you will try and twist things in the Bible to say what you want it to say.

But then you would have to give what book of the Bible and chapter and verses. That would say, when God created the heaven and the earth. But then there's nothing written saying when God created the heaven and the earth.

If you had notice the heaven and the earth was already there, way before God created anything else.
So the question is, When did God create the heaven and the earth ?

I referenced Genesis, because you didn't seem to know when the first heaven and earth was created. It shows that the first earth, when God created it had a sea. ( you said in your post that the first earth had no sea - I showed that it did) We are on that same earth now. When the Messiah returns the earth and everything on it will be burned up. During the time of Peter, he said we were still looking for a new heaven and earth.

John saw where the first heaven and earth had passed away, and there was a new heaven and earth, and there was no longer a sea. I don't understand why you don't just accept what the scripture says.

I also asked you for scriptures proving the points you were trying to make, and you still haven't provided any.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I referenced Genesis, because you didn't seem to know when the first heaven and earth was created. It shows that the first earth, when God created it had a sea. (which is conflicting with what you said in your post) We are on that same earth now. When the Messiah returns the earth and everything on it will be burned up. During the time of Peter, he said we were still looking for a new heaven and earth.

All it says in Genesis 1:1 ( In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Now notice it doesn't say when God created the heaven and the earth.
All it says is ( In the beginning ) but it doesn't say when.
Of matter of fact, the earth was already there,
But the question is, Why was water covering the whole earth.
Now why would an all powerful God create the earth and then cover it with water, and then come back to have the land appear out of the water.
Seeing the land was already there before God covered the earth with water.

John saw when the first heaven and earth had passed away, and there was a new heaven and earth, and there was no longer a sea. I don't understand why you don't just accept what the scripture says.

Can you explain exactly when the first heaven and first earth was, What is John talking about exactly.

I also asked you for scriptures proving the points you were trying to make, and you still haven't provided any.

Tell me what exactly is Jeremiah 4:22-26, talking about here in these Verses.

If you notice in Verse 23, that this is saying the same thing as Genesis 1:2 is saying,

Genesis 1:2--"And the earth was without form and void"
Jeremiah 4:23--"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form and void"
Notice you will find the word
( was ) the same word ( was ) in
Genesis 1:2 .
The Hebrew Translation 1961-1933, of the word ( was ) is ( became )

So Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23, would read as follows
( And the earth ( became ) without form , and void )
So the question is, What happened that the earth ( became) without form and void ?

Have you any idea what happened to the earth, That the earth ( became ) without form and void

What does the scriptures tell you, Why the earth (became) without form and void.
 
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TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
Tell me what exactly is Jeremiah 4:22-26, talking about here in these Verses.

If you notice in Verse 23, that this is saying the same thing as Genesis 1:2 is saying,

Genesis 1:2--"And the earth was without form and void"
Jeremiah 4:23--"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form and void"
Notice you will find the word
( was ) the same word ( was ) in
Genesis 1:2 .
The Hebrew Translation 1961-1933, of the word ( was ) is ( became )

So Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23, would read as follows
( And the earth ( became ) without form , and void )
So the question is, What happened that the earth ( became) without form and void ?

Have you any idea what happened to the earth, That the earth ( became ) without form and void

What does the scriptures tell you, Why the earth (became) without form and void.

In your post 43 above, you added in some things I didn't say, and it makes it look like I said them. Please don't do that.

It doesn't matter if we can prove exactly when the beginning was or not. The point is, that is when the first earth was created, and there was a sea. And we are currently on that same earth. There will be a new heaven and earth, which won't have a sea. Peter said in his days that we were still looking for the new heaven and earth. John saw in prophesy that the first heaven and earth passed away,and there was a new heaven and earth, and there was no more sea.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
In your post 43 above, you added in some things I didn't say, and it makes it look like I said them. Please don't do that.

It doesn't matter if we can prove exactly when the beginning was or not. The point is, that is when the first earth was created, and there was a sea. And we are currently on that same earth. There will be a new heaven and earth, which won't have a sea. Peter said in his days that we were still looking for the new heaven and earth. John saw in prophesy that the first heaven and earth passed away,and there was a new heaven and earth, and there was no more sea.

In the first heaven and earth age, there was no sea on the earth. But there was a sea.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
In the first heaven and earth age, there was no sea on the earth. But there was a sea.

Ok lets keep it simple in regards to Revelation 21:1 - Has the first heaven and earth passed away? Yes or No

If you say No, then I am right and we are still living on the first earth.

If you say Yes, then how can there be a sea? Because John said after the first heaven and earth passed away, that he saw a new heaven and earth, and there was no more sea.

Also where is your scripture proving what you said above?
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Ok lets keep it simple in regards to Revelation 21:1 - Has the first heaven and earth passed away? Yes or No

If you say No, then I am right and we are still living on the first earth.

If you say Yes, then how can there be a sea? Because John said after the first heaven and earth passed away, that he saw a new heaven and earth, and there was no more sea.

Also where is your scripture proving what you said above?

The first heaven and Earth age, that pass away was the world of the dinosaurs
Where else do you think the dinosaurs bones came from.

We are living in the second earth age. The third earth age will come at Christ Jesus second coming. Which Jesus will establish his kingdom here on earth.

Unless you understand the three earth ages, you will not understand what the Bible Confirm's.

Peter spoke about the first earth age,
In 2nd Peter Chapter 3.
How the world that then was, being over flowed with water perished.
This is not the flood of Noah's.

If you notice the word ( perished ) this means that there was nothing left over, but everything Perished.
Unlike the flood of Noah's there were 8 souls saved alive.
But here in 2nd Peter 3, there was nothing saved, but all Perished.

You do know what the word ( Perished )
Means ---> Perish definition is - to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist.

2nd Peter chapter 3 is not the flood of Noah's. Seeing the flood of Noah's there were 8 souls saved alive.
But here in 2nd Peter 3, there was nothing saved, all perished.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
The first heaven and Earth age, that pass away was the world of the dinosaurs
Where else do you think the dinosaurs bones came from.

We are living in the second earth age. The third earth age will come at Christ Jesus second coming. Which Jesus will establish his kingdom here on earth.

Unless you understand the three earth ages, you will not understand what the Bible Confirm's.

Peter spoke about the first earth age,
In 2nd Peter Chapter 3.
How the world that then was, being over flowed with water perished.
This is not the flood of Noah's.

If you notice the word ( perished ) this means that there was nothing left over, but everything Perished.
Unlike the flood of Noah's there were 8 souls saved alive.
But here in 2nd Peter 3, there was nothing saved, but all Perished.

You do know what the word ( Perished )
Means ---> Perish definition is - to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist.

2nd Peter chapter 3 is not the flood of Noah's. Seeing the flood of Noah's there were 8 souls saved alive.
But here in 2nd Peter 3, there was nothing saved, all perished.

So you essentially said yes, that the first heaven and earth passed away. Proving you are wrong, because John said when that happened there would be a new heaven and earth, with no more sea.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
So you essentially said yes, that the first heaven and earth passed away. Proving you are wrong, because John said when that happened there would be a new heaven and earth, with no more sea.

I said yes to the first heaven and first earth age of the dinosaurs pass away.

We are now in the second earth age.

The third earth age which is the new heaven and New earth, will come at the second coming of Christ Jesus to establish his kingdom here on earth.

Have you any idea as to why there will not be no sea on earth ?
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
I said yes to the first heaven and first earth age of the dinosaurs pass away.

We are now in the second earth age.

The third earth age which is the new heaven and New earth, will come at the second coming of Christ Jesus to establish his kingdom here on earth.

Have you any idea as to why there will not be no sea on earth ?

Right, so you are finally acknowledging we are still on the first earth that was created. Because there is a difference between saying a new earth and a new earth age.

Provide some scripture where it says there are 3 earth ages. How do you know there aren't 4 or 8 or even 16 earth ages? You can't just make stuff up, with no scripture to back it, and expect people to believe you.

You said everything was destroyed by a flood previous to that of Noah's day. First of all how can you prove that 1 Peter 3:4-7 was not talking about the flood of Noah's day? The only flood I know of mentioned in the scriptures was that of Noah's day.

When you say it was destroyed previous to Noah's flood, Did all the creatures in the sea die? If so, how
? Remember I already showed you in Genesis, that God had created seas originally.

The only reason I know, as to why there will be no more sea, is because that's how God said it will be.

Also please give a yes or no answer to my question - Has the first heaven and earth passed away?
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Right, so you are finally acknowledging we are still on the first earth that was created. Because there is a difference between saying a new earth and a new earth age.

Provide some scripture where it says there are 3 earth ages. How do you know there aren't 4 or 8 or even 16 earth ages? You can't just make stuff up, with no scripture to back it, and expect people to believe you.

You said everything was destroyed by a flood previous to that of Noah's day. First of all how can you prove that 1 Peter 3:4-7 was not talking about the flood of Noah's day? The only flood I know of mentioned in the scriptures was that of Noah's day.

When you say it was destroyed previous to Noah's flood, Did all the creatures in the sea die? If so, how
? Remember I already showed you in Genesis, that God had created seas originally.

The only reason I know, as to why there will be no more sea, is because that's how God said it will be.

Also please give a yes or no answer to my question - Has the first heaven and earth passed away?

How do I know that 2nd Peter Chapter 3 is not talking about the flood of Noah's.

Because common sense will tell you, That in Verse 6--"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished"

Notice the word ( Perished ) Common Sense will tell you, The word Perished means -- Perish definition is - to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist.

Therefore 2nd Peter Chapter 3 is not about the flood of Noah's.
Seeing that 2nd Peter Chapter 3, The world that then was Perished, meaning nothing was left alive, everything cease to exist.

As for the flood of Noah's, there were 8 souls saved alive. So we know 2nd Peter Chapter 3 is not talking about the flood of Noah's.
Seeing how the world that then was Perished. Meaning Cease to Exist, That there was nothing saved alive.

Yes the first heaven and the first earth of the dinosaurs passed away.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
How do I know that 2nd Peter Chapter 3 is not talking about the flood of Noah's.

Because common sense will tell you, That in Verse 6--"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished"

Notice the word ( Perished ) Common Sense will tell you, The word Perished means -- Perish definition is - to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist.

Therefore 2nd Peter Chapter 3 is not about the flood of Noah's.
Seeing that 2nd Peter Chapter 3, The world that then was Perished, meaning nothing was left alive, everything cease to exist.

As for the flood of Noah's, there were 8 souls saved alive. So we know 2nd Peter Chapter 3 is not talking about the flood of Noah's.
Seeing how the world that then was Perished. Meaning Cease to Exist, That there was nothing saved alive.

Yes the first heaven and the first earth of the dinosaurs passed away.

Genesis 6:7-13 God said The end of all flesh has come before me... and behold, I will destroy them with the earth in verse 13. These verses fit 2nd Peter Chapter 3 ,even though you say they don't. What you think is common sense is leading you astray.

Can you not see that the world that then was, was overflowed with water, and perished (you said it meant to become destroyed)? That's what God said he was going to do - destroy them with the earth.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Genesis 6:7-13 God said The end of all flesh has come before me... and behold, I will destroy them with the earth in verse 13. These verses fit 2nd Peter Chapter 3 ,even though you say they don't. What you think is common sense is leading you astray.

Can you not see that the world that then was, was overflowed with water, and perished (you said it meant to become destroyed)? That's what God said he was going to do - destroy them with the earth.

Genesis 6:7-13, is about the flood of Noah's, Which has nothing to do with
2nd Peter Chapter 3.

In the flood of Noah's, there were 8 people and animals that survived.

As for 2nd Peter Chapter 3, nothing survived, everything Perished. Cease to Exist.

So you have two totally different floods of water that happened.

The first flood nothing survived, everything Perished.

The second flood of Noah's,
8 people and animals survived.

Totally two different floods happened.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Revelation 21:1--"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the
first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea"

Upon reading this, What do you make of it?

I believe 'new" here means remodeled. I believe Jesus said even He wouldn't be around for the extinguishing of the earth but He does plan to return to the remodeled earth.

I believe the "no more sea" could refer to something local like the Red Sea or the Sea of Galilee.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I think you need to add the rest to make sense of the context. The key to decipher the meaning of that verse in actually in verse 4:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes,+ and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.The former things have passed away.”

There is a lot of symbolism in those verses. The physical earth and ocean are not going to disappear, but the way things are done over here is going to change radically. Revelation is a book of prophecy that lists a number of events that will culminate in the elimination of human governments and the coming of Jesus Christ as a King who will rule over the heavens and the earth.
The "new heaven" refers to that new kingdom and the "new earth" to a new human society that that will be in subjection of Jesus as a King.

I believe that has no basis in reality and is false interpretation.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
My best guess is he'd probably been out in the Greek sun to long

I believe guesses don't qualify as rational.

The evidence is that a book was written and a long one at that so that requires a good deal of focus which time in the sun would make impossible.
 
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