What I do know is what he said publicly and no one disagreed. On the basis of "believe the best until otherwise proven wrong", I have no reason to doubt it.
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What are your views on Pastors living lavishly?
- Thread starter Epic Beard Man
- Start date
You don't have to as I've already done the homework: I gotta Catholic wife and now I'm living in poverty.
I now have 10 grandchildren and my wife wants to give it all... I understand
They didn't disagree about "salary." We know that he's received much more from his church than just what was considered salary. You haven't given anything that says he paid back everything.
Anyone here who has read my past posts regarding these so called prosperity, televangelist, megachurch rolling in the dough type preachers know what I think of them. I have never begrudged anyone making an honest living getting paid well. But these kind of lowlifes are basically selling Jesus. And I don't believe that Christ ever intended to be made into a for profit yet still no tax mega corporation.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ah, ya got me beat by 2 but with the same effect.
I now have 10 grandchildren and my wife wants to give it all... I understand
Any Christian who proselytizes is selling Jesus.
Based on my reading of the Gospels, I don't believe that Jesus intended for Christianity to be mainstream enough that it could shape public policy, but here we are.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
My concern isn't them telling god doesn't want them to get better, it's the implications that their "faith isn't strong/good enough" to receive healing. Both are very destructive though, and pointless to weigh which does more damage. It happens, and it should never happen when addressing mental or physical health.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
First claim:
Luke 12:15; Matthew 6:19-24
Second claim
Mark 10:21
Third claim:
Mark 10:25
Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
Doesn't say riches are wrong, just beware of covetousness and in life and life is not measured in how much or how little one has.
Matt: 619 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.=23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
They key the end and can be seen in multiple people's lives. You can't be serving God if you serve mammon. If you have a gift that brings riches to you and you are rich in helping people (take Tebow for an example or even Bill Gates) then you are serving God with your money and are laying up treasures in Heaven. If your eye is evil then it is all about money, if your eye is good you will be rich in good works.
Here were I said yes but no: Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
True, for this man Jesus pinpointed his problem... he was serving money because he couldn't let go of it... but notice it differs from another person:
Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Notice that Jesus didn't say "NOPE, you have to give it ALL". Why? He was serving God and not money and had no problem letting go of it.
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.=29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
out of context.
1) Impossible for men but not with God. So with God it is possible.
2) Peter said "we left it all" - Jesus responded, "then I will multiply it an hundredfold now in this time". Peter didn't have a problem with money
3) With the rich man in Matt 6, he forgot his scriptures of what happens to people who consider the poor.
So, ultimately God has no problem with people having riches as long as they are rich in giving (a spiritual principle in both Testaments). If riches have you, that's a different story.
These can be verified by multiple scriptures and people'sl lives in the Bible and not to mention promises given by God.
I see where he says he doesn't get a salary any more. I don't see where he says his house isn't paid for any more.
So you understand what has gone on, here's a description of Saddleback Church's practice in the years leading up to Warren's court case, as documented in the judge's opinion ("the petitioner" is Warren). Take note of the part I bolded:
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjAHegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZHPnkQB42VAut4vWofH3F
Gotcha. Yes it doesn't say specifically. But I would gather he did (although you can believe he didn't) for the following reasons.
At least (from the time of Forbes):
“I drive a 12 year old Ford, have lived in the same house for the last 22 years, bought my watch at Wal-Mart, and I don’t own a boat or a jet,” says Warren.
“I’ve been a volunteer Pastor for the last 10 years now,” said Warren. (that means no housing allowance IMV)
But I understand what you are saying
The IRS decided that his house had a fair rental value of almost $60,000/year in 1995. How much do you think his house is worth now? Keep in mind this is Orange County, where home prices have tripled since 2000.
And remember that someone can honestly say "I don't own a boat or jet" when they just rent them... or when the church owns them and they use them for free.
I wouldn't make that assumption.
It's worth pointing out that I see Rick Warren as a bit of a scumbag, so I think I'm being generous by not assuming that he's just flat-out lying.
Thanks.
godnotgod
Thou art That
The old Christian ethic used to be: "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
But that is now: "If you are poor, that is your fault, because you did not do the right Christian thing, so God did not reward you with a mansion, fine cars, gourmet food and drink, fine clothing, a cushy job, and a nice wife and family like like I have."
But that is now: "If you are poor, that is your fault, because you did not do the right Christian thing, so God did not reward you with a mansion, fine cars, gourmet food and drink, fine clothing, a cushy job, and a nice wife and family like like I have."
When was this “used to be” you’re talking about?
I was listening to a podcast about the Baltic Crusades - they described the knights having a similar attitude to what you describe... not the fine cars so much, but they would see victory and plunder as signs of God’s favour.
That was the 1200s. Were you thinking of some time before that?
godnotgod
Thou art That
Matthew 5:5-9
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Jesus, from the Sermon on the Mount
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:5-9&version=ESV
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
You call it making excuses. I call it being realistic.
http://work.chron.com/much-episcopal-priest-make-3396.html
They get paid like schoolteachers in smaller towns. This is like giving a tax break to a farmer (which the government also does, for self-employment). Oh sure, some make more. They have big congregations. Six figures? Nah, not unless you're Joel Osteen.
So if you want to kick around schoolteachers, who btw many also tithe (give 10% income) to the church like their parishioners, I expect you to explain yourself. Cuz that's what you're doing. These are people that donate to all kinds of charities, and you want to take their money, because you're jealous or something. You're a horrible person, btw.
Btw, they don't live totally tax free.
Out of $50k, only $20k would be non-taxable. That is not tax-free, it's just limited taxes.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
This
I meant when in history do you think Christians followed this?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
The thread contains attacks regarding a very, very few elders who live inappropriately. Most of the ones I've ever encountered live sacrificially, for the sake of others. Your comments?