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Why do Christians believe that Jesus is God?

Genna

Member
Katzpur said:
Evidently, I'm not explaining myself very well. I'm sorry, but I've done the best I can. About all I can say is what I've already said: "God" and "Godhead" are synonyms. The Father and the Son are so perfectly and absolutely united in will and purpose, either one of them can use the pronoun "I" or "me" and mean "we" or "us."

I'm quite sure my beliefs contradict orthodox Christianity. I have no desire whatsoever to be considered orthodox and, as a Christian, my belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ automatically contradicts the Islamic concept of God. But hinduism? :biglaugh:Give me a break! I see my understanding of the nature of God as being entirely consistent with what the Bible teaches. I actually think my explanation is far more logical than the Trinitarian one. But, to each his own.

Not really, but don't bother explaining. I don't really care whether you believe in Him or not. :D

either one of them can use the pronoun "I" or "me" and mean "we" or "us."?
LOL!!!!!!! So God at times refers to Himself as "we" and somentimes "me" right? It seems to me that your God has a split personality and a bit schizoid. Does your husband refer to himself as "me" in social situations and then at times refers to himself as "we" in social situations? yeah........ummm yeah! LOL!!!!!!
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Genna said:
either one of them can use the pronoun "I" or "me" and mean "we" or "us."?
LOL!!!!!!! So God at times refers to Himself as "we" and somentimes "me" right? It seems to me that your God has a split personality and a bit schizoid. Does your husband refer to himself as "me" in social situations and then at times refers to himself as "we" in social situations? yeah........ummm yeah! LOL!!!!!!
Genna,

Since you first started posting, I have responded to your questions to the best of my ability. I have never criticized your lack of faith in God, nor have I been judgmental towards you in the slightest. I'm a reasonably intelligent person and it's not difficult for me to distinguish between someone who is sincerely trying to understand my belief system and someone who is simply trying to be argumentative. Faith is a highly personal thing, and I am very much aware that it would be impossible for me to adequately explain to you why I believe as I do. However I have found, over the years, that any dialogue on religious beliefs is pointless if both parties cannot be tolerant of beliefs that don't make a lot of sense to them. So far, I see you making absolutely no effort whatsoever to do anything but ridicule and denegrade that which I hold sacred. Since you've demonstated a total lack of common courtesy to date, I see this conversation as going absolutely nowhere. My time is far too valuable to waste talking to someone whose idea of clever rhetoric is calling my God "a bit schizoid."

Kathryn
 

Genna

Member
Katzpur said:
Genna,

Since you first started posting, I have responded to your questions to the best of my ability. I have never criticized your lack of faith in God, nor have I been judgmental towards you in the slightest. I'm a reasonably intelligent person and it's not difficult for me to distinguish between someone who is sincerely trying to understand my belief system and someone who is simply trying to be argumentative. Faith is a highly personal thing, and I am very much aware that it would be impossible for me to adequately explain to you why I believe as I do. However I have found, over the years, that any dialogue on religious beliefs is pointless if both parties cannot be tolerant of beliefs that don't make a lot of sense to them. So far, I see you making absolutely no effort whatsoever to do anything but ridicule and denegrade that which I hold sacred. Since you've demonstated a total lack of common courtesy to date, I see this conversation as going absolutely nowhere. My time is far too valuable to waste talking to someone whose idea of clever rhetoric is calling my God "a bit schizoid."

Kathryn

I am not trying to be argumentative and am making every possible effort to try and understand the theological concept of God. I am simply using deductive reasoning, do you despise good logic? It seems as though you do from your posts. Ever consider to yourself that your concept of God may be flawed? Most people are complacent with their belief that they will never be subject to change in their theological stance, even when their premise is filled with holes. I am sorry if you perceived me to be rude, as I said, I am searching for answers, and if you feel as if I am wasting your precious time then don't respond to me. I will look for answers elswhere!:(
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Katzpur said:
So were the bishops whose beliefs were overruled by the majority also being guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't know.
As I said before, my beliefs and interpretation of the Bible are not dictated by what a religion or sect or denomination or creed say they should be. My guidance comes from the the Bible (aka The Word of God) itself and the Holy Spirit.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Genna said:
I am not trying to be argumentative and am making every possible effort to try and understand the theological concept of God.
:areyoucra
Genna said:
Most people are complacent with their belief that they will never be subject to change in their theological stance, even when their premise is filled with holes.
You are right, many people do. But most of those who are truly passionate about their beliefs, like many folks on this forum, are hardly complacent!
Genna said:
I am sorry if you perceived me to be rude...
You shoot down and ridicule almost every answer to the many quesions you have posed on this board. Despite that, many posters have given you the benefit of the doubt that you truly ARE trying to find answers and thus have not responded in kind to your rudeness and ridicule....

Hmmmm ..... could this possibly be proof that at least a few of us DO care about what you believe and DO care that you want to figure out how to have eternal forgiveness and eternal life?

:hug:
 

may

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
The Bible is also a "manmade" document. Many are mislead by incorrect interpretation of it.

quote] the bible is the inspired word of God, and yes i agree that many are misled by incorrect interpretation ,and also by incorrect translation of it , but hey no worries, as Daniel 12;4 tells us, the true knowledge will become abundant in the last days , and according to bible prophecy we have been living in the last days since 1914 , and the true knowledge certainly is becoming abundant, in more ways than one. Good translations are our there , this is one of the best in my point of view New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Strunk and White Principle of Composition Rule #17: Omit needless words.

BAM!!!

All "doctrine" really means is "teaching." Jesus' teachings were His doctrines. Are you saying all doctrines are man-made?

Yes, because (as Trinitarian theology correctly states) Jesus was fully human.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
sojourner said:
Yes, because (as Trinitarian theology correctly states) Jesus was fully human.
Okay, I believe He was fully human, too. So, we can get that issue out of the way right up front. But, are you saying that Jesus' doctrines were therefore "man-made," and no more correct than any other "man-made" doctrines?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Katzpur said:
Okay, I believe He was fully human, too. So, we can get that issue out of the way right up front. But, are you saying that Jesus' doctrines were therefore "man-made," and no more correct than any other "man-made" doctrines?

Jesus was fully human, just as the Prophet, Seer and Revelator is fully human. Jesus was inspired by the Holy Spirit, just as we are inspired by the Holy Spirit. The mode of manufacture has nothing to do with "more correctness." The fact that we take them as "correct" has more to do with the fact that we are disciples of a teacher, and we follow his precepts. Where I find a subsequent teaching to differ from what I perceive Jesus' teaching to be, I do not follow it. Where I find a subsequent teaching to be congruent, I follow it.
 

writer

Active Member
-God at times refers to Himself as "we" and somentimes "me" right?
Right. Genesis 1:26-27. Isaiah 6:8. Etc

-It seems to me that your God has a split personality and a bit schizoid.
It seems to me that God's 3-1

-Does your husband refer to himself as "me" in social situations and then at times refers to himself as "we" in social situations? yeah........ummm yeah! LOL!!!!!!
Mebbe her husband's not God
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Snowbear said:
Also - you are absolutely and unconditionally forgiven by for the StewpidLoser jab. Also - you have my permission to keep using my 'old' username if it makes you feel better about yourself. Really! No sarcasm and no joke intended. I actually like it when folks feel better about themselves :D

This is getting out of hand, do you have to detract from the thread everytime that something is said? I know I'm being hypocritical, but how about be the bigger person ignore the jabs, or off-topic discussion and be the bigger person for once?

Once, I know I'm being hypocritical, but why not?
 
John chapter 1 and other places in the Bible make it clear that Jesus Christ is God. The Bible also makes it clear that God is more than one person. In Genesis, God said, "Let us make man in our image".

The relationship between God the Father and Jesus Christ is a family relationship, and God is the family name. As an illustration, you can have two men, John Smith and Fred Smith in the same family. John Smith is the father of Fred Smith. Both can be called Mr. Smith because Smith is the family name, but they are two persons, but one family.

Likewise, God is a family. There is only one God, in other words, one family, and the whole family is named after the Father, God.

Depending on the context, God can refer to God the Father or to Jesus Christ. But there is one God because Christ and the Father are one family, united, and sharing the same family name.
 
In context,Jesus wasn't God, we know that because he said so himself ;)

Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )

Jesus said - "Why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

High Priest asks - "Are you the Son of God?" Jesus replies - "I am" (Mark 14:61)

Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

"My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me" (John 7:17)

"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." (Luke 23:46)

God himself said - "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" (Matt 3:17)

And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God, yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?
 

sparkyluv

Member
Genna said:
Why do Christians believe that Jesus is God? I am not a Christian but read the bible and can't seem to see where Christians believe that Jesus is God. My co-workers point to John 1:1, but how do they explain these verses?

John 17:3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Christ cannot be the true God since Jesus Himself stated that His Father is the only True God. How does one challenge this?

1 Corinthians 8:5,6 - For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Here again they say that to "us" the apostles and Christians there is one God who is the "Father", thus it would exclude Jesus from being the One God, how does one challenge this? Notice how it also says that there are many lords just as there are many kings, but then says that there is ONE LORD and ONE GOD who is the Father, not Christ. How do you Christians explain this?
Christians believe that because it says so in the bible:
John 1
John 8:58
John 10:30

Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the trinity. They are 3 in 1.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Snowbear said:
Also - you are absolutely and unconditionally forgiven by for the StewpidLoser jab.
Well, as some people say, forgiveness is the best revenge. Personally, when I forgive someone, I'm not looking for revenge; I'm looking for peace of mind and a heart not burdened by anger. But whatever floats your boat, my dear. Always happy to oblige. :D

Also - you have my permission to keep using my 'old' username if it makes you feel better about yourself. Really! No sarcasm and no joke intended. I actually like it when folks feel better about themselves :D
Nah, my self-esteem is doing quite well, thank you very much. I've never thought of myself as a "Stewpid Loser." And if you hadn't reminded everybody of your former user name, I don't think one in a hundred posters would have even picked up on my use of the initials.
 
The Trinity is like an oyster, God and Jesus are the two halves sharing the same guts- the holy spirit.
I have no problem at all with that "separate but-one" concept..
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
sparkyluv said:
Christians believe that because it says so in the bible:
John 1
John 8:58
John 10:30

Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the trinity. They are 3 in 1.
What sparky said :D
 

may

Well-Known Member
John chapter 1 and other places in the Bible make it clear that Jesus Christ is God. The Bible also makes it clear that God is more than one person. In Genesis, God said, "Let us make man in our image".

quote] yes he was talking to his first-born son Jesus, Jesus had a pre-human life in heaven with his father Jehovah and that is who Jehovah God was talking too.
From the start, God’s Son received a unique assignment, that of being "master worker" alongside his Father. What joy this brought to Jehovah! "I came to be the one he [Jehovah] was specially fond of day by day," notes Proverbs 8:30, adding, "I being glad before him all the time."
Jehovah later invited his firstborn Son to share in the creation of humankind. "Let us make man in our image," he declared, "according to our likeness." (Genesis 1:26) As a result, another fondness developed. "The things I was fond of," explained the prehuman Jesus, "were with the sons of men." (Proverbs 8:31)
 

verita

Member
Jesus Christ is God because…
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God the Father Almighty “said” to his son, God the Son listen to his Father and “made”.

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
 
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