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Can God's ways be known?

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
At first glance these verses do seem to say that we can never know our God, that He is just too far above us to comprehend. By accepting that God is incomprehensible it becomes easy to accept impossibilities such as the trinity, transubstantiation, the saints in heaven, and many other non-biblical ideas. Nobody can possibly understand let alone comprehend three beings in one, but if God is taken to be above our understanding it can, and has unfortunately become the "cornerstone "of the Christian doctrine.
I totally agree that mainstream Christianity is guilty of making God unknowable, and as soon as we are convinced that we can't know God, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. God is our Father in Heaven. What kind of father would not want his children to know him?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Looks like we started studying about the same time and a good 45 years it's been.

I would add that studying the Word is not exactly what gets us approved. In the course of our study we must rightly divide it. That's what gets us approved as workmen of God. You probably knew that, but maybe it would have taken more than 3 sentences to say it. I trust you understand I'm kidding around about the 3 sentence limit.

Yes that's quite alright. If a may ask, do you know what it means, to rightly divide the word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15.

Well we know God's word is truth.
So what does Paul mean by rightly dividing the word of Truth ?

Let's for say, that I'm listening to a pastor, Now as he speaks, to pick out the error from the truth, that's rightly dividing the word truth. In knowing truth from error.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
No, that's fine. Just as long as we're clear. You all love each other so much that you spend all your time trying to correct each other. That's really sweet and totally not condescending to each other.
Well that's a pretty condescending reply. Would you have said that to Paul for calling the Galatians fools for not believing correctly (Gal 3:1)?
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Yes that's quite alright. If a may ask, do you know what it means, to rightly divide the word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15.

Well we know God's word is truth.
So what does Paul mean by rightly dividing the word of Truth ?

Let's for say, that I'm listening to a pastor, Now as he speaks, to pick out the error from the truth, that's rightly dividing the word truth. In knowing truth from error.
Rightly dividing the Word? Good question.

It's quite common talk speak about my interpretation, your interpretation, so and so's interpretation and so forth. I believe that nobody's interpretation is worth a plug nickel. Instead the Word interprets itself. Most of the time all we need to do is read what's written in the verse. What interpretation is required when I read John 3:16? Not much. It pretty much says what it means and means what it says. But sometimes we need to take the context into account. Indeed, that was the key to understand Is 55:8 & 9, the subject of this thread. Without context it seems to say, and is usually taught, that we can't know God. But just going back 1 verse, it is clear that the wicked are the ones who can't know God. Sometimes context isn't enough to get to the meaning. Perhaps we need to see where a particular word or phrase was used before. Many guess at Paul's thorn in the flesh. Sickness, blindness, a speech impediment, and a bunch of other ideas are tossed around. Well, see if thorns in the flesh are used somewhere else where it would be clear as to what it is. Turns out it is used in the Old Testament a few times and in each instance it clearly refers to people obstructing the movement of God's people. Would it not then follow that Paul's thorn in the flesh was people obstructing his work? Then we should have some understanding of the culture in which the Bible story takes place. A few other things are needed to rightly divide His word, but this post may be getting too long, so I'll end it now.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I totally agree that mainstream Christianity is guilty of making God unknowable, and as soon as we are convinced that we can't know God, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. God is our Father in Heaven. What kind of father would not want his children to know him?
Not only is it self fulfilling, but it opens the doors for teaching any mystical, nonsensical, and illogical doctrine someone can dream up. "Just believe brother. It doesn't have to make any sense" is heard every Sunday from pulpits across the world.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
If God's ways can't be known why are we talking about Him? Why do preachers teach what they don't understand? I'm not interested in learning from someone that doesn't understand the subject they are teaching. I wouldn't pay $100,000 for a college degree if the professors didn't understand what they were teaching. How much more important is God's Word than a college degree.

As far as the unforgivable sin, I understand it to be being born again of the devil's seed like the Scribes and Pharisees who Jesus called children of the devil. Seed is seed. Nobody can stop being their father's child no matter how good or reckless of a life that child lived. Once a child, always a child. You can't take the seed out of someone.

Nope not all, If you go to the book of Mark 13:11, And notice that Christ Jesus speaking, saying, "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what you shall speak, neither do you premeditate, but whatsoever shall be given you on that hour, that speak you, for it is not you that speak, but the Holy Spirit"

Now let's for say, that I am delivered up.
Now if I speak before the Holy Spirit can speak thru me, I just committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did give warning not to speak, nor give any thought nor premeditate. but the Holy Spirit would speak thru me.

So if I speak before I give the Holy Spirit a chance to speak thru me, I committed the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In Mark 14:4-5, "And Pilate asked hm again, saying, Answrest you nothing, behold how many times they witness against you,
But Jesus yet answered nothing, so Pilate marvelled"

Do you see what is happening, When we are delivered up, we to are to stand saying nothing, but let the Holy Spirit speak thru us.
Therefore Jesus had given the example to follow as he did.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Nope not all, If you go to the book of Mark 13:11, And notice that Christ Jesus speaking, saying, "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what you shall speak, neither do you premeditate, but whatsoever shall be given you on that hour, that speak you, for it is not you that speak, but the Holy Spirit"

Now let's for say, that I am delivered up.
Now if I speak before the Holy Spirit can speak thru me, I just committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did give warning not to speak, nor give any thought nor premeditate. but the Holy Spirit would speak thru me.

So if I speak before I give the Holy Spirit a chance to speak thru me, I committed the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In Mark 14:4-5, "And Pilate asked hm again, saying, Answrest you nothing, behold how many times they witness against you,
But Jesus yet answered nothing, so Pilate marvelled"

Do you see what is happening, When we are delivered up, we to are to stand saying nothing, but let the Holy Spirit speak thru us.
Therefore Jesus had given the example to follow as he did.
If what you say is true, we are all sunk. Be realistic. How many sincere Christians would falter at that directive when faced with death? Jesus believed, and some early Christians did, but most Christians today would crap their pants. I know it and you know it.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Rightly dividing the Word? Good question.

It's quite common talk speak about my interpretation, your interpretation, so and so's interpretation and so forth. I believe that nobody's interpretation is worth a plug nickel. Instead the Word interprets itself. Most of the time all we need to do is read what's written in the verse. What interpretation is required when I read John 3:16? Not much. It pretty much says what it means and means what it says. But sometimes we need to take the context into account. Indeed, that was the key to understand Is 55:8 & 9, the subject of this thread. Without context it seems to say, and is usually taught, that we can't know God. But just going back 1 verse, it is clear that the wicked are the ones who can't know God. Sometimes context isn't enough to get to the meaning. Perhaps we need to see where a particular word or phrase was used before. Many guess at Paul's thorn in the flesh. Sickness, blindness, a speech impediment, and a bunch of other ideas are tossed around. Well, see if thorns in the flesh are used somewhere else where it would be clear as to what it is. Turns out it is used in the Old Testament a few times and in each instance it clearly refers to people obstructing the movement of God's people. Would it not then follow that Paul's thorn in the flesh was people obstructing his work? Then we should have some understanding of the culture in which the Bible story takes place. A few other things are needed to rightly divide His word, but this post may be getting too long, so I'll end it now.

Yes, but to really get an understanding of what is being said, it's better to go back to the beginning of the Chapter and see what the subject and Article is really about first.

Rightly dividing the word of God, does not pertain to God's word, because Gods word is all truth, so there's no rightly dividing it.

Rightly dividing the word, means to rightly divided the truth from the error, When you hear a Pastor, Preacher speak on
God's word or anyone else. You rightly divide the truth from the error, from what their saying

As for the book of Revelation, What alot of people don't understand, is that God has already interpreted the book of Revelation, and then all we have to do is follow along and listen what God has given in his interpretation of the book of Revelation.
The book of Revelation is easy to understand, once you let God do the interpretation of Revelation. And we listen.

If you notice in the very first pages of Revelation, Christ Jesus said " he that has ears to hear, let him hear what the spirit is saying. This meaning hear what the spirit is saying thru the word of God. In Revelation.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
If what you say is true, we are all sunk. Be realistic. How many sincere Christians would falter at that directive when faced with death? Jesus believed, and some early Christians did, but most Christians today would crap their pants. I know it and you know it.

If I may say, In Mark 13:11, if you notice Christ Jesus saying, "But when they shall lead you and deliver you up"
This only happens during the tribulation when God's elect people are delivered up before the AntiChrist.

Notice that Jesus also said
( Whatsoever shall be given you in that hour)
Notice ( in that hour ) this being the hour of temptation spoken of in the book of Revelation 3:10. At this time is when God's elect people will be delivered up before the AntiChrist.
And when God's elect people are delivered up, They have been given the warning from Jesus in Mark 13:11 not to speak or give any thought or premeditate what they are to say, for it is the Holy Spirit that will speak thru them,
But if the elect speaks before the Holy Spirit can speak thru the elect, then the elect of God, have committed the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, can only happen during the tribulation. And only by God's elect people, When the elect are delivered up before the AntiChrist.
 
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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Isa 55:8-9 is often used to prove that believers, as children of God, can not truly understand their own father.

8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

At first glance these verses do seem to say that we can never know our God, that He is just too far above us to comprehend. By accepting that God is incomprehensible it becomes easy to accept impossibilities such as the trinity, transubstantiation, the saints in heaven, and many other non-biblical ideas. Nobody can possibly understand let alone comprehend three beings in one, but if God is taken to be above our understanding it can, and has unfortunately become the "cornerstone "of the Christian doctrine.

So, exactly whose thoughts is God talking about?

Isa 55:7,

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Well, that certainly puts a new light on the matter. No commentary necessary. Just read what's written and it becomes clear that it is the non-believer who is spoken of in the next 2 verses. It's quite true that God's ways and thoughts are far above those of the natural man, the non-born again individual. But what about those who seek to know God by reading and studying His word, the Bible?

Let's start by backing up one more verse in this section of Isaiah,

Isa 55:6,

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Why would God ask us to seek Him if we couldn't understand Him? Wouldn't that be a cruel joke indeed? Furthermore verse 6 clearly says he may be found. He can be found because He is near. He is not some mysterious concept beyond our comprehension. He can be understood as easily as we understand that two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen make water, or that the sky is blue.

Eph 5:1,

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
God wants us to follow Him. The word "followers" is the Greek word "mimetes" which is recognizable as our English word "mimic." How can one mimic something that is incomprehensible? They can't. If God wants us to mimic Him, it becomes necessary that we understand Him.

A search of the phrase "that ye may know" in the Bible (KJV) shows that God does want us to know. It can be found no less than 17 times in the scriptures. Perhaps the epitome of "that ye may know" is found in Ephesians.

Eph 1:17-21,

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
It certainly doesn't appear from these verses that God wants to keep us in the dark. He wants us to know without a doubt the exceeding greatness of His power which He demonstrated by sending His son to redeem sinners.

1Cor 2:15-16,

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
How can we judge all things unless we are fully informed as to who God is? Do we have the mind of Christ or not? Does Christ understand God? Whatever Christ knows about God, we, as born again believers, can also know. That's what "we have the mind of Christ" means or words have no meaning and we may as well throw the Bible in the trash.

Some will undoubtedly bring up the following verse in Romans to prove we can't know God.

Rom 11:33,

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Taken out of context, it does seem to say we can't know God. But what is the context? The book of Romans tells us how God, through the life and work of His son Jesus Christ, was able to defeat sin and death. The plan He used (the logos of John 1:1) was nothing short of the most brilliant plan ever devised. God had to correct the mistake made by one man with free will, i.e. Adam. He had to do it through the second Adam, i.e. Jesus Christ who also had free will. Now Jesus could hardly be considered a second Adam if he were God. Adam was a man and therefore our redeemer also had to be man.

1Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

Jesus was not some grotesque kind of god-man, but a man just like Adam. It would have been much easier for God to have simply come down to Adam and Eve and shed His blood right then and there instead of the temporary measure of giving them animal skins to cover themselves. But as a just God, He had to correct the mistake made by one man by way of another man, Jesus Christ, the second Adam. That was not so easy. But God managed to come up with just such a plan, whereas no man could have ever dreamed up the solution to the problem. It is dishonest to use this verse to justify any nonsensical theo-unlogical idea someone chooses to propound. It simply means God's plan, the logos, was eminently profound, deep, and brilliant.

I offer the following as proof that we can know our God, that there is no need to wonder.

Col 3:10,

And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
God, by the work of His dear son Jesus Christ, created a whole new creation within the born again believer. It is not an improved version of the flesh (in which there is no good thing [Rom 7:18]), but a whole new creation. The Bible explains that new creation and it does so in such a way that we are never left in the dark as to who God is and what He has done for us. We can know. I'd run from any pulpit that promoted the idea that God is beyond our comprehension. If such an idea were true, then why does anything at all come out of that pulpit? It is admittedly coming from a perspective of ignorance. Our God is much bigger than that!

Finally, I offer the following verses to show that we can know the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Prov 14:6,

A scorner seeketh wisdom, and [findeth it] not: but knowledge [is] easy unto him that understandeth.​


Isa 35:8,

And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it [shall be] for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err [therein].​

Matt 11:25,

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.​

Jas 3:17,

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
If you want to know God, you only need study His Word wherein He makes Himself known to those who hunger and thirst for truth. He is a personal God who longs for you to understand who He is and what He has done for you. He holds nothing back when it comes to life and Godliness.

2 Pet 1:3,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:​

And yet, there are countless versions of Christianity....and every Christian I meet has his own individual version. So, at best, this god is an incredibly poor communicator.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
And yet, there are countless versions of Christianity....and every Christian I meet has his own individual version. So, at best, this god is an incredibly poor communicator.
I think the problem of so many versions is caused by the churches. The Bible should be no harder to understand than the daily newspaper. By introducing impossible ideas, e.g. the trinity, it muddies up the whole story so as to make it incomprehensible so people end up making up nonsensical ideas that differ widely. Nonetheless the Bible itself is easy to understand (despite what churches teach) and it is the truth. Some people don't believe that. I can't do anything about that.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I think the problem of so many versions is caused by the churches. The Bible should be no harder to understand than the daily newspaper. By introducing impossible ideas, e.g. the trinity, it muddies up the whole story so as to make it incomprehensible so people end up making up nonsensical ideas that differ widely. Nonetheless the Bible itself is easy to understand (despite what churches teach) and it is the truth. Some people don't believe that. I can't do anything about that.

hey, rrobs.....haven't seen you around here....I hang out in the dark corners, though LOL.
I think that none of that matters at all. If there is a god that wishes to be known, then it is his responsibility to accomplish that. If he has to depend upon human foibles and human languages that come and go, then he isn't much of a god.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
hey, rrobs.....haven't seen you around here....I hang out in the dark corners, though LOL.
I think that none of that matters at all. If there is a god that wishes to be known, then it is his responsibility to accomplish that. If he has to depend upon human foibles and human languages that come and go, then he isn't much of a god.
I guess He could have forced us to believe His Word and discount the church traditions, but He gave us the free will to believe whatever we want. He did warn us about tradition making that Word useless (Matt 15:3), but if people want to ignore that then they are at fault. Nothing wrong with God or the Bible. God is still big!
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I guess He could have forced us to believe His Word and discount the church traditions, but He gave us the free will to believe whatever we want. He did warn us about tradition making that Word useless (Matt 15:3), but if people want to ignore that then they are at fault. Nothing wrong with God or the Bible. God is still big!

You are misdirecting the conversation. I didn’t say anything about forcing belief. My implication was that he apparently is unable to clearly communicate his needs, desires, etc. in a manner that does not cause confusion.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
You are misdirecting the conversation. I didn’t say anything about forcing belief. My implication was that he apparently is unable to clearly communicate his needs, desires, etc. in a manner that does not cause confusion.
So as not misdirect the conversation I'll try to answer your assertion head on. I understand you are implying that God is unable to communicate who He is without causing confusing.

I've been saying from the initial post that the confusion has been caused by the churches. God's Word is clear and easy to understand. It claims that very thing about itself many times in the scriptures. He says that even a fool can understand it. There is nothing lacking in God's ability to tell His own children who their father is. He does an extraordinarily bang-up job of doing so.

On the other hand the churches have done an extraordinarily bang-up job making the whole thing void and useless.

Matt 15:6,

...Thus have ye [the religious leaders] made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
The churches have done just that by way of un-scriptural ideas steeped in tradition. They've had 2,000 years of making people believe in things that are undeniably nonsensical, and therefore really quite unbelievable. There is no way a sane individaul can have a clear idea of three people in one. People simply aren't wired by God to believe things that are clearly not possible in the real world. No wonder there is so much confusion. Once fantasy enters the picture all bets are off as far as any level of understanding.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Isa 55:8-9 is often used to prove that believers, as children of God, can not truly understand their own father.

8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

At first glance these verses do seem to say that we can never know our God, that He is just too far above us to comprehend. By accepting that God is incomprehensible it becomes easy to accept impossibilities such as the trinity, transubstantiation, the saints in heaven, and many other non-biblical ideas. Nobody can possibly understand let alone comprehend three beings in one, but if God is taken to be above our understanding it can, and has unfortunately become the "cornerstone "of the Christian doctrine.

So, exactly whose thoughts is God talking about?

Isa 55:7,

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Well, that certainly puts a new light on the matter. No commentary necessary. Just read what's written and it becomes clear that it is the non-believer who is spoken of in the next 2 verses. It's quite true that God's ways and thoughts are far above those of the natural man, the non-born again individual. But what about those who seek to know God by reading and studying His word, the Bible?

Let's start by backing up one more verse in this section of Isaiah,

Isa 55:6,

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Why would God ask us to seek Him if we couldn't understand Him? Wouldn't that be a cruel joke indeed? Furthermore verse 6 clearly says he may be found. He can be found because He is near. He is not some mysterious concept beyond our comprehension. He can be understood as easily as we understand that two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen make water, or that the sky is blue.

Eph 5:1,

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
God wants us to follow Him. The word "followers" is the Greek word "mimetes" which is recognizable as our English word "mimic." How can one mimic something that is incomprehensible? They can't. If God wants us to mimic Him, it becomes necessary that we understand Him.

A search of the phrase "that ye may know" in the Bible (KJV) shows that God does want us to know. It can be found no less than 17 times in the scriptures. Perhaps the epitome of "that ye may know" is found in Ephesians.

Eph 1:17-21,

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
It certainly doesn't appear from these verses that God wants to keep us in the dark. He wants us to know without a doubt the exceeding greatness of His power which He demonstrated by sending His son to redeem sinners.

1Cor 2:15-16,

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
How can we judge all things unless we are fully informed as to who God is? Do we have the mind of Christ or not? Does Christ understand God? Whatever Christ knows about God, we, as born again believers, can also know. That's what "we have the mind of Christ" means or words have no meaning and we may as well throw the Bible in the trash.

Some will undoubtedly bring up the following verse in Romans to prove we can't know God.

Rom 11:33,

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Taken out of context, it does seem to say we can't know God. But what is the context? The book of Romans tells us how God, through the life and work of His son Jesus Christ, was able to defeat sin and death. The plan He used (the logos of John 1:1) was nothing short of the most brilliant plan ever devised. God had to correct the mistake made by one man with free will, i.e. Adam. He had to do it through the second Adam, i.e. Jesus Christ who also had free will. Now Jesus could hardly be considered a second Adam if he were God. Adam was a man and therefore our redeemer also had to be man.

1Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

Jesus was not some grotesque kind of god-man, but a man just like Adam. It would have been much easier for God to have simply come down to Adam and Eve and shed His blood right then and there instead of the temporary measure of giving them animal skins to cover themselves. But as a just God, He had to correct the mistake made by one man by way of another man, Jesus Christ, the second Adam. That was not so easy. But God managed to come up with just such a plan, whereas no man could have ever dreamed up the solution to the problem. It is dishonest to use this verse to justify any nonsensical theo-unlogical idea someone chooses to propound. It simply means God's plan, the logos, was eminently profound, deep, and brilliant.

I offer the following as proof that we can know our God, that there is no need to wonder.

Col 3:10,

And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
God, by the work of His dear son Jesus Christ, created a whole new creation within the born again believer. It is not an improved version of the flesh (in which there is no good thing [Rom 7:18]), but a whole new creation. The Bible explains that new creation and it does so in such a way that we are never left in the dark as to who God is and what He has done for us. We can know. I'd run from any pulpit that promoted the idea that God is beyond our comprehension. If such an idea were true, then why does anything at all come out of that pulpit? It is admittedly coming from a perspective of ignorance. Our God is much bigger than that!

Finally, I offer the following verses to show that we can know the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Prov 14:6,

A scorner seeketh wisdom, and [findeth it] not: but knowledge [is] easy unto him that understandeth.​


Isa 35:8,

And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it [shall be] for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err [therein].​

Matt 11:25,

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.​

Jas 3:17,

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
If you want to know God, you only need study His Word wherein He makes Himself known to those who hunger and thirst for truth. He is a personal God who longs for you to understand who He is and what He has done for you. He holds nothing back when it comes to life and Godliness.

2 Pet 1:3,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:​


I can agree with you that many different people and cultures interpret the things written in the Bible stories in different ways. And I agree with you that traditions are built up around them. I am only disagreeing where the blame is to be placed.
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. (Ps. 145:3)

Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? (Job 26:14)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8–9)

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)

Bible made it clear you can't know god, yet people seem to think they know all about him or if its even a him at all. I don't get how a book that proclaims knowledge of god yet stating that knowledge can't be obtained about the god they talk about so much.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
At first glance these verses do seem to say that we can never know our God, that He is just too far above us to comprehend. By accepting that God is incomprehensible it becomes easy to accept impossibilities such as the trinity, transubstantiation, the saints in heaven, and many other non-biblical ideas.
This as a topic of interest to Christians. I find it odd that the divinely inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God (the Bible) cannot be understood by those who believe it, leading to constant bickering and heated disagreement among its followers.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. (Ps. 145:3)

Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? (Job 26:14)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8–9)

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)

Bible made it clear you can't know god, yet people seem to think they know all about him or if its even a him at all. I don't get how a book that proclaims knowledge of god yet stating that knowledge can't be obtained about the god they talk about so much.
I'll handle a few of the verses you quoted.

If you read the context of the verses you quoted in Isaiah 55, you will quickly see from verse 7 that God was speaking about evil doers. It is true enough they don't think like God. Furthermore, verse 6 tells Israel to seek Him while He is near and can be found. Why would He say that if He couldn't be found? The upshot is that this section in Isaiah does not say God can't be understood by those who honestly seek Him.

As far as 1 Cor 2:10-11 goes, again context is the key. Had you included the rest of the verses in that chapter you would see that it says that, while the natural man (un-born again) can't understand God (v14), Christians have the spirit of God (v 12) as well as the mind Christ (v 16). That should be enough to see we can and should know our heavenly father at least as intimately as we know our earthly fathers.

Romans 11:33-34. God is speaking of the greatness of His plan making the Gentiles fellow heirs with Israel, something unheard of in the Old Testament. That is the crux of Paul's letters to the church. It is called the mystery (Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 4:1, Eph 1:9-10, et. al.). Romans 11:33-34 is simply speaking to the genius of God's plan, which plan (the logos of John 1:1) was in His mind before the world was created. If you continue reading a bit more in Romans (again, context) you will see that in 12:2 God exhorts us to transform our minds so we can prove that perfect will of His. How are you going to do that without understanding? Verse 11:34 asks, "who has known the mind of the Lord?" We already saw the answer to that in 1 Cor 11:16 where it says we have the mind of Christ.

These verses, far from saying we can't know God, say we can know Him in a most intimate way. Having the mind of Christ should give us the ability to understand something! Unfortunately, most Christians today have forgotten the exhortation of Romans 12:2. Instead of renewing their minds to the perfect will of God, they have renewed their minds to the heresies of the churches and accepted them as truth no matter how nonsensical (e.g. three people in one, a son being his own father) they may be.

The other verses you mentioned must fit in with these verses if we are to have no contradictions in the Bible. I'll leave it to anyone who is interested to work that out for themselves although I'd be glad to help anyone sincerely seeking the truth.

I find it odd that the divinely inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God (the Bible) cannot be understood by those who believe it, leading to constant bickering and heated disagreement among its followers.

I have no qualms whatsoever stating the truth in love. God tells us all to reprove and correct one another (Eph 5:11, 2 Tim 4:2, et. al.). I will speak to millions and gladly suffer reproach from my fellow Christians if it means that one of them turns from fables to the truth. I do not believe in a social Gospel of any sort. To me, the word of God is the will of God and I have no shame in proclaiming it to anybody who wants to know the truth. To those who succumb to the false church doctrine, I only have pity because they know not the true greatness of our God nor His son Jesus Christ who saved us and redeemed us from death.
 
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