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In the twinkling of an eye
- Thread starter WALL
- Start date
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
The term is to show that time has no place in the spiritual. When Jesus body died, he was able to go to (the realm) of Hades, to the grave where all spirits resided that had died before he appeared in our realm, minister to them and save those who accepted him. To us, the moment he died, the graves were opened and the saints who were saved arose and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53
All this happened according to Secret Book of John:
"And I went into the realm of darkness and I endured till I entered the middle of the prison. And the foundations of chaos shook. And I hid myself from them because of their wickedness, and they did not recognize me.
"Again I returned for the second time, and I went about. I came forth from those who belong to the light, which is I, the remembrance of the Pronoia. I entered into the midst of darkness and the inside of Hades, since I was seeking (to accomplish) my task. And the foundations of chaos shook, that they might fall down upon those who are in chaos and might destroy them. And again I ran up to my root of light, lest they be destroyed before the time.
"Still for a third time I went - I am the light which exists in the light, I am the remembrance of the Pronoia - that I might enter into the midst of darkness and the inside of Hades. And I filled my face with the light of the completion of their aeon. And I entered into the midst of their prison, which is the prison of the body. And I said, 'He who hears, let him get up from the deep sleep.' And he wept and shed tears. Bitter tears he wiped from himself and he said, 'Who is it that calls my name, and from where has this hope come to me, while I am in the chains of the prison?' And I said, 'I am the Pronoia of the pure light; I am the thinking of the virginal Spirit, who raised you up to the honored place. Arise and remember that it is you who hearkened, and follow your root, which is I, the merciful one, and guard yourself against the angels of poverty and the demons of chaos and all those who ensnare you, and beware of the deep sleep and the enclosure of the inside of Hades.
Secret John also says:
Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan.
Decay is dependent on time. There is no decay in spirituality, therefore, what we determine as time, is an illusion.
I'm sure someone else has an answer, but that's the one I accept, and the scriptures that backs it up.
faithofabraham
Member
Simple answer..no.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Nope, because when Christ Jesus returns, he will establish his kingdom here on earth. So no one is going any where.
"The righteous shall never be removed, But the wicked shall not inhabit the earth"
Proverbs 10:30.
There you have it.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Well, I totally disagree with the others that have responded to you so far.
First of all as Matthew 25:31-46 shows, when the Messiah returns, all the nations will be gathered before him to judge them. Sheep on the right, and goats on the left. He will tell those who have made it to enter life eternal, and those who haven't will go into everlasting punishment. So he is not going to set up a kingdom again here on earth. He has already done that, it is called his church.
2 Peter 3:10-13 lets us know that when he comes as a thief in the night, the heavens shall pass away, and the earth and the works therein shall be burned up. So once again, proof that he will not be setting up another kingdom here on earth.
2 Thessalonians 4:15-18 lets us know, that at the last trump when he descends with a shout, the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remaining shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord, and so shall we ever be with him. And as the verse you asked about in 1 Corinthians 15: lets us know, the change in the twinkling of an eye occurs at the last trump.
So if the change in the twinkling of an eye occurs at the last trump, and his return is at the last trump, then that is proof that those who have made it will be heading to heaven.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
If Christ Jesus is not going to establish his kingdom here on earth, Then why is the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven to established God's kingdom here on earth.
The New Jerusalem will be where God's Government power will rule from. No one's going anywhere.
That's whole purpose of the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven, to establish God's kingdom here on earth.
Revelation 21:1-27
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
He already set up his kingdom here on earth. It's his church. As the verses I gave state, the earth will be burned up when he comes, so how could his people not be going somewhere else? Remember Heaven and Earth shall pass away. 2 Peter 3:10-13 We look for new heavens and a new earth.
Read verse 1 from what you referenced carefully - for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away. If it has passed away, how are you going to stay there?
I think that new Jerusalem is what we would call being in Heaven.
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Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
The true church of Christ Jesus doesn't come until after the tribulation has ended. Then Christ Jesus comes to establish his kingdom here on earth and the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to establish God's kingdom here on earth.
That of 2nd Peter 3:10-13, takes place after the tribulation has ended, Then Christ Jesus comes to establish his kingdom here on earth.
74x12
Well-Known Member
The rapture seems to be an incorrect teaching. When Paul says we'll be caught up to meet Him in the air that doens't mean we're being raptured out of there. Only that As Jesus returns those who are saved at His coming will go up in the air to "meet" Him. Just like when someone is away from home for a long time in the old days the people in the house would come out to meet them when they return. Still, once the meeting is over then everyone goes back together to the house. So when Jesus returns those who are alive and saved will go up to meet Him in the air before they return to earth with Christ.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
It's Trump, not trump. When the last Trump is elected, and when he shouts, Jesus will come.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
You can believe anything you want. But as the scripture points out in Matthew 25:31-46 when he returns it is going to be for the judgement.
Here is more proof in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 When he is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel.
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Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Do you know what Judgement that is.
Seeing there are two Judgements.
So which is which Judgement, are you talking about.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
I hope you are just ki
What you are saying isn't making any sense. You are saying New Jerusalem comes down to establish God's kingdom here on earth. And you reference Revelation 21:1-27 But as I already pointed out, in the first verse it says the first heaven and earth has already passed away. So it can't be as you say.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Look Revelation 21;1--"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea"
Have you any idea what the first heaven and the first earth is. What is John talking about, The first heaven, the first earth.
I can tell you, that you will not have any idea or clue what John is talking about.
First Heaven, First Earth.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
I think you are trying to muddy the waters, rather than acknowledge that what you have said doesn't hold up under scrutiny of the scriptures.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. That was the first earth. It is the one we are existing on right now. There was a time when mankind had become so corrupt, that he used a flood to cleanse the earth in the days of Noah. But he didn't destroy the earth. Now it is reserved unto fire against the day of judgement. 2 Peter 3:5-7 We according to his promise look for new heavens and a new earth. 2 Peter 3:13 So the new heavens and earth will be next, after this one has passed away. And as I showed in a previous post, this earth will be burnt up and dissolved when he returns. 2 Peter 3:10-11
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
The rapture seems to be an incorrect teaching. When Paul says we'll be caught up to meet Him in the air that doens't mean we're being raptured out of there. Only that As Jesus returns those who are saved at His coming will go up in the air to "meet" Him. Just like when someone is away from home for a long time in the old days the people in the house would come out to meet them when they return. Still, once the meeting is over then everyone goes back together to the house. So when Jesus returns those who are alive and saved will go up to meet Him in the air before they return to earth with Christ.
Sorry 74x12,
I can't agree with you that they will return to earth. When he comes, and his people are caught up to meet him, then they are headed for heaven. This earth will be burned up at his coming, so how would his people even be able to return to it? 2 Peter 3:7-13 Also read 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 , and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 , and keep in mind he is coming at the last trump. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Seeing you have no idea, The only things that will be burned up, is those things that has sin in it. The earth it's self will not be burned up.nor the trees, flowers,grass, animals, Only those things that has sin in it will be burned up.
Maybe you should spend more time in studying the book of Revelation.You might find out something.
Seeing you have no idea or clue what your talking about, That of 2nd Peter Chapter 3
Is all about the first earth age, As in where the dinosaurs lived. We now in the 2nd earth age. The 3rd earth age will come, When Christ Jesus comes When he remakes the earth new again as it once was, .Then Christ Jesus will establish his kingdom here on earth.
But then you wouldn't know this, seeing people are not taught about the first earth age.
I guess you probably think that the dinosaurs bones just one day just fell out of the sky and covered themselves over.
Just waiting for the day, that someone would dig them up.saying hey look what I found, We know they couldn't possibly been here on earth, knowing the earth is only 6000 years old. They are millions of years old.
So the they must haved fell from outer space and landed here on earth and covered themselves over with dirt.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
You are making ridiculous arguments, and have given no scriptural proof for what you are saying. I gave proof for what I said - if you choose not to believe the scriptures, that is your choice.
What you are saying is in conflict with 2 Peter 3:10-13 and the other scriptures previously referenced. Peter said the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved ... Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
So at the time Peter wrote this, the new heavens and earth weren't here yet.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Of course the earth will be burned up but only at the end of 1000 years correct? I am interested to hear your take on the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Seeing you do not want to believe what is written. That's your choice.
Seeing you have no idea or clue, what those elements are.
Those elements is everything that has sin in it.
Also you have no clue or idea how those things are burned up.
What causes the elements to be burned up
What is the heat source.where does it come from.