Why do some atheists have to be so insulting and mean?

Trailblazer said:

Why do some atheists have to be so insulting and mean? I am a believer and I do not ever insult atheists; in fact I tell them their lack of belief is just as rational as my beliefs since nobody can prove there is a God. I never threaten them with hell because I do not even believe in hell.

But I constantly have to defend myself from being call brainwashed and stupid and having dumb arguments, just because I believe in God and have a religion that is different from Christianity, a religion they do not know how to refute. Nobody deserves to be treated this way.

If atheists want to say they need no God for morality then some of them are not doing a very good job of demonstrating that with their air of superiority, arrogance, and rude behavior, not to mention dishonesty, lack of self-awareness and unjust treatment of others.

I am not referring to any atheists in this forum. They have been more than civil and respectful and kind.

I am being called stupid but I am not stupid. I went to college for over 15 years and I have several degrees, two advanced. But I am called stupid because my degrees are not in science subjects, because I do not know a lot about history. So what? What is more important, how much one knows or how they treat their fellow man?

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King James Bible
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

King James Bible
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Do you see what you are doing? God didn't choose the wise in the world or the wise amongst the religious. When Christ came he chose fishermen etc. The fishermen learned the scriptures off by heart according to the OT and evident in the NT.
You should not be worried about what others think of you,.
Proverbs 29:25 (KJV)
25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.

We know the truth and if man thinks he can find the truth in the wisdom of man than he searches in vain. Paul was an intelligent and well learned man. But even he did not recognise the Messiah. We have to become humble and foolish in the eyes of man to be wise in the sight of God.

RESOLUTION said:

Do you see what you are doing? God didn't choose the wise in the world or the wise amongst the religious. When Christ came he chose fishermen etc. The fishermen learned the scriptures off by heart according to the OT and evident in the NT.
You should not be worried about what others think of you.

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Thanks, but I do not care what other people think about me, I was just hurt by this one atheist because I had mistakenly thought he was a friend, and then he stabbed me in the back. It hurt for a while but I forgave him and moved on.

RESOLUTION said:

Proverbs 29:25 (KJV)

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RESOLUTION said:

The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.. We know the truth and if man thinks he can find the truth in the wisdom of man than he searches in vain. Paul was an intelligent and well learned man. But even he did not recognise the Messiah. We have to become humble and foolish in the eyes of man to be wise in the sight of God.

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Well, maybe that is why most atheists think I am so foolish. But as I tell them, I only care what God thinks of me. That usually gets them pretty riled up but I do not care. They can think whatever they want to about God but that won't hurt me or God.

Trailblazer said:

Thanks, but I do not care what other people think about me, I was just hurt by this one atheist because I had mistakenly thought he was a friend, and then he stabbed me in the back. It hurt for a while but I forgave him and moved on.

Well, maybe that is why most atheists think I am so foolish. But as I tell them, I only care what God thinks of me. That usually gets them pretty riled up but I do not care. They can think whatever they want to about God but that won't hurt me or God.

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If Baha'is are right then you're not the foolish one, atheists are... Along with people of every single religion. They don't have the correct teachings about who God and what he wants people to do. So actually they are even more foolish for following false beliefs. Which essentially means they're believing in a make believe God. And then, if the Baha'is aren't right, then the atheists maybe aren't foolish at all... Just skeptical about an invisible, unknowable God that can't be proven. And of course sometimes, some of them can be mean.

Trailblazer said:

Well, maybe that is why most atheists think I am so foolish. But as I tell them, I only care what God thinks of me. That usually gets them pretty riled up but I do not care. They can think whatever they want to about God but that won't hurt me or God.

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People who don't care about what other people think of them don't start threads about what other people think of them.

CG Didymus said:

If Baha'is are right then you're not the foolish one, atheists are... Along with people of every single religion. They don't have the correct teachings about who God and what he wants people to do. So actually they are even more foolish for following false beliefs. Which essentially means they're believing in a make believe God.

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You are right, the atheists are foolish for not at least giving the Baha’i Faith a fair shot, but the other religious believers are more foolish because they already believe in God so they are a leg up on the atheists. As such they are blinded only by the religious traditions that they cling to so tenaciously.

With the religious believers, it is ego that blinds them because they are so sure they have the only true religion. With the atheists it is the fact that they do not see any evidence that God exists and religions do not constitute evidence for them. The primary reason that atheists think religion is not evidence is because of all the past religions, primarily Christianity, which has religion a black eye in their eyes. So it is confirmation bias that prevents most atheists from giving the Baha’i Faith a fair shot.

CG Didymus said:

And then, if the Baha'is aren't right, then the atheists maybe aren't foolish at all... Just skeptical about an invisible, unknowable God that can't be proven. And of course sometimes, some of them can be mean.

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If the Baha’is aren’t right, religion makes no sense at all and the atheists might be right that there is no God.

If I were not a Baha’i I would be an agnostic or a deist. Since God cannot be proven to not exist, I would not be an atheist.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

People who don't care about what other people think of them don't start threads about what other people think of them.

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The thread was not about what other people think of me. It was about how hurt I was because I had a relationship with that atheist referred to in the OP and he was insulting and mean to me. I never cared what he thought of me. I just felt hurt because of the way he treated me, unjustly and without cause.

If I cared what people think of me here I would not have started this thread, knowing that some atheists would read it and misconstrue it; but I did not care what people might think, I just needed to vent. People can think whatever they want about me. I do not care what anyone thinks of me except God.

I would not have stayed on a primarily atheist forum for four years where most people thought I was foolish if I had cared what people thought of me there. Deductive reasoning usually works better than guessing other people’s motives. You cannot EVER KNOW what other people’s motives are without asking them, since you cannot read minds.

Trailblazer said:

You are right, the atheists are foolish for not at least giving the Baha’i Faith a fair shot, but the other religious believers are more foolish because they already believe in God so they are a leg up on the atheists. As such they are blinded only by the religious traditions that they cling to so tenaciously.

With the religious believers, it is ego that blinds them because they are so sure they have the only true religion. With the atheists it is the fact that they do not see any evidence that God exists and religions do not constitute evidence for them. The primary reason that atheists think religion is not evidence is because of all the past religions, primarily Christianity, which has religion a black eye in their eyes. So it is confirmation bias that prevents most atheists from giving the Baha’i Faith a fair shot.

If the Baha’is aren’t right, religion makes no sense at all and the atheists might be right that there is no God.

If I were not a Baha’i I would be an agnostic or a deist. Since God cannot be proven to not exist, I would not be an atheist.

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Just prior to the coming of Baha'u'llah, how could anyone take any of the religions all that seriously? Even Baha'is say they were filled with superstition and man made traditions.

The God especially of the Christians had all sorts of issues. A three part God that created the Earth about 6000 years ago and then flooded it... A God that created a Satan and turned him lose on humanity. So why at that time should anyone have believed in that God? And that is probably the God most denied and most argued against by atheists.

CG Didymus said:

Just prior to the coming of Baha'u'llah, how could anyone take any of the religions all that seriously? Even Baha'is say they were filled with superstition and man made traditions.

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Islam was not filled with superstition, and although it did have some man-made traditions, it did not have near as many as Christianity and Judaism and the other older religions.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Even after Baha’u’llah straightened things out, most adherents to the older religions did not listen and even today they still adhere to the same superstitious doctrines and man-made traditions and take their religions very seriously.

CG Didymus said:

The God especially of the Christians had all sorts of issues. A three part God that created the Earth about 6000 years ago and then flooded it... A God that created a Satan and turned him lose on humanity. So why at that time should anyone have believed in that God? And that is probably the God most denied and most argued against by atheists.

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The answer is rather simple. At the time the Bible was written that was all those people could understand, so that is why it was written that way. However, time marches on and now we are living in a “new age.” Unfortunately, most Christians have not woken up and smelled the new coffee that Baha’u’llah brought. They are living in the past, as if time stands still.

Atheists realized that the old coffee is no longer any good for the new age, but unfortunately they gave up on God altogether since they assumed all the coffee is the same.

That is called the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization:

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern:

1. X is true for A.
2. X is true for B.
3. Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.

Faulty generalization - Wikipedia

For example, if a person sees 10 religions, all of them with superstitions and man-made traditions, they may erroneously conclude that there are no religions that do not have superstitions and man-made traditions. That conclusion was based on insufficient evidence, essentially making a hasty conclusion without looking at newer religions such as the Baha’i Faith.

Trailblazer said:

Islam was not filled with superstition, and although it did have some man-made traditions, it did not have near as many as Christianity and Judaism and the other older religions.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Even after Baha’u’llah straightened things out, most adherents to the older religions did not listen and even today they still adhere to the same superstitious doctrines and man-made traditions and take their religions very seriously.

The answer is rather simple. At the time the Bible was written that was all those people could understand, so that is why it was written that way. However, time marches on and now we are living in a “new age.” Unfortunately, most Christians have not woken up and smelled the new coffee that Baha’u’llah brought. They are living in the past, as if time stands still.

Atheists realized that the old coffee is no longer any good for the new age, but unfortunately they gave up on God altogether since they assumed all the coffee is the same.

That is called the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization:

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern:

1. X is true for A.
2. X is true for B.
3. Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.

Faulty generalization - Wikipedia

For example, if a person sees 10 religions, all of them with superstitions and man-made traditions, they may erroneously conclude that there are no religions that do not have superstitions and man-made traditions. That conclusion was based on insufficient evidence, essentially making a hasty conclusion without looking at newer religions such as the Baha’i Faith.

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Your religion proclaims that while Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc., have all been supplanted, they were all based in truth. This means that anyone who is convinced that any of these religions was NOT based in truth can infer that your religion is false as well.

Trailblazer said:

Islam was not filled with superstition, and although it did have some man-made traditions, it did not have near as many as Christianity and Judaism and the other older religions.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Even after Baha’u’llah straightened things out, most adherents to the older religions did not listen and even today they still adhere to the same superstitious doctrines and man-made traditions and take their religions very seriously.

The answer is rather simple. At the time the Bible was written that was all those people could understand, so that is why it was written that way. However, time marches on and now we are living in a “new age.” Unfortunately, most Christians have not woken up and smelled the new coffee that Baha’u’llah brought. They are living in the past, as if time stands still.

Atheists realized that the old coffee is no longer any good for the new age, but unfortunately they gave up on God altogether since they assumed all the coffee is the same.

That is called the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization:

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern:

1. X is true for A.
2. X is true for B.
3. Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.

Faulty generalization - Wikipedia

For example, if a person sees 10 religions, all of them with superstitions and man-made traditions, they may erroneously conclude that there are no religions that do not have superstitions and man-made traditions. That conclusion was based on insufficient evidence, essentially making a hasty conclusion without looking at newer religions such as the Baha’i Faith.

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I don't drink coffee. And the Baha'i Faith teaches that Islam was taken over early on by corrupt leaders, and that those leaders were the beasts and dragons in the Book of Revelation.

And you say the people during the time of Jesus were so unsophisticated that they needed to be told lies about God? So who's more correct in their beliefs? Those that believe in those false Christian doctrines about God or those that say there is no God?

CG Didymus said:

I don't drink coffee. And the Baha'i Faith teaches that Islam was taken over early on by corrupt leaders, and that those leaders were the beasts and dragons in the Book of Revelation.

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Thanks, I did not know that. A religious scholar I am not.

CG Didymus said:

And you say the people during the time of Jesus were so unsophisticated that they needed to be told lies about God?

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They were not lies about God. What was in the Bible was all that people were able to comprehend at that time in history. The lies were not what was in the Bible, the lies were the Christian doctrines which were the result of misconstruing what the Bible meant.

Sure, there were some stories like the resurrection story, but there is no reason to believe that was intended to be understood as any more than a story which was intended to convey spiritual truth. But since man has free will, man decided what they thought it all meant and met at councils like Nicaea and made up doctrines.

CG Didymus said:

So who's more correct in their beliefs? Those that believe in those false Christian doctrines about God or those that say there is no God?

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They are both wrong, but at least the Christians believe there is a God, which is right. Now if they would only stop waiting for Jesus to return we’d be all set.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Your religion proclaims that while Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc., have all been supplanted, they were all based in truth.

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Originally, when they were first revealed to the Messengers of God who established them, they were based in truth, but over time there were many different translations of the scriptures and religious adherents misconstrued the meanings of their scriptures such that the original meaning God intended to convey was lost.

For example, Abdu’l-Baha said: “Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues, but their institutions have been entirely destroyed. The beliefs and rites of the Buddhists and Confucianists have not continued in accordance with their fundamental teachings. The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 165

As for Christianity, it is no longer based upon the Gospel message, but rather it is based upon the man-made doctrines of the Church that were decided upon at various councils such as Nicaea.

So most of these older religions are no longer based upon the truth from God, and that is one reason a new religion was necessary in this new age, aside from the fact that we needed a new message that is pertinent to this age.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

This means that anyone who is convinced that any of these religions was NOT based in truth can infer that your religion is false as well.

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No, that is not necessarily true given what I said above. Only to the degree that these religions represent what the Messengers originally revealed are we obligated to believe they are based in truth.

However, anyone who is convinced that any of the Messengers of God who revealed these religions was NOT based in truth can infer that my religion is false as well. So, the “requirement” for a Baha’i is to accept all the true Messengers of God as legitimate, and we are not supposed to prefer any one of them to another, but rather realize that the truth that each of them revealed was from God and necessary for the age in which it was revealed.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

Trailblazer said:

Originally, when they were first revealed to the Messengers of God who established them, they were based in truth, but over time there were many different translations of the scriptures and religious adherents misconstrued the meanings of their scriptures such that the original meaning God intended to convey was lost.

For example, Abdu’l-Baha said: “Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues, but their institutions have been entirely destroyed. The beliefs and rites of the Buddhists and Confucianists have not continued in accordance with their fundamental teachings. The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 165

As for Christianity, it is no longer based upon the Gospel message, but rather it is based upon the man-made doctrines of the Church that were decided upon at various councils such as Nicaea.

So most of these older religions are no longer based upon the truth from God, and that is one reason a new religion was necessary in this new age, aside from the fact that we needed a new message that is pertinent to this age.

No, that is not necessarily true given what I said above. Only to the degree that these religions represent what the Messengers originally revealed are we obligated to believe they are based in truth.

However, anyone who is convinced that any of the Messengers of God who revealed these religions was NOT based in truth can infer that my religion is false as well. So, the “requirement” for a Baha’i is to accept all the true Messengers of God as legitimate, and we are not supposed to prefer any one of them to another, but rather realize that the truth that each of them revealed was from God and necessary for the age in which it was revealed.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

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I think we’re saying the same thing in different ways. What I’m getting at is if I have come to the conclusion that, say, Jesus was not inspired by God and was just a regular person who came up with what he said all by himself, then I can set aside not only Christianity but also the Baha’i faith too. Do you agree?

9-10ths_Penguin said:

I think we’re saying the same thing in different ways. What I’m getting at is if I have come to the conclusion that, say, Jesus was not inspired by God and was just a regular person who came up with what he said all by himself, then I can set aside not only Christianity but also the Baha’i faith too. Do you agree?

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Yes, I agree. Baha’u’llah could not be a Messenger of God unless Jesus was also a Messenger of God since all the Messengers of God are tied together and they all speak for the same God. They are all the same spirit of God; they only differ in that they have a different physical body and a different mission on earth.

“The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 50

“It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 52

Besides that, Baha’u’llah said that Jesus was a Messenger of God. Why would Baha’u’llah say that if both of them were not Messengers of God?

So if Jesus was just an ordinary man then that makes Baha’u’llah just an ordinary man saying that Jesus was a Messenger of God.

Besides that, the underpinning theology of the Baha’i Faith is that there were many Messengers of God before Baha’u’llah and there will be many after, so there is no way Baha’u’llah could be a standalone Messenger.

Most of the insults I dish out stem from a response mechanism triggered by religious folks firing the first volley or threat of injury or death. I have lost count how many times I have had my life threatened by religious keyboard warriors. To me once they cross that line saying they will either hurt me or my family they are deemed in open season. And sometimes I'm in a bad mood. I know, it's wrong, but I get fed up with the endless amount of cognitive dissonance some people have and their staunch refusal to see any kind of reason. Now I don't know about this board, I haven't even been a member for a week, but on facebook?!? Jeebus, it's a different story. This place is nice and peaceful and a whole lot more civilized than the attempted debates that happen in social media.

But I will give a few pointers on how to not get under our skin.

1. Tell us what we think, or any assumption on what our credo might be, there is no uniform platform of understanding we all share.

2. Something from nothing. Now I am breaking the rule 1 here but no atheist I have ever interacted with thinks this. Nothing doesn't exist you can't test nothing, something from nothing is magic and nothing is not mentioned a single time in the big bang theory. Something can come from something else but I don't know where theists got this something from nothing business but we didn't start it. Perhaps theists did, isn't that what something from nothing is? Nothing was there then god made it.

3. Atheism isn't a belief system. I don't believe there is no god, I have reserved my belief in a deity until accurate evidence can be provided proving such a deity to exist, I am however confident that none so far exist in the terms that humans have thus far written about exist. There could be gods and it is this lack of data that I cannot be a de facto atheist. To put it simpler, it's like calling off a channel you can watch on TV, or taking the TV out of the room and sitting in front of where it used to be and watching the wall but calling it watching TV. It's not just like atheism isn't a belief.

4. Saying it's just a theory, and using the common dictionary terms definition of a theory and ignoring the scientific definition of a theory. It's a poor argument and it grinds our gears. Language first and foremost is not a reliable system of communication in the first place. And different fields have different lexicons for their field. Law, science, common english, and Olde English are just a few examples.

5. Apologetics in general, every history book and holy book has skeletons in the closet. Are all past present and future atrocities justified? Is it because it was committed by a divine being it can't be wrong? Can slavery be justified, I really don't think there is a single point one could make that would make me agree that owning other people as property is a good thing. It just isn't. This circumnavigation of personal morals is quite bothersome. If anyone today acted exactly as they acted then, they would all be in prison.

6. Telling us our lives have no meaning without god. And because we don't believe in said god our lives cannot have a purpose until we are brought back into belief. Me existing with my own purpose refutes that argument alone.

In what I have experienced in debate or general discussion a majority of what theists say is insulting. Nothing I do that I have worked hard to achieve is by my own doing it is only by the grace of god that it is allowed to happen. "You have god given talent." F*** off please. I worked hard to get where I am, and no god was there at least from my own perspective was there to help me out. I'm not this broken thing that needs fixing because I got born. God's there even if you don't believe in him. He might be, but if he is responsible for everything then he made non-believers on purpose. What is the reason for that, to make believers have someone to step all over, beat, torture and kill and then feel better because they are part of the exclusive belief club? Bah this is turning into a huge rant so I'm just gonna stop here while I'm starting to fall behind.