Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Peter was referring to the wicked, that the wicked has a hard time understanding the scriptures.
God's elect understand the scriptures perfectly.
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The scriptures are hard to understand
- Thread starter 74x12
- Start date
Peter was referring to the wicked, that the wicked has a hard time understanding the scriptures.
God's elect understand the scriptures perfectly.
RESOLUTION
Active Member
King James Bible
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
The Word of God came to man by the Spirit. King James Bible
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
To understand Scripture is not just about the reading but being lead by the Spirit in Truth,
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
God is not trying to hide the truth of Scripture he wants every man to know the truth.
The things of the Spirit are not known to those who do not know or have the Spirit. So it is about choice and what you choose.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Moral relativism is actually part of the problem. "Well, I guess everyone sees different things, so..." so I won't bother studying it seriously.
Pilate, "what is truth?"
Any of Jesus followers could have told him, "truth is the world beyond this one, the one your personal lies are keeping you from."
You thief tells you "don't look closely at that, everyone has there own truth." But Jesus says, "Everyone does have their own journey, yes, but I have come to give you a better life. I want you to be happy, stop sitting on the fence of your own life."
What is the truth? Let's answer Pilate.
The Chief Priests' Story
The lie:
“Now while they (this is speaking of Jesus’ female disciples) were on their way, behold some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all that had happened. And when they had assembled with the elders and counseled together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers and said ‘You are to say His disciples came by night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ And if this should come to the governor’s ears, we will win him over and keep you out of trouble. And they took the money and did as they had been instructed, and this story was widely spread among the Jews as it is to this day.”
The truth:
The Second Coming has already happened. Not Jesus has risen (past tense), but Jesus is risen (eternal present). The person you encounter across the street today is Jesus.
Luke 24:16
John 20:14-15
John 21:4
Mark 16:12
The Gardener - Brian Zahnd
shmogie
Well-Known Member
You are certainly correct. If there were no other books or verses John 3: 16 would be enough.
Like the layers of an onion, the most important and foundational are first, which leads to the next then the next. The most important are easy, and as the layers go deeper they are harder and less important.
Sometimes, it is simply what it is, and we do ourselves a dis service by grasping for some esoteric meaning.
To paraphrase CS Lewis, for many, the less they read the Bible, the greater an expert on what it contains they become.
In truth, the Scriptures are a life or death proposition. God didn´t make them hard to understand, that is rarely the problem, the problem is denying our view of our own godship, and sacrificing that. The understanding and choice are obvious, the hard part is the choice and what it entails.
Making something difficult makes it easy to walk away from it.
sin by ignorance is one thing
sin by willful disregard for the truth is another. the golden rule is not being followed when willfully commiting an action that self knows to be wrong and goes against doing to others what you would not have done to self.
It’s actually very simple. Jesus said @ Matthew 7:20...”By their fruits you will recognize them.” Jesus further stated, “You are my friends if you do what I command you.” — John 15:14.
What did Jesus command? To love God (His Father): Matthew 22:37, from Deuteronomy 6:5; to love your brothers: John 13:34-35; to even love your enemies: Matthew 5:44, and to preach: Matthew 28:19-20 & Matthew 24:14.
1 John 5:3 tells us how we love God: by observing His commandments. That includes avoiding fornication. — 1 Corinthians 6;9-10.
So, if somebody is trying to teach, say, a doctrine from the Bible, but they’re an adulterer....do you think they’d be blessed with God’s spirit, and be the source of correct understanding?
Now let’s take this to a sensitive area....what about ‘loving your enemy’? Don’t you think that would preclude, killing them? What about if the country you reside in, tells you to?
Well, there’s a precedent, in Acts of the Apostles 5. The Apostles were ordered by the authorities to “stop preaching”; what did they do? Verse 29 tells us their response: “We must obey God rather than human beings”!
And that was just w/ preaching! Do you think fighting and taking a life might be a little more serious?
So those who obey humans over God...would they be blessed with God’s spirit, to accurately understand the Scriptures?
Tumah
Veteran Member
If that's the case, seems like He could have just kind of skipped the Scriptures stage and gone straight to the Divinely imparted knowledge, eh?
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
On the other hand, by faith, God will give you all the understanding you need if you ask.
"consider what I say Timothy and the Lord will give you understanding" Timothy
"in reading this you will have my understanding..." Ephesians
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
If I have offended you I apologize. That is not my intent. I think part of the problem is the way this was initially worded. I think some of the scriptures are difficult to understand. However, I still know, that it takes God giving someone understanding even on the basic things, in order to understand things correctly, the way he meant them.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
We have a similar understanding of this verse. Although I don't think it would necessarily have to involve the golden rule.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
To me the truth doesn't change. The scriptures really only mean what God meant for them to mean. That is why it is necessary for God to open someones understanding. What people think is true changes from person to person. Obviously when there are differences then both can't be correct. But there is a truth. That's why we have to search the scriptures, and work out our own salvation, with fear and trembling. It is necessary to seek God to help us understand the truth.
You do gain in understanding at times, so in that sense your understanding of the truth might change.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Ok, you say, You think some of the scriptures are difficult to understand.
As for me I find all scriptures easy to understand.
There is what is written in the scriptures and there is the spirit of the scriptures.
For example, go to the book of Mark 13
What you will read is what is written down.
Now for the spirit, in the book of Mark 13 Christ Jesus has given what the Blasphemy of the Spirit is.
And when it will happen and who can commit it.
Can you find the spirit of the word that Christ Jesus is saying in Mark 13 ?
Segev Moran
Well-Known Member
They are not that hard to understand once you understand some ground rules (Talking only about the Hebrew bible):
1. They are written in ancient time when the vocabulary was much more simple
2. Treat each word as its own and use its literal meaning in the sentence, and its literal meaning as the word itself without the context
3. Learn ancient Hebrew to understand the words. one word in Hebrew can mean many things. Don't mix nowadays meaning with what a word meant 3000 years ago.
4. Read each sentence several times. the literal meaning is pretty simple, now try and think what the meaning of it for you.
As there is no right and wrong, apart from the literal meaning, you can get whatever you want from the scriptures and interpret them as you think. there are no wrong answers
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Good advice. If you can't learn Hebrew, a good concordance works well. The New Covenant, New Testament, written in Koine Greek, has section's to be taken purely literally, and sections with symbolism and metaphor, a little though will pretty much discern which are what and what they mean.They are not that hard to understand once you understand some ground rules (Talking only about the Hebrew bible):
1. They are written in ancient time when the vocabulary was much more simple
2. Treat each word as its own and use its literal meaning in the sentence, and its literal meaning as the word itself without the context
3. Learn ancient Hebrew to understand the words. one word in Hebrew can mean many things. Don't mix nowadays meaning with what a word meant 3000 years ago.
4. Read each sentence several times. the literal meaning is pretty simple, now try and think what the meaning of it for you.
As there is no right and wrong, apart from the literal meaning, you can get whatever you want from the scriptures and interpret them as you think. there are no wrong answers
74x12
Well-Known Member
Although I agree that historical context is very important; overall what you're saying is an atheist's viewpoint. Thanks for the input though.They are not that hard to understand once you understand some ground rules (Talking only about the Hebrew bible):
1. They are written in ancient time when the vocabulary was much more simple
2. Treat each word as its own and use its literal meaning in the sentence, and its literal meaning as the word itself without the context
3. Learn ancient Hebrew to understand the words. one word in Hebrew can mean many things. Don't mix nowadays meaning with what a word meant 3000 years ago.
4. Read each sentence several times. the literal meaning is pretty simple, now try and think what the meaning of it for you.
As there is no right and wrong, apart from the literal meaning, you can get whatever you want from the scriptures and interpret them as you think. there are no wrong answers
I'm glad you're not like many atheists who believe the scriptures are completely worthless. The scriptures at the very least have historical value wouldn't you say?QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
What a ridiculous claim. God has this EXTREMELY important message that He wants ALL of his creations to receive. But instead of conveying that message in clear concise language that virtually anyone could understand, He decides to wrap the vital message up in language that only a small portion of His Creations will correctly interpret. All because humans have a tendency to devalue things that come easily? That's like saying that I have this very important message for my child about not touching a hot stove. But instead of very clearly stating DO NOT TOUCH A HOT STOVE, I decide to convey a coded message that's very hard to understand, all because I don't want the important message to come too easily, just in case my child might devalue it.
Let's take this scenario a step further. Instead of s single child, let's say I have a dozen children that I all want to learn the lesson about not touching the stove. For some silly reason I decide to convey the message in a way that's hard to understand, just so they won't 'devalue' the message. But then I notice that of my dozen children half of them are interpreting my words ONE way and the other half interprets them ANOTHER way. And as a result of this disagreement on how to interpret my message they are violently fighting one another. What kind of a parent would I be if I just stood back and allowed them to kill one another over this disagreement, instead of simply coming to my children and CLARIFYING specifically what I meant in my original message? I would be a very weak and ineffectual parent or a parent who really didn't care if a significant number of my children get burned touching a hot stove. Either way I wouldn't be a parent worthy of anyone's worship.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Yet people are capable of having faith in virtually anything. Making faith a terribly unreliable path to actual truth. I can guarantee you that the morons who flew planes into buildings filled with people back on 9/11 had tremendous faith that that is precisely what God wanted them to do. And if they could be WRONG in THEIR faith, then surely YOU could be WRONG about YOUR faith. The fact that you've convinced yourself that you should have faith in YOUR faith is no different that the 9/11 terrorists having convinced themselves that they should have faith in THEIR faith. Of course they had faith in a DIFFERENT god and faith in a DIFFERENT holy book. Unfortunately the only 'evidence' either of you have that your god and holy book are genuine is that FAITH thing again... which we've already established is NOT a reliable means of ascertaining the truth.
FAR better to use actual verifiable evidence that requires no faith at all for determining reality. Any claim that requires you to resort to faith is a claim unworthy of consideration.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
You're entrapping me to proselytize. A "no no" on these forums.
But only in order to answer your question. The way to test God basically begins by someone having enough faith to give God a try. Unfortunately although God answers many people's prayers that they pray when they are in trouble; they never take that next step and try to grow their faith by actually repenting and drawing nearer to God. That's how faith is increased so people can see even greater miracles.
Okay... so let's say that I decide to place my faith into the God of Islam. I do everything I can to repent and draw nearer to my God. And then my God tells me that it is His desire that I fly an airplane into a building filled with people. According to you faith is a reliable path to truth and I have used faith as you said that I should, thus I can conclude that it's true that God wants me to fly a plane into a building.
If you DON'T agree that God wants me to fly a plane into a building, then you concede that faith is NOT a reliable path to truth.
that sounds like a guess based on comparative reading
that sounds like a researchable fact
It is unreasonable to demand that the universe or God or anyone reveal truth directly to or through ourselves. Therefore when we do there can be comical results.
So its more complicated maybe. Flipping it around -- why have scripture? It seems so human and error prone to do that. Such scripture could even fall into the wrong hands and cause problems.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Lets see, where to begin ? The Bible has been translated into virtually every language on earth. The basic , most important messages of the Bible are easy to understand. You ought to try reading it some time. After all, you do want to stay away from all that heat, don´t you ?