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The scriptures are hard to understand

74x12

Well-Known Member
The problem is that they may all be counterfeit.
Truth exists somewhere. The point is to find it. Faith is logical because faith admits we don't know ourselves and we should put our trust in something greater than ourselves that can show us. Now, I agree that blind faith is not logical. But faith that answers is right.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't know how irrational it really is for any honest person to admit they sin and hurt others and continue to do so in one way or another. The Bible simply states that everyone sins and needs a Savior. It might be hard to admit, we don't like the idea, but I don't think it irrational at all...more like reality.
First one must define one's terms. What is sin? What is a savior and why is one neede? What makes the savior of the Bible special and why should we believe that version?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Truth exists somewhere. The point is to find it. Faith is logical because faith admits we don't know ourselves and we should put our trust in something greater than ourselves that can show us. Now, I agree that blind faith is not logical. But faith that answers is right.
No, faith is far from logical. By faith any sect of any religion can give the answer. It is not a pathway to the truth.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It does...counterfeits are distorted copies of the original or copies with slight flaws, such as counterfeit money. There could be no counterfeit dollar bills if there were not authentic dollar bills.
Nope, that is only redefinition of the word. You are making an equivocation fallacy.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
No, faith is far from logical. By faith any sect of any religion can give the answer. It is not a pathway to the truth.
Well people have faith everyday in something that can do something they can't. Like a GPS devise in their car. A police officer because someone is threatening them or whatever.

What I'm saying is that faith can be logical in a certain situation. So suppose (hypothetically) that God is real and can be contacted by anyone. However, this is not widely known or acknowledged and there are so many counterfeit truths out there that no one knows any more which "truth" is right. They could find out from God. But in order to do that it takes that person having faith otherwise they won't bother. In other words they have to make the effort. So, in this scenario it's logical for this God to make faith the way to know the truth.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well people have faith everyday in something that can do something they can't. Like a GPS devise in their car. A police officer because someone is threatening them or whatever.

What I'm saying is that faith can be logical in a certain situation. So suppose (hypothetically) that God is real and can be contacted by anyone. However, this is not widely known or acknowledged and there are so many counterfeit truths out there that no one knows any more which "truth" is right. They could find out from God. But in order to do that it takes that person having faith otherwise they won't bother. In other words they have to make the effort. So, in this scenario it's logical for this God to make faith the way to know the truth.
No, that is not faith in the same sense at all. Another equivocation fallacy.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The scriptures are hard to understand. If God doesn't reveal the truth; then you won't understand.


The scriptures are not hard to understand,
Not if you understand spiritual discernment of the scriptures.

God does reveal the truth of the scriptures

Why would God give the scriptures, But yet make the scriptures hard to understand.
Unto which does not make no sense at all

God gives to those the truth of his word, That has Spiritual discernment.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1st Corinthians 2:14

( neither can he know them)
The scriptures, for they are spiritually discerned.
God gives to those who have spiritual eyes to understand the spirit of the scriptures.

This is why alot of people will mock, speak evil of those things which they do not understand.

In the book of Mark 13, Christ Jesus given what the Blasphemy of the Spirit is.
And when it will happen, And by who can commit the blasphemy of the Spirit.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
A GPS device can be easily tested. What reasonable test would show your beliefs to be wrong if they are wrong? If you can't think of a reasonable test then they are not in the same category at all.
I see what you mean. You don't think God can be tested. I would agree with you in that hypothetical situation where God could not be tested. Then yes I gave bad analogies. Yet on a personal level God can be tested. So the scripture says "O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him." (Psalm 34:8)

So trust in God is answered according to the scriptures. The God of the Bible doesn't want people hanging on until they die to see the result of their faith. Of course if that is the only level of faith that people ever come to; then that was their choice.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The scriptures are not hard to understand,
Not if you understand spiritual discernment of the scriptures.

God does reveal the truth of the scriptures

Why would God give the scriptures, But yet make the scriptures hard to understand.
Unto which does not make no sense at all

God gives to those the truth of his word, That has Spiritual discernment.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1st Corinthians 2:14

( neither can he know them)
The scriptures, for they are spiritually discerned.
God gives to those who have spiritual eyes to understand the spirit of the scriptures.

This is why alot of people will mock, speak evil of those things which they do not understand.

In the book of Mark 13, Christ Jesus given what the Blasphemy of the Spirit is.
And when it will happen, And by who can commit the blasphemy of the Spirit.
Then what rational test can be used to judge whether someone is right or not in their interpretations?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
The scriptures are not hard to understand,
Not if you understand spiritual discernment of the scriptures.

God does reveal the truth of the scriptures

Why would God give the scriptures, But yet make the scriptures hard to understand.
Unto which does not make no sense at all

God gives to those the truth of his word, That has Spiritual discernment.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1st Corinthians 2:14

( neither can he know them)
The scriptures, for they are spiritually discerned.
God gives to those who have spiritual eyes to understand the spirit of the scriptures.

This is why alot of people will mock, speak evil of those things which they do not understand.

In the book of Mark 13, Christ Jesus given what the Blasphemy of the Spirit is.
And when it will happen, And by who can commit the blasphemy of the Spirit.
Yes God gives discernment and understanding. That's what I said in the first place. Without that you can't know the scriptures. But even then it's not necessarily easy ... if a man thinks he knows anything ... he knows nothing yet as he ought to know it. (1 Corinthians 8:2)

So there is always something more to learn.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I see what you mean. You don't think God can be tested. I would agree with you in that hypothetical situation where God could not be tested. Then yes I gave bad analogies. Yet on a personal level God can be tested. So the scripture says "O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him." (Psalm 34:8)

So trust in God is answered according to the scriptures. The God of the Bible doesn't want people hanging on until they die to see the result of their faith. Of course if that is the only level of faith that people ever come to; then that was their choice.
the problem with self interpretation is that your interpretation will be different from others.

A consistent test not subject to personal bias is needed to be reliable.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
For example the concept of a God existing is easy to understand. (Although it's not always easy for people to believe, it's easy to understand.)

I actually, understand and practiced the deeper meaning; its an experience I never read in scripture just the Body who shared like sentiments. To me, it devalues the experience when one confirms the truth by words before the Word "him" rather than its, self.

I agree, anyone can get the basic message. Knowing god exists is pretty deep beyond reading intellect. Since I dont know god apart from jesus in the trinity (no bahai, muslim, nor jewsh god), I pretty much looked at the bible secondary to jesus himself.

Ive been accused of not knowing christ because I dont quote the bible. To me, it goes beyond that. Believe me, if I believed jesus' father exists and were comfortable with human sacrifice Id be devoted 24/7. Probably wouldnt be on RF.

Belief is easier through personal experience. If one depends on the bible (rather than jesus) to define their experiences, Im at a lost. But then I never saw christ as someone "beyond" me. No higher. No almighty. No "The."

Shrugs.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Yes God gives discernment and understanding. That's what I said in the first place. Without that you can't know the scriptures. But even then it's not necessarily easy ... if a man thinks he knows anything ... he knows nothing yet as he ought to know it. (1 Corinthians 8:2)

So there is always something more to learn.

Nope, if you had read what Christ Jesus has said in the book of Mark 13:23
"But take you heed, behold, I have foretold you all things"

Therefore Christ Jesus foretold all things within the scriptures

You know had you back up to the beginning of
1st Corinthians Chapter 8, you would have found that Paul speaking about things offered to idols.
Verse 1
"Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge,
knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth"

Therefore what you quoted of Verse 2, Paul is speaking about those things offered to idols. For Veres 1 and 2 goes together.

Had you started at the beginning of
Chapter 8 and pick up what the subject is about, then you would haved seen Paul speaking about things offered to idols.

You do as alot of people do, pick out one verse and build on it.
Had you went to the beginning of chapter 8, and pick up what the subject is about. Then go from there.
 
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74x12

Well-Known Member
Nope, if you had read what Christ Jesus has said in the book of Mark 13:23
"But take you heed, behold, I have foretold you all things"

Therefore Christ Jesus foretold all things within the scriptures

You know had you back up to the beginning of
1st Corinthians Chapter 8, you would have found that Paul speaking about things offered to idols.
Verse 1
"Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge,
knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth"

Therefore what you quoted of Verse 2, Paul is speaking about those things offered to idols. For Veres 1 and 2 goes together.

Had you started at the beginning of
Chapter 8 and pick up what the subject is about, then you would haved seen Paul speaking about things offered to idols.

You do as alot of people do, pick out one verse and build on it.
Had you went to the beginning of chapter 8, and pick up what the subject is about. Then go from there.
It means exactly what it says. In context it is about idols, but anything means anything.

It means that if anyone thinks they know something they do not know it as well as they should know it.

What of the words of Agur(Gatherer) the son of Jakeh(Blameless) in Proverbs 30:1-3?

Proverbs 30:1-3 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal, 2 Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man. 3 I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.

True wisdom is to admit we have not learned wisdom and that we do not have knowledge of the holy. That's true wisdom. What I'm saying is that there is no end to the things that God may reveal. For now we see as if through a mirror dimly ... (1 Corinthians 13:12) It is in heaven where people know everything they want to know. On earth; not so.

And the scriptures are not easy to understand otherwise everyone would believe. But it says "And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not." (Isaiah 6:9) Yes Jesus foretold them all things but these are only revealed through the holy Spirit. Without the holy Spirit showing them; people are not going to see.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I think its too easy to pretend to be a bible teacher. The world is full of talking heads claiming to teach about the books in this ancient tome. It is easy to read with the intent of looking for a sign, looking for a story or looking for material to speak about. For example there are several mentions of rain and clouds, so you can whip up a sermon about clouds tossing in some tangent thoughts. In the process you can beat the drum about other subjects ... like the devil, call to prayer, call to volunteer or donate. Anybody can do it, and they can look studious without much effort.
 
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