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To Know or Not To Know... That Is The Question

Tony Price 77

New Member
Hi. I'm new to the forum and I wanted to post a thread here since debates are not allowed in the Jehovah's Witnesses forum. Also, even though I'm a former Jehovah's Witness, this debate is for anyone to participate in.

But to start off, quoting from JWs' translation of the Bible, The New World Translation, Genesis 18:20-21 says:

Then Jehovah said: "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is very heavy. I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it."

So in essence, Jehovah is saying that he NEEDS to go down to see whether or not the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are acting accordingly to the outcries and complaints against them. And if they are not, then he can get to know that too.

But my question is: Why would Jehovah NOT know every little thing that is going on in a recently fallen and now sinful world, and isn't keeping a VERY close eye on it? Because something doesn't sound right to me. Therefore, could either a Jehovah's Witness or anyone else, please explain these verses to me?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Just as an FYI. Of the 51 other versions of the Bible I checked, all say pretty much the same thing:

"I will go down," "I want to go down," "I shall come down," "I go down now," "I must go down," and "I am going down."

But your point is well taken. The Bible has god doing a lot of stuff that's contrary to his accepted nature.


And, welcome to RF.
handshake-smiley-emoticon.gif
but watch out for anyone who doesn't eat spinach.

.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Maybe you ignore that what is translated into Greek as ò Theòs (God)...is not a single word.
- In the very first chapter of the Genesis God is called Elohim
-At a certain point, with Abraham, he is called El Shaddai
- Then, with Jacob he is called YHWH


Conclusions? They're not the same person...

(Btw...the most shocking thing is that "God" and the 2 angels have a meal with Abraham)
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Maybe you ignore that what is translated into Greek as ò Theòs (God)...is not a single word.
- In the very first chapter of the Genesis God is called Elohim
-At a certain point, with Abraham, he is called El Shaddai
- Then, with Jacob he is called YHWH


Conclusions? They're not the same person...

It would certainly seem that way.


I find Elohim is regarded as a grammatically plural noun. I think meaning gods or deities.


YHWH leads me to the Tetragrammaton. The Hebrew God specifically.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Maybe you ignore that what is translated into Greek as ò Theòs (God)...is not a single word.
- In the very first chapter of the Genesis God is called Elohim
-At a certain point, with Abraham, he is called El Shaddai
- Then, with Jacob he is called YHWH


Conclusions? They're not the same person...

Conclusion: A rose by any other name. . . .

.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Reading poetic language as literal fact is the mistake, here. Once you stop doing that, you may be able to ascertain and focus on the essential ideal being conveyed by this mythical story.
 

Tony Price 77

New Member
Just as an FYI. Of the 51 other versions of the Bible I checked, all say pretty much the same thing:

"I will go down," "I want to go down," "I shall come down," "I go down now," "I must go down," and "I am going down."

But your point is well taken. The Bible has god doing a lot of stuff that's contrary to his accepted nature.


And, welcome to RF.
handshake-smiley-emoticon.gif
but watch out for anyone who doesn't eat spinach.

.

Hi, Skwim. And thanks for the warm welcome. Also, because I'm used to debating with JWs, I've gotten into a habit of quoting from their Bible so that having a different translation saying something a bit different won't be an issue with them. :)
 

Tony Price 77

New Member
Maybe you ignore that what is translated into Greek as ò Theòs (God)...is not a single word.
- In the very first chapter of the Genesis God is called Elohim
-At a certain point, with Abraham, he is called El Shaddai
- Then, with Jacob he is called YHWH


Conclusions? They're not the same person...

(Btw...the most shocking thing is that "God" and the 2 angels have a meal with Abraham)

Thank you for your reply, Luca85. Also, it might take me a little while to process what you said, therefore, it might be a little while before I respond to your post. :)
 

Tony Price 77

New Member
Reading poetic language as literal fact is the mistake, here. Once you stop doing that, you may be able to ascertain and focus on the essential ideal being conveyed by this mythical story.

I see. So what do you think the essential ideal is which is being conveyed by this mythical story?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I see. So what do you think the essential ideal is which is being conveyed by this mythical story?
The ideal is that sooner or later we humans will suffer the consequence for our immoral behavior. Ancient Judaic religious belief, like most ancient religious belief, presumed that natural disasters were the direct result of the wrath of the gods. And that nature, itself, was a manifestation of the 'divine will'. One of the reasons the ancient Jews believed that homosexuality was immoral, for example, was because they believed it was an 'unnatural' expression of sexuality. And anything 'unnatural' was also considered 'ungodly'.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Why would Jehovah NOT know every little thing that is going on in a recently fallen and now sinful world, and isn't keeping a VERY close eye on it? Because something doesn't sound right to me. Therefore, could either a Jehovah's Witness or anyone else, please explain these verses to me?
Easy to explain. The Bible is mostly fiction.
 

Tony Price 77

New Member
The ideal is that sooner or later we humans will suffer the consequence for our immoral behavior. Ancient Judaic religious belief, like most ancient religious belief, presumed that natural disasters were the direct result of the wrath of the gods. And that nature, itself, was a manifestation of the 'divine will'. One of the reasons the ancient Jews believed that homosexuality was immoral, for example, was because they believed it was an 'unnatural' expression of sexuality. And anything 'unnatural' was also considered 'ungodly'.

I see. But if what you're saying is true, then I'm sorry to say, but I don't really care. Because the only reason why I started this thread was for the purpose of debating Bible apologists who actually do believe that these Bible stories are literal Gospel truths that we have to heed and have to abide by.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Just as an FYI. Of the 51 other versions of the Bible I checked, all say pretty much the same thing:

"I will go down," "I want to go down," "I shall come down," "I go down now," "I must go down," and "I am going down."

But your point is well taken. The Bible has god doing a lot of stuff that's contrary to his accepted nature.


And, welcome to RF.
handshake-smiley-emoticon.gif
but watch out for anyone who doesn't eat spinach.

.

I believe you read the Bible with minimal understanding. because there is no way that can happen.
 
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