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The space was smoke
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
james blunt
Well-Known Member
They know? Share the answer
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
At the beginning it was smoke and scientists were able to trace the formation of stars
from the remnants of the smoke.
Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)
It looks like smoke, the same view of the smoke of cigarette, those who tried to refute the verse
were focusing on the word smoke to be wrong, close but not scientifically the right word.
Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the
beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning.
Moreover it describes that it's planned to be so and not just happened to be so with no choice(unwillingly).
Just your thoughts, why the prophet needed to make up such a verse if he was making it from his imaginations?
First how do you know it was prophet Muhammad, Seeing how Muhammad couldn't read or write, But had his wife read and write for him, But how do people not know that Muhammad's wife wrote things without Muhammad knowing anything about it.
Seeing Muhammad couldn't read or write ?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How were clouds described?
That's great, but that is not how the universe looked at the time of creation. The "smoke" thing you're looking at happened around 400 million years after the big bang. It appears the Koran got it wrong. I guess you can just toss it aside then, as a book of science.
And now, for your education, some actual science:
"During the first three minutes of the universe, the light elements were born during a process known as Big Bang nucleosynthesis. Temperatures cooled from 100 nonillion (1032) Kelvin to 1 billion (109) Kelvin, and protons and neutrons collided to make deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen. Most of the deuterium combined to make helium, and trace amounts of lithium were also generated.
For the first 380,000 years or so, the universe was essentially too hot for light to shine, according to France's National Center of Space Research (Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales, or CNES). The heat of creation smashed atoms together with enough force to break them up into a dense plasma, an opaque soup of protons, neutrons and electrons that scattered light like fog.
Roughly 380,000 years after the Big Bang, matter cooled enough for atoms to form during the era of recombination, resulting in a transparent, electrically neutral gas, according to NASA. This set loose the initial flash of light created during the Big Bang, which is detectable today as cosmic microwave background radiation. However, after this point, the universe was plunged into darkness, since no stars or any other bright objects had formed yet.
About 400 million years after the Big Bang, the universe began to emerge from the cosmic dark ages during the epoch of reionization. During this time, which lasted more than a half-billion years, clumps of gas collapsed enough to form the first stars and galaxies, whose energetic ultraviolet light ionized and destroyed most of the neutral hydrogen.
For the first 380,000 years or so, the universe was essentially too hot for light to shine, according to France's National Center of Space Research (Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales, or CNES). The heat of creation smashed atoms together with enough force to break them up into a dense plasma, an opaque soup of protons, neutrons and electrons that scattered light like fog.
Roughly 380,000 years after the Big Bang, matter cooled enough for atoms to form during the era of recombination, resulting in a transparent, electrically neutral gas, according to NASA. This set loose the initial flash of light created during the Big Bang, which is detectable today as cosmic microwave background radiation. However, after this point, the universe was plunged into darkness, since no stars or any other bright objects had formed yet.
About 400 million years after the Big Bang, the universe began to emerge from the cosmic dark ages during the epoch of reionization. During this time, which lasted more than a half-billion years, clumps of gas collapsed enough to form the first stars and galaxies, whose energetic ultraviolet light ionized and destroyed most of the neutral hydrogen.
Source: Our Expanding Universe: Age, History & Other Facts
So, now that the Koran's "science" has been smashed to bits, are you going to admit the Koran, or at least your reading, is full of "smoke"? Be honest.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
You're wrong simply because the quran was mentioning the time when earth was created and the space was smoke, please read the verse carefully.
gnostic
The Lost One
At the beginning it was smoke and scientists were able to trace the formation of stars
from the remnants of the smoke.
Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)
It looks like smoke, the same view of the smoke of cigarette, those who tried to refute the verse
were focusing on the word smoke to be wrong, close but not scientifically the right word.
Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the
beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning.
Moreover it describes that it's planned to be so and not just happened to be so with no choice(unwillingly).
Just your thoughts, why the prophet needed to make up such a verse if he was making it from his imaginations?
How it was look like at the beginning during the formation of earth?
How Was Earth Formed?
The core accretion model
Approximately 4.6 billion years ago, the solar system was a cloud of dust and gas known as a solar nebula. Gravity collapsed the material in on itself as it began to spin, forming the sun in the center of the nebula.
How Was Earth Formed?
How Earth Was Born
First off.
The most common matters in the universe, are hydrogen and helium.
Hydrogen and helium are gases in normal room temperature, but in stars where they are mostly found, are in plasma state, hence at very high temperature.
As shunyadragon repeatedly point to you, in space, there are interstellar medium, mostly comprise of hydrogen, helium and dust particles (dust as in debris from previous supernovas or from debris expelled by shedding out layers of red giant stars). None of it had anything to do with smoke.
Hydrogen and hydrogen are not “smoke”.
Smoke are by-product gases, as in waste, and mostly useless by-product. And they are mostly found in burning, and mostly chemical composed of carbon monoxide (meaning carbon and oxygen) and might contained hydrogen cyanide. The only use for smoke, is smoking meat (for preservation, cooking and flavouring) and in fumigation (pest control).
Carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide don’t exist in deep space.
Second, if you are talking about the formation of the solar system, including Earth, then it composed of interstellar matters, not smoke.
Third, if you are talking about beginning as in before stars and galaxies, then the young universe was completely in plasma state, no ordinary matters exist, not even hydrogen and helium. And certainly there was never any smoke.
As I stated earlier, “smoke” is mostly useless by-product gas, that don’t exist in space.
Interstellar hydrogen and helium are not smoke.
You equating description for verse in the Qu’ran with formations of Earth, galaxies or universe, by “smoke”, only demonstrated you complete lack of understanding in modern astronomy and physical cosmology.
The equivocation that you use, is a fallacy, trying to false attribute one (eg religious matters) with another (eg science), is a common tactics used by dishonest and ignorant theist.
gnostic
The Lost One
This image is merely an artist representation.This is how it was look like, it looks like smoke, I'm not saying what it contains
or consists of, but the the view looks smoke.
There are no such actual images of this anywhere in space. And you certainly wouldn’t see such image in any telescope or Hubble photos.
To quote your words, referencing what the Quran was referencing, "Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning." The beginning of Creation is the Big Bang. If you think it was when earth was formed, well, I'm not sure how to help you.
The earth wasn't formed until 9.3 billions years after Creation, which happened 13.8 billion years ago. So either you're talking about the formation of earth 4.5 billion years ago, or you're talking the "beginning of creation" which was 13.8 billion years ago. Which is it now? Are you saying the Quran thinks they happened at the same time? Do you believe the Big Bang happened and earth poofed into existence at that instant?
If you can't distinguish smoke from extremely high-energy plasma then you're going to get very nasty burns.
And if the statements that the earth then existed, and that it had a will, are intended as accurate reports about reality, then they totally fail.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
We give meaning to words, the scene is exactly looks like smoke regardless of what
we use the word smoke for.
If I asked you what you see in this picture, will you say wood or car, even though that we
know that cars have metallic body but still it looks as a car.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Of course it's artist imagination which assuming how it was looked like at the beginning.
It's the work of scientists and not amateurs.
Is the Sun a Star? What Kind/Type of Star is the Sun?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Yes at the beginning of the creation of the sun and our solar system, I didn't say about the big bang
which was mentioned in one other verse which says they were one body before God let them apart.
“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)
If only we can prove that life can exist without water then the quran will be dead, lucky Muhammad.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
We give meaning to words, the scene is exactly looks like smoke regardless of what
we use the word smoke for.
"Initial gaseous mass" and "clouds of gaseous matter" can very easily be described by ancient humans as "smoke".
- If you go out in a dark night and watch the white/grey band of the Milky Way, how would you describe this scenario?
This is an astute observation.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
I didn't think about it before or tried to look at it, maybe the prophet loves to investigate the space and innovates some verses accordingly.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Not really, even ancient Greeks described it as a vast collection of stars, where in history
were described as smoke, tell me
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Of course the prophet "loves to investigate the space". This is what the cultural Stories of Creation deals about.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
If you cannot see the symbolic resemblance between "a cloud of white dust" and "a band of celestial smoke", I think you have to wider your mythical/symbolic horizon
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
If you cannot see the symbolic resemblance between "a cloud of white dust" and "a band of celestial smoke", I think you have to wider your mythical/symbolic horizon
Tell me where in history it was thought to be smoke, to make it easier for you, I think
the prophet thought about it when he saw the clouds in the sky in a rainy day and then
he said Oh, I found it, that was the beginning of the creation, kind of smoke.
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