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For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

Apologes

Apologes

Active Member
Hockeycowboy said:
If you're referring to the Noachian Flood....

Because Jesus believed it. Matthew 24:37-39.
Grief. He was there!
Click to expand...

You're assuming that's the only possible way to understand that verse.

The author of Matthew was writing to Jewish Christians and regularly appealed to the Old Testament to prove his points. He could've simply used Noah in the same sense.
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
I wonder what the ^ above ^ has to do with Adam.
Adam was Not deceived. God did Not set up Adam to be deceived as per 1 Timothy 2:14.
If Adam had Not broken God's Law we would have eternal life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
More like Adam deliberately committed suicide to join Eve in her rebellion.
Adam was Not forced, Not deceived, but deliberately made himself into a rebel against his God.
Click to expand...

Let's see. Adam did all of these things because GOD created EVE with so many obvious FLAWS. That's what it has to do with Adam.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Deeje said:
The thread is in Interfaith Discussion and is addressed to Christians. We are not inviting input from atheists.
So here's hoping that we can keep it as a discussion between people of faith. :)

Ooops too late. :rolleyes:
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Haha. I guess atheist cant read. *coughs* I think the flood is true. It could be the pangea theory, or fact, for lack of better words, in that all the countries were built in one unit before the flood etc broke it up between the oceans.

Spiritually, I wouldnt know. I dont see the connection. Not all atheists are bad but this site does have an atheist tilt to it.
 
Thermos aquaticus

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Haha. I guess atheist cant read. *coughs* I think the flood is true. It could be the pangea theory, or fact, for lack of better words, in that all the countries were built in one unit before the flood etc broke it up between the oceans.
Click to expand...

Since "true" can mean so many things, I don't know how helpful that statement is. One could argue that Aesop's Fables hold truth, or that the Harry Potter books hold truth.
 
Thermos aquaticus

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
True as in a statement of fact rather than truth, something accepted as true even though it is not always be fact.
Click to expand...

So how many specific details are true then? If a flood is high enough to cover put a boat up into the mountains of Ararat, then we are talking about a flood that covered almost all land across the globe. It also puts the flood in recent times, not during the era when Pangea was around.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Thermos aquaticus said:
So how many specific details are true then? If a flood is high enough to cover put a boat up into the mountains of Ararat, then we are talking about a flood that covered almost all land across the globe. It also puts the flood in recent times, not during the era when Pangea was around.
Click to expand...

The spiritual part like the ark, Im not familar with. I see no connection. The theory of pangea, some scientists, well those my professor quotes, say based on the shape of the countinents, it was once one block. Since there is more ocean than land, it would make sense.
 
Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Unveiled Artist said:
The spiritual part like the ark, Im not familar with. I see no connection.
Click to expand...

God considers many things before he undertakes an action.

There are so many spiritual applications we can make with the entire narrative of Genesis 6-8.

1) The fact that rebel angels can have a negative impact on the way humans behave. The earth had become "filled with violence" on account of the activities of a race of supernaturally produced bullies, whose dominance and immoral ways had permeated every human activity. It became a natural way of life for them. It was not natural for Noah.

2) That God will not tolerate interference with his purpose and will step in directly only when necessary to keep this plans on track, otherwise he has given the devil a free hand to test the human race. (see Job Ch 1 & 2)
He will not allow us to go beyond our individual level of tolerance however. (1 Corinthians 10:13) The devil wants to test our resolve to serve our God in love. He claims that we only do it out of self interest.....that if he makes the going tough, we will cave in and abandon our Creator.....we can prove otherwise.

3) That God can determine who is worthy to live and who is deserving of death by the choices they make. That is his right to determine as our Sovereign ruler. But he judges the heart and the motives, not just the actions.

Noah is called "a preacher of righteousness" to those who were victims of the flood. He gave them options to live and they ignored his warning. Jesus used this prophetically as an example of the greater judgment to come. (Matthew 24:37-39)

4) God can give humans instructions on how to save themselves, rather than have them expect that he will just shield them from the devil's activities with no effort on their part. Jesus told Simon Peter..."Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have made supplication for you that your faith may not give out".

The devil is testing all of us....and the majority are failing, just they did in Noah's day....and for all the same reasons. :( It seems we never learn.

Humans must follow God's directions to the letter if they want to survive the final judgment. We have choices to make and an example from the past to use in our decisions. For those who obey the Creator, and prove that the devil is a liar, the rewards will be in keeping with what they have endured, as it was with Job. (Job 42:12-16)

That is how I see things.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
QuestioningMind said:
Let's see. Adam did all of these things because GOD created EVE with so many obvious FLAWS. That's what it has to do with Adam.
Click to expand...
Adam simply could choose to either obey Eve or obey God.
In other words, Adam could choose who he loved more.
Adam simply chose Eve over his Creator and Father.
Seems more like Eve, so to speak, was 'without' obvious flaws since Adam loved her so much.
Kind of like a Romeo and Juliet.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Im not familar with how noaks arch connects with the flood.
My professor quoted scientists who suggests that the world continents were once together (do to their shape and history). It made sense since our planet is made up of more water than land.
Click to expand...
'More water than land' is because the water canopy surrounding the Earth broke loose bringing down those flood waters in Noah's day.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Deeje said:
God considers many things before he undertakes an action.

There are so many spiritual applications we can make with the entire narrative of Genesis 6-8.

1) The fact that rebel angels can have a negative impact on the way humans behave. The earth had become "filled with violence" on account of the activities of a race of supernaturally produced bullies, whose dominance and immoral ways had permeated every human activity. It became a natural way of life for them. It was not natural for Noah.

2) That God will not tolerate interference with his purpose and will step in directly only when necessary to keep this plans on track, otherwise he has given the devil a free hand to test the human race. (see Job Ch 1 & 2)
He will not allow us to go beyond our individual level of tolerance however. (1 Corinthians 10:13) The devil wants to test our resolve to serve our God in love. He claims that we only do it out of self interest.....that if he makes the going tough, we will cave in and abandon our Creator.....we can prove otherwise.

3) That God can determine who is worthy to live and who is deserving of death by the choices they make. That is his right to determine as our Sovereign ruler. But he judges the heart and the motives, not just the actions.

Noah is called "a preacher of righteousness" to those who were victims of the flood. He gave them options to live and they ignored his warning. Jesus used this prophetically as an example of the greater judgment to come. (Matthew 24:37-39)

4) God can give humans instructions on how to save themselves, rather than have them expect that he will just shield them from the devil's activities with no effort on their part. Jesus told Simon Peter..."Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have made supplication for you that your faith may not give out".

The devil is testing all of us....and the majority are failing, just they did in Noah's day....and for all the same reasons. :( It seems we never learn.

Humans must follow God's directions to the letter if they want to survive the final judgment. We have choices to make and an example from the past to use in our decisions. For those who obey the Creator, and prove that the devil is a liar, the rewards will be in keeping with what they have endured, as it was with Job. (Job 42:12-16)

That is how I see things.
Click to expand...

Thats very expansive. It doesnt enter how I see the world. The connection between spiritual arch and flood and physical physical flood (no arch) described via history and, hate the word, science are more than a cry apart difference. Thats why I cant see the connection. Not more so the bible says there is, but finding a compilation of facts from various sources that explain both the spiritual and physical discriptions you provided as part of historical geology. In having those various resources, we can study the connection and put the spiritual aspects in our books as facts just as evey other mark in history.

We see things in various ways. Nothing wrong with that. The bible and other spiritual books such as native american are so out there in the discription of our origin that unless a person is raised in that faith since birth, I honestly cant see how spiritual revelation will change the nature of how life works.

But the spiritual connection I mean connecting the bible to life outside it. I dont see them one and the same.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
'More water than land' is because the water canopy surrounding the Earth broke loose bringing down those flood waters in Noah's day.
Click to expand...

Quick research from wiki *cringes*

335 million years ago, and it began to break apart about 175 million years ago.

Was Noah around that long ago?

Compared to this

Jewish history begins with the covenant established between God and Abraham around 1812 BC (over 3,800 years ago), during the Bronze Age, in the Middle East. The Torah (Jewish Law), the primary document of Judaism, was given to the Jews by the Prophet Moses (Moshe) about 3,300 years ago.

3,300 thousand versus millions is a huge gap.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
'More water than land' is because the water canopy surrounding the Earth broke loose bringing down those flood waters in Noah's day.
Click to expand...
I think that most of the waters came from the 'springs of the vast watery deep (Genesis 7:11)', i.e., subterranean, with Psalms 104 explaining that 'the valleys fell, and mountains rose'.

Remember how Moses described the Creation account regarding the light, that light was observed on Day 1, but the 'luminaries' weren't distinguished until Day 4? It was all described as seen from an observer on the Earth, not from a distant outside position?

Well, the same at the Flood....the "mountains rose" from the vantage point of someone who would have been on the ground; as the valleys fell, the mountains would seem to be rising. What apparently had happened, was that the Earth collapsed inward on itself, to some degree. This would force the subterranean waters, upwards, inundating everything. (Mountain ranges apparently have been discovered to have what could be compared to "root systems" underneath them, according to 'Putnam's Geology'. Also: The Geological Society of London. No doubt this would have some beneficial effect on them during the Flood and the underground waters gushing out.)

Take care.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hockeycowboy said:
I think that most of the waters came from the 'springs of the vast watery deep (Genesis 7:11)', i.e., subterranean, with Psalms 104 explaining that 'the valleys fell, and mountains rose'.

Remember how Moses described the Creation account regarding the light, that light was observed on Day 1, but the 'luminaries' weren't distinguished until Day 4? It was all described as seen from an observer on the Earth, not from a distant outside position?

Well, the same at the Flood....the "mountains rose" from the vantage point of someone who would have been on the ground; as the valleys fell, the mountains would seem to be rising. What apparently had happened, was that the Earth collapsed inward on itself, to some degree. This would force the subterranean waters, upwards, inundating everything. (Mountain ranges apparently have been discovered to have what could be compared to "root systems" underneath them, according to 'Putnam's Geology'. Also: The Geological Society of London. No doubt this would have some beneficial effect on them during the Flood and the underground waters gushing out.)

Take care.
Click to expand...
latest
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
Faithofchristian said:
Is there evidence for a global.
That all depends on which flood your referring to.
There were two floods that happen.

There's the flood of Noah's,which didn't cover the whole earth.

And there's the flood that covered the whole earth, Which took place before Adam and Eve came into existence.
Click to expand...
Neither of them have ever occurred.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Subduction Zone said:
The problem is that all of the evidence tells us that there was no flood.

I see that you believe in a "local flood". The problem with a local flood is that it makes the Ark pointless. People would have survived regardless, as would animals. To be a threat of extinction for man or a significant number of species local just would not cut it.
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I believe I fail to see your logic if there is any. Why can't the flood be local? There is no mention of extinction. There is no mention of other survivors but that could simply be because it wasn't important enough to mention. As for a boat, I believe I have seen people traverse through their neighborhoods in boats in floods in this country and it didn't rain for forty days to produce those minor floods.
 
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