Please debate me one-on-one

I want to debate a believer in sola fide,

Click to expand...

I'm all for Sola Fide and Sola Gratia. Just look at my nick. I hope I am not too late. I may not be able to post every day, but calvinism just so happens to be my favorite subject of debate. BTW, If you can't tell, I completely agree with the basic tenets of Calvinism from a Biblical and philosophical perspective.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

I'd debate you, but I don't think one needs belief in order to be saved...
I think we're all saved regardless.

I disagree with that completely, it says God loves us all, but it never says anywhere in the Bible that all are saved

Geoffthe3rd said:

I disagree with that completely, it says God loves us all, but it never says anywhere in the Bible that all are saved

Click to expand...

You're more than free to think what you want.

My Bible says 1) God is love, 2) love is unconditional, 3) God provides us, through love, with the gift of grace. Therefore, grace is unconditional. That's oversimplified due to time constraints (and the fact that this is sort-of off topic), but, in a nutshell, that's why I believe what I believe.

with the gift of grace.

Click to expand...

The key point i would make is that it is a gift - therefore we have to receive it/accept it. A gift is not a gift if it is forced upon someone that does not want it - we have a choice to accept it or to reject it.
So what happens to those people who reject God's gift of salvation, who reject God's unconditional love and want nothing to do with him? Why did God have to offer us this gift in the first place? What happens to those who don't receive this gift?

Ro 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Click to expand...

What about those that reject and do not receive?

God is an unconditional loving God, but he wont keep those who dont want him. Remember he gave us free will to choose him, and if we dont then why would he change his mind and just keep them anyways

Geoffthe3rd said:

God is an unconditional loving God, but he wont keep those who dont want him. Remember he gave us free will to choose him, and if we dont then why would he change his mind and just keep them anyways

Click to expand...

The key point i would make is that it is a gift - therefore we have to receive it/accept it. A gift is not a gift if it is forced upon someone that does not want it - we have a choice to accept it or to reject it.
So what happens to those people who reject God's gift of salvation, who reject God's unconditional love and want nothing to do with him? Why did God have to offer us this gift in the first place? What happens to those who don't receive this gift?

Click to expand...

I don't want to usurp Squirt's thread. Should I begin a new one on unconditional grace? Anyone interested?

I don't think it's unconditional grace we are debating here - rather unconditional salvation.
If you believe this then there is no point debating with you, since the Bible clearly teaches that there is a Hell and there are people who will not be saved. This verse below ends the debate:

Lu 13:3 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Click to expand...

If it was unconditional they wouldn't have to repent. Those who do not repent will perish.Now back to the original thread.

OK, this is taking the thread off topic (what was the topic, btw?), but grace and salvation are linked. Here's a metaphor I've used before to show my view.

You know the story about the minister explaining salvation to someone in which the minister holds out a dollar and asks the questioner to take it, it's a free gift, it's theirs? OK, so in this scenario the minister is making the point that even though the dollar is being freely offered, it's not 'recieved' until it is accepted and taken in hand. I agree with this so far. Salvation is the dollar and God holds it out to us freely to accept. The difference is that in the story the minister eventually will put the dollar back in his pocket if the other person does not take it from him.

Unconditional grace implies that God never ever puts the dollar back in His pocket, not even after you've physically died to this world. You get to the pearly gates and there He is, still holding out the dollar.

Actually, I don't worry too much about the afterlife salvation, for me or anyone else. Salvation is for this life too. Trusting in God, really trusting in God, will profoundly change the way you live your life.

peace,
lunamoth

lunamoth said:

OK, this is taking the thread off topic (what was the topic, btw?), but grace and salvation are linked. Here's a metaphor I've used before to show my view.

You know the story about the minister explaining salvation to someone in which the minister holds out a dollar and asks the questioner to take it, it's a free gift, it's theirs? OK, so in this scenario the minister is making the point that even though the dollar is being freely offered, it's not 'recieved' until it is accepted and taken in hand. I agree with this so far. Salvation is the dollar and God holds it out to us freely to accept. The difference is that in the story the minister eventually will put the dollar back in his pocket if the other person does not take it from him.

Unconditional grace implies that God never ever puts the dollar back in His pocket, not even after you've physically died to this world. You get to the pearly gates and there He is, still holding out the dollar.

Actually, I don't worry too much about the afterlife salvation, for me or anyone else. Salvation is for this life too. Trusting in God, really trusting in God, will profoundly change the way you live your life.

peace,
lunamoth

Click to expand...

I'd megafrubal ya if I could!

Endless said:

I don't think it's unconditional grace we are debating here - rather unconditional salvation.
If you believe this then there is no point debating with you, since the Bible clearly teaches that there is a Hell and there are people who will not be saved. This verse below ends the debate:


If it was unconditional they wouldn't have to repent. Those who do not repent will perish.Now back to the original thread.

Click to expand...

I'm going to start another thread.

sojourner said:

I'd megafrubal ya if I could!

Click to expand...

Thanks, sojourner. luna

Endless said:

Interesting comment. I do believe we are saved by faith alone - but like the Bible says, Faith without works is dead. So the works originate from our faith, if there are no works then we don't have a faith. We can say we do but we do not truly have faith. But we can have works without faith. That will get us nowhere.
I guess my position is that Faith is what saves us, work is as a result of our faith - but works will not save us. But once saved, always saved is what i hold to as well. We become saved when we accept Jesus' sacrifice for our sins - that is by faith, the works then follow as we live a Christian life - the works a result of our continued faith.

That make sense? :areyoucra I've had a long day

Click to expand...

If you think we cannot lose our salvation,would you please tell me what
( 2 Peter 2:20-22 ) is talking about? If you will just wite me a PM so we won't take up time on this thread. in love Baerly