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All Religions More Equal than Different?

Booko

Deviled Hen
gnostic said:
Have you read any of the Hindu texts, Booko?

The Bhagavad-Gita, Upanishads, Laws of Manu, and Mahabarata, though it's been years since I read most of those. Heck, I only ran across Laws of Manu stuffed in the basement vault of the library I worked at for a while.

Do you think these Hindu deities, whom you have linked with Christian archangels, to have sex with their mothers, daughters or sisters?

I have not "linked" them, but rather pointed out the possibility that there is a similar "level" of creation where they reside, but that God or the Absolute is higher than all.

As for having sex, it's a common thing in early religions for that sort of behaviour. What of it?

You of all people should know the attitude of Christians in regarding to sex, particularly in regarding to adultery and incest. Sex is not really a problem to Hinduism, but Christians do have a problem with angels and sex together.

You mistake my meaning.

Would you like to respond to the idea that the "Uncreated, Unformed..." mentioned in the Bhagavad-Gita and echoed in the Dhammapada sound eerily like an Infinite God-figure?
 

Genna

Member
Not trying to sound ignorant but Deities can have sex? You mean there can be baby gods? If I had sex with a deity, would I have a half human/deity baby?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Super Universe said:
If I throw ten darts at a board and eight stick, why does everyone run to see about the two that didn't?
If the goal is a perfect score, the two misses matter.

Don't look for differences and multiply them to an incredible degree. Especially when it only serves to cause confusion. Why make it tougher than it needs to be? If that is your nature, then it will be so until you decide to change it.
There's no need to multipy differences, but I don't think it does any good to ignore them either. What's to be gained by pretending that we agree on things where we don't?

How is Wiccan opposed to Christianity? How is do their teachings conflict? Do you think Christ is against the environment? Against the earth?

How does Buddhism conflict with Christianity?
Well, I don't claim to be an expert on either Wicca or Buddhism, but to the best of my knowledge neither one of these religions asserts that Jesus is the Son of God or the Savior of mankind. Since this is the basis on which Christianity was founded, it strikes me as a rather significant difference of opinion.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Genna said:
Not trying to sound ignorant but Deities can have sex? You mean there can be baby gods? If I had sex with a deity, would I have a half human/deity baby?

In ancient mythos and in D&D, thems would be "demigods."
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
Super Universe said:
I believe that all the world religions come from the same source, a representative of God.

So they cannot be against one another nor can they conflict except where changes have been made to the original interpretation.

Aren't they more alike than different? And aren't the only real differences in language and rituals?

First of all, so sorry for jumping in the middle without wading through all of the posts, hope it's okay if I just respond to the OP.

From a traditional Christian POV: no, no, and no. Except regarding #2 in the case where the God of the O.T. is the same God worshipped in Judaism and Christianity.

Personally I wouldn't be able to support this premise in view of the claims of Christ and the apostles, and the exclusivity apparent throughout the NT.

For example this from another thread: (post #25)

Moon Woman said:
Also from God's Word:

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
From Ephesians 1

----------------------------

Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written:
"See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

From Romans 9

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And Isaiah boldly says,
"I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."

From Romans 10

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The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
From John 10

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He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
From John 6

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Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
-----------------------------------------------------
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes.
----------------------------------------------------
II Thess. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation.
----------------------------------------------------
John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
----------------------------------------------------
John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you
----------------------------------------------------

I Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered...who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father
------------------------------------------------------------

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
From I Peter 2

--------------------------------------------------------

and finally from Romans 8:


And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns?

Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.


For I am convinced that neither death nor life,
neither angels nor demons,
neither the present nor the future,
nor any powers, neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."



So you see, Christians who accept their scriptures are pretty much attached to the risen Christ as their savior and the son of God. It's the core and central theme of Christianity.

For most Christians any denial of Christ in those terms would be a denial of Christianity as it declares itself to be.

Other religions, understandably, can't tolerate or accept those NT claims. If the divinity, Messiah-hood and Sonship of Christ was surgically removed from Christianity, it would not just require a "different translation" of the bible - huge portions of it would have to be cut out completely. Such would not only render the patient useless, it would render the patient dead.

As always, IMHO
-mw
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"Jesus did not come here to make bad people good.
Jesus came here to make dead people live". - Ravi Zacharias
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
GoldenDragon said:
Are you asking if every religion that exists comes from the same source or are you trying to ask if religions have more in common with each other than differences?
Or origins maybe?

I asked both. This gives people the opportunity to really compare and contrast the pro's and con's.

But some cannot think about both. They got stuck, and are still stuck (will always be stuck), on the first question.
 

arthra

Baha'i
Well you know.. I would suggest that religions as we have them today were not always so well defined as to dogma and theology...these belief structures took centuries to form and while accepted by many people are still debated and controversial..

But back to my point...

The Judaism of today is different from the Judaism of Christ's day and yet different again from the times of Abraham.. The same with Christianity...The beliefs of second century Christians were not the same as those during the Reformation and I would suggest than the ideas of Christians today.

Religions I think go through stages where they are more permeable..they are not as structured or consistently so as people may suppose.

- Art
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Katzpur said:
If the goal is a perfect score, the two misses matter.

There's no need to multipy differences, but I don't think it does any good to ignore them either. What's to be gained by pretending that we agree on things where we don't?

Well, I don't claim to be an expert on either Wicca or Buddhism, but to the best of my knowledge neither one of these religions asserts that Jesus is the Son of God or the Savior of mankind. Since this is the basis on which Christianity was founded, it strikes me as a rather significant difference of opinion.

If someone believes that Christ came here for the purpose of showing us that He was God, then that is their choice to believe but Christ never says that He is the Creator. In fact, He talks about His Father a great deal.

Christ did not say "Make me a shrine and praise me each Sunday between 11 and 12!"

Christ taught forgiveness, whether or not that is any human's understanding of what Christianity is about is completely their choice. But at some point they should ask themselves "Why do I believe this way?"
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Super Universe said:
But some cannot think about both. They got stuck, and are still stuck (will always be stuck), on the first question.

Yes, every religion comes from the same source: humans.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Moon Woman said:
From a traditional Christian POV: no, no, and no. Except regarding #2 in the case where the God of the O.T. is the same God worshipped in Judaism and Christianity.

I took this slice from your post because it is very telling. We all believe certain things for a reason but we rarely think about the real motivation for those beliefs.

Your post says that God is the same for Judaism, Christianity, and I will add Islam, yet you say that the religions are not the same. Why?

Is it against Christianity to pray five times a day?
If I claim that Jesus was a prophet can I no longer be a Christian, one who follows Jesus?
If I believe that we should not kill any animal to eat, is that against any teaching in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism?
If I follow all of Jesus teachings but I do not consider Him to be anything but a normal human, how am I not following His ways?

Think about your motivation. Why are there a thousand Christian sects that all claim to be different when the rest of the world sees them as the same thing?

It's a clique. "Me and my group are better, we are going to heaven because we perform this one certain ritual this one specific way. God accepts this one over all the other rituals because that is what's really important to Him. We will teach others how to do this one ritual and it will be good in God's eyes."

Is this what you believe? That God chooses you over another?

It's about God, the one Creator, it's not about some ritual you just invented to show how much faith you have. That ritual ends up dividing people.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Super Universe said:
I believe that all the world religions come from the same source, a representative of God.

So they cannot be against one another nor can they conflict except where changes have been made to the original interpretation.

Aren't they more alike than different? And aren't the only real differences in language and rituals?
How do the "atheists" and "agnostics" fit in to your theory?

the doppleganger
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
doppleganger said:
Where do the atheists and agnostics fit in?

the doppleganger

Does an athiest do good towards their fellow man? Do they give to charity?

Does one teach their children how to forgive others?

If so, they are a better Christian than some Christians.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Super Universe said:
Does an athiest do good towards their fellow man? Do they give to charity?

Does one teach their children how to forgive others?

If so, they are a better Christian than some Christians.

Great answer!

doppleganger
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Super Universe said:
I believe that all the world religions come from the same source, a representative of God.

So they cannot be against one another nor can they conflict except where changes have been made to the original interpretation.

Aren't they more alike than different? And aren't the only real differences in language and rituals?

Hi!

Very much so, yes! :)

As it says in the Baha'i scriptures,

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."
(Gleanings, page 217)

Best!

Bruce
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
James 1:27: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

and 2:12-13:"Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!"

the doppleganger
 

GoldenDragon

Active Member
Super Universe said:
I asked both. This gives people the opportunity to really compare and contrast the pro's and con's.

But some cannot think about both. They got stuck, and are still stuck (will always be stuck), on the first question.

I pretty much know how you feel I asked a question about what 2 religions had in common with each other,anything on the common grounds, anything in common at all on 2 different religion forums and well no one could find anything in common except for ONE thing because they were more focused on what they DIDN'T have in common so to me it felt like a "failed" conversation. I guess in truth there are only bits and pieces that are in common that actually matter.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Genna said:
Not trying to sound ignorant but Deities can have sex? You mean there can be baby gods? If I had sex with a deity, would I have a half human/deity baby?
Clearly you have not seen polytheistic religions or read the myths, Genna.

Take for ancient Greek religion/mythology for example, the deities can have family, through sex, and sometimes through other bizzare means. And yes, deity can have sex and babies with mortal, and such offspring are called demi-god.

The same goes with Egyptian and Hindu religions. The story of Osiris and Isis. Although, Osiris was murdered by his brother, Isis managed to get semen with magic from her brother/husband, and she became pregnant with Horus.

Even, in the Bible, there are angels who coupulated with mortal women, and sired giants, whom the Jews called Nephilim (Genesis 6). The wickednesses of these angel/human offspring and ordinary humans were the cause of the biblical Flood. In the Book of Enoch (as well as in the Haggada and in the Book of Jubilees), which expanded on this angel/Nephilim story, say that the 200 angels who were involved, became fallen angels, ie demons, they were barred from returning to heaven for their sins. However, the Jubilees and Enoch are not canonical literature, so they are usually not included in the Bible. The Haggada, on the other hand, is Jewish legend, based on the Jewish literature, such as the Tanakh, Talmud, Misdrash, etc.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Super Universe said:
I believe that all the world religions come from the same source, a representative of God.

So they cannot be against one another nor can they conflict except where changes have been made to the original interpretation.

Aren't they more alike than different? And aren't the only real differences in language and rituals?
doppleganger said:
How do the "atheists" and "agnostics" fit in to your theory?
Atheists and agnostics are secular or non-religious people. Atheism and agnosticism are religion, but both has to do with theism, thus the "belief of the existence of god". The atheists say that there are no gods, while the agnostics believed that theism can neither be proven or disproven.

I don't know the origin of atheism, but agnosticism started out by a 19th century English biologist, T.H. Huxley, who wanted religious dogma to be taught or be of influence in the field of science or hinder the progress of science with religious psuedo-science. It was due to Huxley's effort that religious idea were removed from science classrooms.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
gnostic said:
I don't know the origin of atheism, but agnosticism started out by a 19th century English biologist, T.H. Huxley
Huxley may have coined the term agnostic we use in English today, but even he acknowledged that he was borrowing the idea from Hume, who also wasn't the first one to argue knowledge of 'God' is an impossibility.

the doppleganger
 
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