Does a Christian, regardless of sect, really have the right to condemn a woman who has an abortion?

John 8:3-16:

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

A person can adhere to the word, but the listener is the one who determines if they want to spiritually change. Who am I to judge a listener or a member of church who Is seeking spiritual guidance? Who is anybody to judge a sinner? That brings me to abortion. Who is a sinner to judge one who has an abortion? There are many complicated reasons for an abortion; therefore, who is a sinner to judge? The definition of an evangelical, other than the sect, is one who puts the old self away to spiritually adhere to the way and teachings of Christ. Not that I am judging, but one who becomes evangelized, is one who understands not to judge or condemn. I just do not see how a sinner can condemn a person who has an abortion. A priests calling is to teach or recite the word. the listener is the one who decides to spiritually change while living in a world that has a lot of adversity, surprises and imperfections.
People come to a temple or church to share prayer ; they may not be perfect


Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences I wrote this purposely to look like

spiros said:

Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences....

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NEVER! Standards of human decency must be upheld at all costs!

spiros said:

John 8:3-16:

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

A person can adhere to the word at a church, but the listener is the one who determines if they want to spiritually change. Who am I to judge a listener or a member of church who Is seeking spiritual guidance? Who is anybody to judge a sinner? That brings me to abortion. Who is a sinner to judge one who has an abortion? There are many complicated reasons for an abortion; therefore, who is a sinner to judge? The definition of an evangelical, other than the sect, is one who puts the old self away to spiritually adhere to the way and teachings of Christ. Not that I am judging, but one who becomes evangelized, is one who understands not to judge or condemn. I just do not see how a sinner can condemn a person who has an abortion. A priests calling is to teach the word. the listener is the one who decides to spiritually change while living in a world that has a lot of adversity, surprises and imperfections.

Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences I wrote this purposely to look like

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They have no power to condemn. Abortion is very complicated issue. It is ultimate transformation - murder.

spiros said:

John 8:11.... She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

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Don't forget that part.

A woman who has an abortion has had too much sects already.

spiros said:

John 8:3-16:

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Click to expand...

Many Bibles omit this story as a later addition to John's gospel. But the lesson is powerful none the less and in keeping with what Jesus taught and said.

A person can adhere to the word, but the listener is the one who determines if they want to spiritually change. Who am I to judge a listener or a member of church who Is seeking spiritual guidance? Who is anybody to judge a sinner? That brings me to abortion. Who is a sinner to judge one who has an abortion? There are many complicated reasons for an abortion; therefore, who is a sinner to judge?

Click to expand...

Abortion has become a very unfortunate but common means of birth control in relatively recent decades as laws have become more relaxed....and since humans can and must control their reproductive capabilities, to only have as many children as they can reasonably care for, there are other methods of birth control that do not require the death of a living fetus.

Abortion is the termination of a life. The DNA is already programmed to produce a human being and everything about what that person will look like....their height, build, hair, skin and eye color as well as their inherited personality traits. It is not simply the removal of a few cells....it is the death and removal of a potential person. Graphic pictures of aborted fetuses often demonstrate that these fragile little people are literally torn limb from limb in the process. Most people do not understand how early a fetus becomes recognizable as a human.

This is the feet of a 10 weeks gestation fetus.



You hardly even know you are pregnant at 10 weeks.

The definition of an evangelical, other than the sect, is one who puts the old self away to spiritually adhere to the way and teachings of Christ. Not that I am judging, but one who becomes evangelized, is one who understands not to judge or condemn. I just do not see how a sinner can condemn a person who has an abortion.

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No one is condemned for acting in ignorance. But once you know exactly what you are terminating, you become responsible for your actions. Making someone aware of this in connection with abortion is not condemnation but hopefully the beginning of repentance, leading to forgiveness. So many women have trouble forgiving themselves.

We all sin many times and no sin committed in ignorance is ever charged against anyone who is genuinely repentant. But we live in an age of knowledge now, so ignorance is no real excuse. Once a life has begun, no human has the right to terminate their existence unless there is a genuine medical reason to do so. Inconvenience is not a reason to have an abortion. Childless couples would give anything to have what others throw away.

A priests calling is to teach or recite the word. the listener is the one who decides to spiritually change while living in a world that has a lot of adversity, surprises and imperfections.
People come to a temple or church to share prayer ; they may not be perfect.

Click to expand...

There were actually no priests in original Christianity. There were shepherds appointed to care for the flock. These shepherds were also teachers so if they do their job, all will be cognizant of the issues surrounding abortion from a scriptural perspective. All Christians are under obligation to adhere to Christ's teachings. The sanctity of life was reinforced in all the scripture Jesus used in his preaching activity.(That was the OT)

Exodus 21:22-25 (NLT)....."Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. 23 But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, 24 an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, 25 a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise."

If the life of the unborn child was lost, the one who caused its death paid with his own life.
If this is how God viewed the unborn, then how should we?

Paul of tsarsus, formerly saul, and Moses did terrible things yet God gave them redemption. I dont condone Moses and Paul actions just like some do not condone abortion. Who am I to judge or condemn? We are supposed to be tolerant of our neighbor because merciful God is the one who will review us after our experience here.

Here is one of many similar verses that references:

James 4:11-12
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


Here are a couple of other verses:

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Romans 14:10-13 (KJV)
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Hockeycowboy said:

Don't forget that part.

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And don't forget "those who are without sin cast the first stone"

Not really, especially if the woman in question is not a Christian.

spiros said:

John 8:3-16:

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

A person can adhere to the word, but the listener is the one who determines if they want to spiritually change. Who am I to judge a listener or a member of church who Is seeking spiritual guidance? Who is anybody to judge a sinner? That brings me to abortion. Who is a sinner to judge one who has an abortion? There are many complicated reasons for an abortion; therefore, who is a sinner to judge? The definition of an evangelical, other than the sect, is one who puts the old self away to spiritually adhere to the way and teachings of Christ. Not that I am judging, but one who becomes evangelized, is one who understands not to judge or condemn. I just do not see how a sinner can condemn a person who has an abortion. A priests calling is to teach or recite the word. the listener is the one who decides to spiritually change while living in a world that has a lot of adversity, surprises and imperfections.
People come to a temple or church to share prayer ; they may not be perfect

Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences I wrote this purposely to look like

Click to expand...

First you didn't take the time to explain exactly why, they couldn't stone the woman found in adultery.

Do you know why ?
Care to explain ?

Maybe if you had any understanding and knowledge of what the Bible does say.
So far you showed nothing.

Except to pick out a verse here and there, but shows nothing.

Deeje said:

Many Bibles omit this story as a later addition to John's gospel. But the lesson is powerful none the less and in keeping with what Jesus taught and said.



Abortion has become a very unfortunate but common means of birth control in relatively recent decades as laws have become more relaxed....and since humans can and must control their reproductive capabilities, to only have as many children as they can reasonably care for, there are other methods of birth control that do not require the death of a living fetus.

Abortion is the termination of a life. The DNA is already programmed to produce a human being and everything about what that person will look like....their height, build, hair, skin and eye color as well as their inherited personality traits. It is not simply the removal of a few cells....it is the death and removal of a potential person. Graphic pictures of aborted fetuses often demonstrate that these fragile little people are literally torn limb from limb in the process. Most people do not understand how early a fetus becomes recognizable as a human.

This is the feet of a 10 weeks gestation fetus.

You hardly even know you are pregnant at 10 weeks.

No one is condemned for acting in ignorance. But once you know exactly what you are terminating, you become responsible for your actions. Making someone aware of this in connection with abortion is not condemnation but hopefully the beginning of repentance, leading to forgiveness. So many women have trouble forgiving themselves.

We all sin many times and no sin committed in ignorance is ever charged against anyone who is genuinely repentant. But we live in an age of knowledge now, so ignorance is no real excuse. Once a life has begun, no human has the right to terminate their existence unless there is a genuine medical reason to do so. Inconvenience is not a reason to have an abortion. Childless couples would give anything to have what others throw away.



There were actually no priests in original Christianity. There were shepherds appointed to care for the flock. These shepherds were also teachers so if they do their job, all will be cognizant of the issues surrounding abortion from a scriptural perspective. All Christians are under obligation to adhere to Christ's teachings. The sanctity of life was reinforced in all the scripture Jesus used in his preaching activity.(That was the OT)

Exodus 21:22-25 (NLT)....."Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. 23 But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, 24 an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, 25 a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise."

If the life of the unborn child was lost, the one who caused its death paid with his own life.
If this is how God viewed the unborn, then how should we?

Click to expand...

Oh, please. The deity of the Bible is hardly pro-life. Time and time again, he orders the killing of children, infants and pregnant women (including ripping them open). Yahweh also even orders abortions by instructing a woman who is suspected of being unfaithful to go a priest who will give the woman a drink causing her to abort the fetus if she's pregnant by another man. Apparently she would be stoned to death soon after if she was. That's in Numbers 5. So Yahweh is only "pro-life" when the pregnant woman is knocked up in marriage to an Israelite man. Then it's a crime to kill the fetus because it's part of the tribe (but apparently the real crime there is harming the woman so even Israelite fetuses aren't viewed as persons. Oops!). Non-Israelite? Conceived outside of marriage? Fair game to kill.

God is not Pro-Life – Evil Bible .com

You're not exactly "pro-life" yourself as I just got on you the other day for talking like Hitler in another thread and praising genocide. You even referred to the Canaanite's unborn children as "disgusting offspring". Now you want to act all sanctimonious? Revolting!

socharlie said:

They have no power to condemn. Abortion is very complicated issue. It is ultimate transformation - murder.

Click to expand...

How is it murder?
It isn't illegal, nor is it even mentioned in the Bible.
Tom

Faithofchristian said:

First you didn't take the time to explain exactly why, they couldn't stone the woman found in adultery.

Do you know why ?
Care to explain ?



Maybe if you had any understanding and knowledge of what the Bible does say.
So far you showed nothing.

Except to pick out a verse here and there, but shows nothing.

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Well I am not being serious when I write th3se things. but my cherry picked verses that you are referring to all basically imply the same thing: thou shall not judge. These are just a few of many verses and chapters that elaborate this.

For instance, I feel like judging somebody but then come to realize that i did the same thing years which then I realize Jesus beatitudes teaching of Mathew 7:1-5

columbus said:

How is it murder?
It isn't illegal, nor is it even mentioned in the Bible.
Tom

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simple: I was fetus, you were fetus every living human was fetus - it is necessary stage of physical life, it does not matter at what point physical life forcefully interrupted - it is called murder.

spiros said:

There are many complicated reasons for an abortion

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Including biblical ones. A jealous paranoid husband "proved" his wife was cheating on him if he dragged her to priests who gave her a potion which resulted in an aborted fetus. Since that "proved" she cheated on him, that would also mean he could stone her to death. "Divorce" was just too complicated for some men, I guess.

columbus said:

How is it murder?
It isn't illegal, nor is it even mentioned in the Bible.
Tom

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It is, though. It's actually supportive, even if the reason is atrocious.

spiros said:

Romans 14:10-13 (KJV)
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

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I don't think I would regard abortionists as my brother and sister.

Isn't it rather a case of

1 Cor 5: "12 What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

socharlie said:

simple: I was fetus, you were fetus every living human was fetus - it is necessary stage of physical life, it does not matter at what point physical life forcefully interrupted - it is called murder.

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I agree.
But it's nothing to do with religion or scripture.
Elementary biology describes human beings coming into existence at conception and ending at death.
My secular values include "It's wrong for human beings to choose death for other human beings".
Totally nonreligious.
But I have read the bible and have a laymans knowledge of the cultural worldviews of the day. "Living" meant "draws breath ". Fetuses don't breathe so I doubt that the authors of scripture would have forbidden abortion, or considered it murder. And children were generally considered chattel, property of the father. If a father didn't want an unborn baby I doubt that anyone would have objected morally to termination of the pregnancy.
Tom

columbus said:

I agree.
But it's nothing to do with religion or scripture.
Elementary biology describes human beings coming into existence at conception and ending at death.
My secular values include "It's wrong for human beings to choose death for other human beings".
Totally nonreligious.
But I have read the bible and have a laymans knowledge of the cultural worldviews of the day. "Living" meant "draws breath ". Fetuses don't breathe so I doubt that the authors of scripture would have forbidden abortion, or considered it murder. And children were generally considered chattel, property of the father. If a father didn't want an unborn baby I doubt that anyone would have objected morally to termination of the pregnancy.
Tom

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it may or may not to do with religion or bible, fetus came first.
bible only says that good consciousness does not allow murder, original purpose of most scriptures is instilling The Golden Rule which you partially mentioned above.

socharlie said:

bible only says that good consciousness does not allow murder,

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But if abortion isn't killing then how can it be murder?
Tom

columbus said:

But if abortion isn't killing then how can it be murder?
Tom

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but there is killing- murder everywhere, sick consciousness justifies that...