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Jesus' Temptation to Idolatry
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
Interesting question; the overall answer is yes 99%... Yet that takes careful dissection of the text to understand properly.
In the Synoptic Gospels when called "Good master", he detracts from personal praise, and points to the God Most High.
Whereas in the fake Gospel of John made up by the Sanhedrin to discredit him, they repeatedly tell people to believe in him, and show times he is worshiped, etc.
In Paul and Simon the stone's ministry as well, they turn jesus into an object of worship.
Now comes the tricky bit, the Tanakh prophesied in Isaiah 28:9-21, etc that the Lord himself will make a bed of adultery, with him self in the middle of it, to cause many to fall and stumble because of it.
So on the one hand the Lord appears in human form, and doesn't tell people to worship him; yet to only worship the God Most High who creates everything, and then men who crept in after have created the idolatry, through their lack of understanding.
In my opinion.
No. The motivation is as different as giving someone a hug versus giving them a dose of an addicting drug to get them hooked.
Interesting question; the overall answer is yes 99%... Yet that takes careful dissection of the text to understand properly.
In the Synoptic Gospels when called "Good master", he detracts from personal praise, and points to the God Most High.
Whereas in the fake Gospel of John made up by the Sanhedrin to discredit him, they repeatedly tell people to believe in him, and show times he is worshiped, etc.
In Paul and Simon the stone's ministry as well, they turn jesus into an object of worship.
Now comes the tricky bit, the Tanakh prophesied in Isaiah 28:9-21, etc that the Lord himself will make a bed of adultery, with him self in the middle of it, to cause many to fall and stumble because of it.
So on the one hand the Lord appears in human form, and doesn't tell people to worship him; yet to only worship the God Most High who creates everything, and then men who crept in after have created the idolatry, through their lack of understanding.
In my opinion.
to believe = to worship?
TheBannerofHomuraAkemi
Active Member
Probably not. I suspect God has more important things to do then that.
outlawState
Deism is dead
Yes, it is exactly so, except the manner of the temptation is entirely different. Satan works through the flesh, pride, vanity etc. He appeals to the "me" principle. Jesus works through the heart and the mind and using the rational principle, but ultimately through authority of God himself. Faith is a command, and the only alternative is rejection and rebellion against God.The great "choice" is the path that one choses to follow, which is as laid down in the Old Testament. So its a choice of which temptation, loosely put.
Deu 30:15-20
"Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster. For I command you this day to love the LORD your God and to keep his commands, decrees, and regulations by walking in his ways. If you do this, you will live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you and the land you are about to enter and occupy......."
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I do consider Christianity a type of "carrot on a stick religion". I would say you could arguably say yes.
jesus wasn't present when moses spoke those words from Deut
also, if my body is the Temple of God's Spirit; where then is Jesus who supposedly returns from without/outside/apart from us.
outlawState
Deism is dead
I think the Word was then present and the Word became Jesus.
God's spirit is the Holy Spirit which stands before the throne and goes to and fro in the earth, but no-one knows where (John 3;8). Jesus the risen one. (i.e. the Word) sits on the throne and remains there until he re-appears.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
My opinion tends to be that Jesus was a mystic and a wisdom teacher. I've expressed such in other threads. Therefore he probably didn't mean himself when he spoke in glorified terms, but when one sees God as oneself- such distinction can lose any meaning. He clearly believed the Father was in others as well as himself. See: John 17:23
One way of realizing Brahman is to know that the Supreme Lord is not fundamentally separate from oneself. Another way can be to direct your devotion and spiritual focus toward someone that realizes such, until you realize it.
I've mentioned to you before that idolatry as a concept loses all meaning at a certain point. One of those points is in a broad spiritual scope.
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outlawState
Deism is dead
That's not what John 17:23 actually says. It says "Jesus in others, the Father in Jesus." Jesus came to make the Father known. "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God;" Jn 6;46.
About as removed from Christianity as one could envisage, where souls can be destroyed. How could they be if "the Supreme Lord is not fundamentally separate from oneself?"
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
If the Father is in Jesus and everyone is in Jesus- what is the actual difference?
Oh, was I speaking about Christianity? Well no, in Christianity one might not see themselves as the Supreme Lord. Of course one also might. Catholicism has a mystic tradition.
outlawState
Deism is dead
The difference is only one of order for the "Father and I are one." In Christianity, order is very important as it is divinely created. The Father is the head of Christ. Christ is the head of man. 1 Cor 11;13. A man who is in Christ recognizes Christ as his head. A man who claims to be in the Father and who does not own Christ is, in Christian terms, just deluded.
Catholicism is quite deluded, and when it comes to the claims of the Pope, not Christian at all (nothing in the bible about any Pope except the man "doomed to perdition" 2 Thess 2;4).
it says nothing was made that wasn't made of it. Jesus was made just like you and I because the bible says God doesn't play favorites.
outlawState
Deism is dead
I don't know what Jesus you're referring to. Jesus said, "before Abraham was born I am." Of course Jesus body was made. But with the Word we are talking about spirit beings too high for you to apprehend, who are "invisible and who dwell in unapproachable light." Are you really qualified to comment?
Yeah, it does because the NT promises one eternal life if you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and eternal damnation if you reject him.
most indubitably I AM. I AM the light, a city that sets on a hill. I cannot be hid.
before abraham i am melchizedek, also known as hermes. i am the head of the order after which jesus was fashioned.
I AM conceived of the Spirit. I AM born from genesis 1:2
John 3:8
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
outlawState
Deism is dead
I have not the faintest idea what you're talking about. You're not even speaking sense.
genesis 1:2 talks about the spirit hovering over the waters.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
when jesus told the pharisees, who respected abraham and saw him as their patriarch, that before abraham was I AM; he was telling them he was melchizedek. melchizedek was the lord of God Most High. abraham was glad to see melchizedek. they were not.
this is why jesus is a priest forever after the order of melchizedek. jesus and melchizedek were one and the same spirit. jesus told that another would come, the spirit of truth.
Melchizedek was a canaanite. He was the son of canaan, who was the son of Ham. Cham was the name of egypt, or egyptians, in ancient times. Some believe melchizedek was also called hermes. Hermes was the founder of hermeticism and al-chem-y. alchemy is found in the bible; especially in the OT
Deuteronomy 4:20
But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of chem(Egypt), to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.
alchemy is the idea of turning lead into gold by fire, trial by fire, or smelting.
Psalm 66:10
For you, God, tested us; you refined us like silver.
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outlawState
Deism is dead
Heb only says that Christ was a priest for ever in the order of Melchizedek. He never said that he was Melchizedek. We can suppose that Melchizedek was a priest appointed directly by God by some exercise of divine favour bestowed on him.
We have no idea who Melchizedek was. In fact the bible explicitly says that we have no idea who he was, or who his parents were.
I have no idea how you are making a connection between Melchizedek and Ham. In Chazalic literature Melchizedek is a nickname for Shem.