-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Of Religion And Money
- Thread starter cardero
- Start date
bigvindaloo
Active Member
cardero said:
Would the worship of God survive without those structures? Is there something more to the worship of God beyond those structures or are those structures the worship of God? I'm not sure religions as charitable organisations need more than a post-office box to operate.
cardero
Citizen Mod
John 12:4 -8
4 But Judas Is·car´i·ot, one of his disciples, who was about to betray him, said: 5 Why was it this perfumed oil was not sold for three hundred de·nar´i·i and given to the poor people? 6 He said this, though, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief and had the money box and used to carry off the monies put in it. 7 Therefore Jesus said: Let her alone, that she may keep this observance in view of the day of my burial. 8 For YOU have the poor always with YOU, but me YOU will not have always.
I could not begin to understand the kind of poverty that Jesus and the disciples had to endure but at the same time I would be interested in knowing what Jesus would do with $40,000,000 today.
4 But Judas Is·car´i·ot, one of his disciples, who was about to betray him, said: 5 Why was it this perfumed oil was not sold for three hundred de·nar´i·i and given to the poor people? 6 He said this, though, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief and had the money box and used to carry off the monies put in it. 7 Therefore Jesus said: Let her alone, that she may keep this observance in view of the day of my burial. 8 For YOU have the poor always with YOU, but me YOU will not have always.
I could not begin to understand the kind of poverty that Jesus and the disciples had to endure but at the same time I would be interested in knowing what Jesus would do with $40,000,000 today.
MOD POST MOVED TO COMPARATIVE RELIGIONS FORUM
This is a difficult subject, and, to be fair one that has occurred to me before. The Roman Catholic Church is one where, traditionally, in poorer countries, the followers of the Faith have given without a second thought. On the other hand, the RC Church spends vast sums on charities and helping the poor.
I would say that a true 'follower' of any faith would want the place where he and like minded folk meet to pray to be beautified. Here, in England, we have hundreds (if not thousands) of churches that have been around for centuries; the renovation and restoration costs are phenomenal and churches are always asking for donations.
Is ir right ? It could be argued that Churches are an intrinsic part of our cultural heritage, and as such, need to be kept in fine condition. Is that diverting money from more needy 'charities' ? probably, but then the same could be said about much of public funding on space exploration (as an example).
This is a difficult subject, and, to be fair one that has occurred to me before. The Roman Catholic Church is one where, traditionally, in poorer countries, the followers of the Faith have given without a second thought. On the other hand, the RC Church spends vast sums on charities and helping the poor.
I would say that a true 'follower' of any faith would want the place where he and like minded folk meet to pray to be beautified. Here, in England, we have hundreds (if not thousands) of churches that have been around for centuries; the renovation and restoration costs are phenomenal and churches are always asking for donations.
Is ir right ? It could be argued that Churches are an intrinsic part of our cultural heritage, and as such, need to be kept in fine condition. Is that diverting money from more needy 'charities' ? probably, but then the same could be said about much of public funding on space exploration (as an example).
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
As for religion and money, this from the Bard pretty much sums it up for me:
"Misery aquaints a man with strange bed-fellows."
the doppleganger
"Misery aquaints a man with strange bed-fellows."
the doppleganger
smiling4ever
New Member
no.........
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
cardero said:
The buildings are a witness of God's grace. They bear testimony to the world that what God has done for humanity deserves our attention. We build all kinds of momuments to remember our great leaders, soldiers, and ideals. Those churches will stand as a momument to hope and faith. They will testify that human talent, time, and provisions have been cooraborated in the name of God. The buildings will stand as places of refuge, solace, and reflection.
I have no doubt also that we will see these churches serve as places of community service for all types of programs for children, families, and meet the needs of the poor and homeless in the area.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Furthermore, criticizing churches for spending millions of dollars on renovations is complete BS. Churches cannot carry out their ministry and message from any other place. They cannot use public property because of the seperation of church and state. They cannot use businesses because it will cost business their profits.
The church is forced then to use private self-sustaining property that must be maintained and administered at cost.
The church cannot control property value, the cost of workmanship, and the rising cost of materials. Then we have to pay for architect fees, zoning fees, and a whole gaggle of other building permits and inspections in order to build or renovate, which drives the costs up.
Because the church has to have private buildings on private property to carry out its mission and ministry, it is a direct attack on the Christian message to attack its spending on property.
The church is forced then to use private self-sustaining property that must be maintained and administered at cost.
The church cannot control property value, the cost of workmanship, and the rising cost of materials. Then we have to pay for architect fees, zoning fees, and a whole gaggle of other building permits and inspections in order to build or renovate, which drives the costs up.
Because the church has to have private buildings on private property to carry out its mission and ministry, it is a direct attack on the Christian message to attack its spending on property.
cardero
Citizen Mod
michel said:
I think that people seem to believe that it is the responsibility of the church alone to solve all the problems of our societies and I do not mean to put all of this burden on religious shoulders but there does seem to be a missionary duty or an obligation to relieve these problems if not only through a ministry but through the examples that Jesus promoted throughout the Bible. But when I see the inside of some of these churches or the outside of some of these temples and cathedrals, the cost of maintenance, supplies, decorations and the time that is distracted from keeping these facilities running, one sometimes has to wonder, if this is what GOD had in mind.
Mark 10:19-23
19 You know the commandments, Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother. 20 The man said to him: Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth on. 21 Jesus looked upon him and felt love for him and said to him: One thing is missing about you: Go, sell what things you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower. 22 But he grew sad at the saying and went off grieved, for he was holding many possessions.
23 After looking around Jesus said to his disciples: How difficult a thing it will be for those with money to enter into the kingdom of God!
cardero
Citizen Mod
Honestly speaking, in the year and half that I have known you Angellous, I would say that you are a more durable example of Gods grace than any building.
But do they have to be over-extravagant both inside and out?
I like bigvindaloos answer (post #2) about operating out of a P.O. Box. Also the Jehovahs Witnesses preach their ministry door to door, they go to other peoples houses.
(I think I may have just solved the need for P.O. Boxes)
cardero
Citizen Mod
I am trying to compile information from the net about the amount of money that is spent annually from different religious but unfortunately the only information the internet is shoving in my face is television evangelism networking and other Christian sects. Though I will try to respond to all faiths, I assure you, my intention is not the focused solely on Christianity.Engyo said:
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
All -cardero said:
I made the comment I did because I know of fantasitcally beautiful and expensive Buddhist temples, Moslem mosques, Hindu temples, and Christian churches. I don't know enough about Judaism to know if there are synagogues done up like this, but it wouldn't surprise me. It seems to be a human thing, rather than specific to any one religion.
Blame the Egyptians, they started it with the pyramids!
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Engyo said:
We were talking about Christianity, and I was implying no such thing.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
cardero said:
I was born in a Methodist Hospital. Without the millions of dollars given to the construction of Methodist hospitals in Texas, the healthcare system would look very different here. My grandfather has had three heart attacks since May, and has been in Methodist hospitals every time. I deeply appreciate the Christian love that was shown to him and my family in our time of suffering.
I am being educated in a Christian school, and am the product of a Christian school. These schools were built and are currently financed by millions of dollars that could have gone to the poor, but Christianity has been interested in investing education since the founding of Oxford and Cambridge, and have a lasting heritage on this side of the pond since the founding of our Ivy League.
Who can judge such things? In my experience, people who give extravegantly to church building projects give comparable amounts to the poor.
cardero
Citizen Mod
angellous_evangellous said:
Is there a chance we could do more? If the proceeds of a religious donation can do that for you, do you think that the selling of a $60,000,000 cathedral could offer more opportunities not only to other Christians but to other unfortunate individuals that are in need of support as well?
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
cardero said:
Honestly, I don't know of any $60mil cathedrals. The largest ones I know of are in the $20mil range, and most of the value is estimated only due to the land itself and not the building. These are few and far between IMO, and the one denomenation that I know of with extravagant buildings are the Mormons, but I respect and admire their architecture.
IMO, our very best art, craftsmanship, and architecture should be in our churches, not only in private homes, businesses, universities or museusms. If we don't have artists and craftsmen who can donate their abilities, we should compensate them for their work instead of exploiting them.