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It Is Good For A Man Not To Have Sexual Relations With A Woman.
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Me too... We are lucky dogs.Can't argue that point.I married one of like mind!
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I think the trick is not to read more into this then it says
"It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman".
It doesn't say [though same words mixed differently]:
"It is not good for a man to have sexual relations with a woman".
[Masters like to play our mind. Once my guru told 1 woman "let all black people in". To the other He said "Let all white people in". They were unaware He told different to both. They start fighting, pulling each others hair. Then guru asked "Problem ladies?". Both started arguing "You said....". Aha guru said "If both just did what I said, all would have come in".]
Same in Bible many times: If Jesus tells someone, it doesn't necessary mean for all. If you tell your wife "I love you", she won't be too happy if you tell other women the same. My experience is that master tends to be very personal. Sometimes global teaching, but sometimes not. And that's nice, keeps us at our toes. The Bible has nice quotes for anyone. Just pick the one you like [knowing more than you can practice only feeds guilt; I've been there big time].
So I feel this is a perfectly normal declaration made here, by a very wise man..
Thanks about the avatar, It has meaning to me do to my Grand Father but I like the quote as well.
1)My answer has nothing to do with the bible and is based solely on experience and understanding of the human psych. But in general things in the Bible generally relate to human understanding at the time and with this understanding(at least mine) today is no different. I realize not everybody will feel the same way but never does everyone feel the same way.
2)I believe we are genetically programmed towards sex but we have a brain which allows us to refrain from sex and there are advantages to refraining from sex otherwise it wouldn't be possible.
Wow, I'm convinced.
When you have already written everything in granite... why try?Wow, I'm convinced.
No, I'm not likely to be convinced otherwise on this subject because I'm going by historical evidence for what early Christians believed and how they lived, not what fundie evangelicals want to read into scattered verses. So unless you have historical sources, I'm not interested.When you have already written everything in granite... why try?
Skwim
Veteran Member
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It depends on what you define as "early". Do you have any documentation for the first 200 years?
Virginity... yes. Rarely had sex? How do you determine that? Is there even a source for docomentation?
Dark ages where, monasticism and where the Word of God was only for the few... yes, because no one could say no. But "early church" continued having babies and getting married.
Actually "family values" come from scripture. "Spewed" sound like there is something personal driving your position
Actually, marriage and having kids was quite normal. Do you have documentation?
So, in reality, all i see above is personal viewpoints and unsubtantiated positions.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
God said be fruitful and multiply...when did that change?
Christian views on marriage - Wikipedia
Christianity’s rocky relationship with sex
Sexual Renunciation and Early Christian Masculinity
Verso
Anyway, I could go on. But if you bother to study the writings of the Church Fathers and even the NT on the subject, you would see that virginity and celibacy is clearly prized over marriage. Marriage is allowed for procreative purposes and as a stopgap against fornication, but is clearly seen as inferior to an asexual lifestyle. Many Christians decided to have chaste or celibate marriages. I recall there were also a number of purity rules for married Christians where they weren't allowed to have sex at various times such as during Lent, Sundays, as penance (penances could take years in the early days of Christianity), etc. which added up to them effectively rarely being allowed to have sex.
Jesus did not teach "family values" as right-wing Christians put forth. He did not care much about familial obligations or blood ties. He encouraged his disciples to leave their familes and to follow him (Matthew 8:22; Mark 10:28-30; Matthew 10:37). Family was viewed as spiritual and not by blood ties (your fellow believers were your brothers and sisters and his female followers were his "mothers" instead of Mary) (Matthew 12:48). In the Kingdom of God there is no marriage, as we are like the angels (Matthew 22:30). Of course, St. Paul counseled that it is better not to marry (1 Corinthians 7) and so on.
So this modern Christian idolatry of marriage is quite strange.
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stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Oh, I didn't explain clearly enough:
1): It's good for a man not to have sex = no sex is good, that one is obvious
BUT this line doesn't imply that having sex is bad (of course you can read it that way; you are free to do so)
Like the following:
If wife tells you "it's good to have sex once a year"
I think you better check out and ask her "Darling and how about once a month"
She might answers: "Finally, but I was hoping you were begging for once a week"
Don't assume something, especially when it is not explicitly written down. That I have learned.
Maybe it's a subtle thing. But I can't make it any clearer I think.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I agree with your quote in total.
And for me it's not so strange this last line. You need a lot of self control to "not have sex". I believe that's not for so many people possible. Especially nowadays with all the sex images, and like you perfectly phrased "idolatry" not only of marriage but even sex, divorce, polygamy, animal sex even. I just like to tell how I see it now. Not judgemental.
And it's very simple "Tell me your company, I tell you who you are" is a saying that has some truth in it, I believe. So seeing all the images (even unasked; even in churches girls dress more sexy) is naturally that most people can't control it. And remembering Roman Empire pictures of sex parties I guess it has been like this quite a long time.
And if you think all day about sex, maybe better to just do it. And that's why I understand that in the Bible it is adviced (for the majority) to just marry (and make many babies
). suppose the Bible would say "Sex is oke, 1 child is enough of sex". Then I think being married is 10 times harder then being celibate.
I see our disconnect. I am relating to the "EARLY" church 1 - 350 years and you are relating to the church that came after where the realities were changed and ended up in the Dark Ages where the ignorance of the Word abounded.
Some of your examples are obviously one sided but it is noted that when monasteries began, the purpose of God began to wain.
I disagree since this doesn't have to do with "family" per se. It has to do with purpose. In the Civil war, there were brothers against brothers but it didn't have to do with what family was all about.
1 Tim 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; FAMILY
1 Tim 3: 11 Deacons Even so must their wives be grave, FAMILY
Eph 6:
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honourthy father and mother;* (which is the first commandment with promise
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
FAMILY
1 Cor 7:
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
MARRIAGE/FAMILY
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple,Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
FAMILY / ADOPTED
EPH 5:
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
FAMILY...
and countless more
if all you do is look at scripture that support your position at the expense of those you don't, your viewpoint will be in error. You have to look into context so that all scriptures work together.
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You believe what you want. I don't expect to change your mind. You say I'm biased and ignoring verses, but so are you. You also ignored my links. You seem to have a problem with the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, too, even though they were the original Church when they were united. You go ahead and ignore the Church Fathers.I see our disconnect. I am relating to the "EARLY" church 1 - 350 years and you are relating to the church that came after where the realities were changed and ended up in the Dark Ages where the ignorance of the Word abounded.
Some of your examples are obviously one sided but it is noted that when monasteries began, the purpose of God began to wain.
I disagree since this doesn't have to do with "family" per se. It has to do with purpose. In the Civil war, there were brothers against brothers but it didn't have to do with what family was all about.
1 Tim 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; FAMILY
1 Tim 3: 11 Deacons Even so must their wives be grave, FAMILY
Eph 6:
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honourthy father and mother;* (which is the first commandment with promise
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
FAMILY
1 Cor 7:
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
MARRIAGE/FAMILY
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple,Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
FAMILY / ADOPTED
EPH 5:
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
FAMILY...
and countless more
if all you do is look at scripture that support your position at the expense of those you don't, your viewpoint will be in error. You have to look into context so that all scriptures work together.
Yes.. it does seem like you are going to believe what you want to believe. I'm going by scripture and apparently that isn't what you want to hear.
I know scripture. I also know there's such a thing as context and history, which you seem not to realize exists. "Sola scriptura", right?
I'm waiting for you to apply what is scripture and its historicity (Acts and the Epistles) vs what man did after 300 years of existence--where opinions (Later Fathers in the faith) vs reality of what wasI know scripture. I also know there's such a thing as context and history, which you seem not to realize exists. "Sola scriptura", right?
I'm waiting for you to present historical evidence of your own. I know I will be waiting forever so I won't hold my breath.
I quoted them... right in scripture. Those are historical so you can breathe now