• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Will any man be eternally tormented or annihilated in the end?

Truth101

Member
Here I have a quote from a book written over 100 years ago from Thomas allin called Christ triumphant. Please read it and make your comments. It may take two posts to post it. It is a must read if you are one who believes Christ can still be triumphent even in the face of eternal torment theology.


Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin​


The following is a brief excerpt from the book, "Christ Triumphant", by Thomas Allin, pages 220-224 and 312-316.
We now turn to an examination of the very many passages in the New Testament that clearly declare, or imply, the salvation of all men -- how numerous these are we shall see. The time has fully come for appealing with all boldness on behalf of the larger hope, alike to the letter and the spirit of the New Testament. One thing only I ask, which common fairness and honesty require, that our Lord and His Evangelists and Apostles may be understood to mean what they say. Thus, we shall look at a FEW instances out of MANY. When they speak of all men, I assume them to mean ALL men, and not some men. When they speak of all things, I assume them to mean ALL things. When they speak of life and salvation as given to the world, I assume them to mean GIVEN, and not merely offered. When they speak of the destruction of death, of the devil, and of the works of the devil, I assume them to mean that these shall be DESTROYED and not preserved for ever in hell. When they tell us that the whole of Creation suffers but that it shall be delivered, I assume that they mean an ACTUAL deliverance of all created things. When they tell us that Redemption is wider, broader, and stronger than the Fall, I assume that they mean to tell us at least this, that ALL the evil caused by the Fall shall be swept away. When they describe Christ's empire as extending over all things and all creatures, and tell us that every tongue must join in homage to Him, I assume them to mean what these words convey in their ordinary sense. If I did not, should I not be making God a liar???
What does the traditional creed require? It practically requires a MUTILATED BIBLE. More than this, it bids us to expunge precisely that which is noblest and divinest in Holy Scripture. I have no desire to ignore "the Terrors of the Lord" -- (see next chapter). They deserve and shall have full recognition. I do insist, however, that those teachers misread Holy Scripture who forgets that its essential purpose is to unfold His name, Who is "our Father", and to proclaim His full victory in the extinction of all evil, and not in its perpetuation in hell. I protest against teaching that "All" means in scriptural phrase absolutely "All" when some evil is foretold, but that "All" means only "some" when spoken of final salvation. So rooted is this most inequitable mode of interpretation, that it has become involuntary. The restitution of all things means, we are told, that only some beings are to be restored, while some are tortured for ever, or annihilated. That God shall be finally "All in All" means that He will shut up many for ever in endless evil, to blaspheme and hate Him eternally, and only save the rest. That His tender mercies are over all His works means, in the ordinary creed, that His tender mercies expire at the gates of hell. Solemn as is the question, there is something almost ludicrous, when we find those who so teach, then turning around to charge us with evading the words of Scripture.
I submit that the entire history of exegesis contains no stranger fact than this persistent ignoring of so large a part of the New Testament. To bring this out clearly, I append the following chain of passages from a long series. They, clearly and closely linked, claim for Christ a saving empire coextensive with the race, or (perhaps) rather with the whole universe. This connection is clearly marked, for each passage suggests or contains the same central idea, and thus forms a link in a continuous chain. This chain begins at creation, when all things were created by Christ, who therefore, as S. PAUL implies, reconciles (re-creates) all things unto God -- Col. 1:16-20. Hence, His work is the restitution of all things -- Acts 3:21. He is Heir of all things -- Heb. 1:2. In him all nations are to be blessed -- Gal. 3:8. The Father has given Him authority over all flesh, to give to whatsoever was given to Him eternal life -- S. John 17:2 (see original). So all flesh shall see the salvation of God -- S. Luke 3:6. For God, Whose counsel is immutable -- Heb. 6:17,18, Whose attitude towards His enemies is love unchanging -- S. Luke 6:27-35, will have all men to be saved -- 1 Tim. 2:4, and all to come to repentance -- 2 Pet. 3:9. He has shut all up unto unbelief, so that He may show mercy upon all -- Rom. 11:32. For (out) of Him, as Source, and unto (or into) Him, as End, are all things whatsoever -- Rom. 11:36. He has, therefore, put all things in subjection under Christ's feet -- Eph. 1:22. So we are assured that God will gather into one all things in Christ -- Eph. 1:10. His grace comes upon all men unto justification of life -- Rom. 5:18. So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands -- S.Jno. 13:3, promises by His Cross to draw all men unto Himself -- S. John. 12:32. For having, as stated, received all things from the Father -- S.Jno. 3:35, all that was given comes to Him, and He loses none -- S. John. 6:37-39, but if any stray, goes after that which is lost till He finds it -- S. Luke 15:4, and so makes all things new -- Rev. 21:5.
Thus, He comes so that the world through Him may be saved -- S. John. 3:17. His grace brings salvation to all men -- Tit. 2:11. He takes away the sin of the world -- S. John. 1:29. He gives His flesh for its life -- S. John. 6:51.
Because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (are irrevocable) -- Rom. 11:29, He gives life to the world -- S. John. 6:33. He is the Light of the world -- S. John. 8:12. He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world -- 1 John. 2:2. He is the Savior of all men -- 1 Tim. 4:10. He destroys the works of the devil, not some of them only -- 1 Jno. 3:8, and the devil himself -- Heb. 2:14. He abolishes death -- 2 Tim. 1:10. He is manifested to put away sin -- Heb. 9:26, and thus subdues all things unto Himself -- Phil 3:21 (the context clearly shows this subjugation to be conformity to Himself). He does not forget the dead, but takes the gospel to Hades -- 1 Pet. 3:19, of which He holds the keys -- Rev. 1:18. He is the same (Savior) for ever -- Heb. 13:8. Thus, even the dead are evangelized -- 1Pet. 4:6, and death and Hades destroyed -- Rev 20:14. All are therefore made alive in Him -- 1Cor. 15:22. Christ finishes, completes His work -- S. John. 17:4, restores all things -- Acts 3:21, and there is no more curse -- Rev. 22:2,3. Every knee of things in heaven and earth, and under the earth, bends to Him -- Phil. 2:10. The creation is delivered from the bondage of corruption -- Rom. 8:21, and every creature joins in the song of praise -- Rev. 5:13. So comes the END, when He delivers up the Kingdom to God, Who is then ALL IN ALL -- 1Cor. 15:24-28.
These passages are, I repeat, not taken at random and piled up any way. They are the expression of that Purpose that runs though the Bible. It is a Purpose first stated in man's creation in God's image; a Purpose to be traced in the Law, the Psalms and Prophets; and most clearly in the New Testament. From it we learn that (I.) Christ came, claiming as His own the entire human race, to the end that He might save and restore the WHOLE, and not any fraction of it, however large. (II.) He came with full power "over all flesh", having received power in heaven and on earth -- over all hearts, all evil, all wills. (III.) He lived and died, and rose again, victorious in the fullest sense, "having FINISHED His work," as He expressly claims.
Thus, to deny the absolute universality of Christ's redeeming sway, as destined to embrace ALL SOULS AND ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER, seems no less than to withdraw from the New Testament an essential and vital part of its teaching. For here we are not dealing with some few passages, in which it might be possible to say that "ALL" was used in a lax sense. We have a connected series in which link follows link, a series in which the actual, not the potential, universality of Christ's kingdom is the center and essential thought. Let us now consider a little more in detail, the passages themselves, taking them in their natural and fair meaning, not obscured by traditional gloss. Continued on next post....
 

Truth101

Member
"FOR THE SON OF MAN IS COME TO SAVE THAT WHICH WAS LOST."
S. Matt 18:11​
.​
Here the question is simply this, will Jesus Christ do what He has come to do, or will He fail -- as the traditional creed, in spite of all denials, indubitably teaches?? Will He save that which was lost and not some of the lost merely, a totally different thing?? How can "that which was lost" be saved, if any soul be finally lost??
Lastly, a chapter has been devoted to pointing out how full the New Testament is of passages too often explained away, and yet teaching, or implying, the final salvation of all. So important is this evidence, that I here append a brief summary. We have seen how to Christ is assigned a kingdom absolutely without bound or limit, how all flesh shall see the salvation He gives. You have read how the Good Shepherd seeks on, till each sheep He has lost is found, and how the Son of Man came to seek and to save, not some of the lost, but simply "that which was lost". This might also be rendered, "the destroyed", so little does "destruction" involve final loss. His mission is exactly described as having for its object the salvation of the world, and He is said to take away the sin of the whole world. Do these terms represent a partial salvation? Are they honestly consistent with it? Again, it is said all things have been given to the Son, and that all that is so given shall come to Him. He is repeatedly described as the "Savior of the world", which yet He does not save on the popular view. He is called the "Light the world". He is said not to offer, but to give life to the world, a totally different thing. He says (no words can be more absolute), speaking of His Cross, that He will draw all men unto Himself. He adds, that He came not to judge, but to save the World. Can you, on any fair theory of the meaning of human language, reconcile all this with the horrors of endless evil? If the sin of the whole world be taken away, how shall there be a hell for its endless punishment. If all things without exception (the original is the widest possible) are given to Christ, and all so given to Him shall come to Him, can you reconcile this with unending misery? Let us go on, however. We find language employed by the Evangelists quite as decisive against the popular creed as that just quoted. When, for instance, we read in S. John how God's Son was manifested for the very purpose of destroying the works of the Devil, we are forced to inquire if that is consistent by any possibility with preserving these works in hell for ever? Is there no significance in Christ's telling us that He is "alive unto the ages", and has the keys of hell and death? Then again, what do the promises to make all things new, and that there shall be no more curse or pain mean? If these be not promises of universal restoration, what are they? Lastly, ponder over the vision of the Apocalypse, where every creature in heaven, on earth, and under the earth (the dead), joins in the song of praise to God. Can you truly say that anything less than a universal salvation can satisfy the plain sense of these words!!
To (virtually) evade such words is bad enough, but having done so, to charge universalists with fearing to appeal to Scripture is surely not fair. Take next, a very large body of fresh passages teaching the larger hope, from the Epistles of S. Paul, S. Peter, and Hebrews. S. Paul, especially, is full of glowing anticipation of the assured triumph of Christ's kingdom over all evil. Thus ABRAHAM is to receive the world and no less as His portion, i.e., in the elect, all are to be saved. Whatever sin has done to injure man is to be more than repaired by the grace of Christ. Is it, however, possible to undo all that sin has done, if a single soul (1.) be left in endless evil? Would not S. Paul be speaking untruly in such a case? Surely a fair answer is due to this inquiry (even though a fair answer seems to lead to universalism). Further, the Apostle says that the whole creation shall be delivered into the glorious liberty of God's children. Again, all Israel is to be saved (and being the firstfruits, their salvation involves that of the entire world). The Apostle affirms that God's gifts and calling are without repentance (irrevocable). This is very significant, for what is the popular creed but an assertion that God's gifts can be set at naught finally. Further, what S. Paul asserts is echoed in the Epistle to the Hebrews, which assures us of the immutability of God's counsel. Again, if God has shut up all in unbelief, it is, as S. Paul says, that He may have mercy upon all. Does "all" mean "some" in the latter clause, and not in the former??
Again, he assures us that if the first ADAM brought death universally, then the last ADAM brings universal life, and that if sin abounds, much more shall grace abound. However, in saying that the last ADAM has failed in myriads of cases to undo the evil caused by the Fall, you are giving these words a flat contradiction. Then, as to Christ's empire, we are told that to Him every knee shall bow, i.e., "All creation, all things, whatsoever and wheresoever may be." -- (LIGHTFOOT on Phil. 2:10) and every tongue confess -- the original term means thanksgiving, rather, is the very term used of our Lord's giving His Father thanks -- S.Matt 11:25. Finally, we are told that one day -- at the End -- God shall be All in All. It is the Father's good pleasure to sum up all things in Christ, to reconcile all things unto Himself through Christ. Are we indeed to believe that anything can be reconciled to God by being consigned to hopeless evil? For it is a virtual, if unconscious, evasion to say that all things are reconciled to God, if, after countless generations have sent their contingents to the devil, some one generation and those succeeding it, shall be fully saved. Further, the Apostle assures us that the living God is the Savior of all, that Jesus Christ has abolished death, and that the grace of God brings salvation to all men. Are these statements fairly consistent with a partial salvation? Why also, do our opponents never allude to the noble and most inspiring hope, suggested by such a passage as Rom. 11:36?
S. Peter, too, speaks to the same effect. He tells of Christ's preaching the Gospel to the dead, who had been disobedient and died -- a story whose significance is the greatest possible, as indicating how behind the veil Christ works on to heal and to save even those who died in sin. He adds, that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Is God's deliberate counsel -- such is the original word -- to come to nothing? Then, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, we have this same remarkable testimony, e.g., the assertion that all things are to be put under Christ. It is stated that His object in dying was to destroy the devil -- that once, at the conclusion of the ages, He has appeared to put away, i.e., abolish sin by His sacrifice of Himself. Can anyone explain how the abolition of sin can be consistent with maintaining evil in hell for ever? Thus, the traditional creed seems to stand hopelessly opposed to the teaching of Scripture. Does it not almost deny God Himself, because if we are to believe in God at all, there is no room for a defeated God. Therefore, either God really wills to save all men, and if so, He will assuredly accomplish this, or He does not so will. The first proposition involves the larger hope -- the second is mere Calvinism. I can see no rational alternative.
Such is a brief outline of the teaching of the New Testament, for I have not quoted all its promises of universal salvation. It is no case of building upon Eastern metaphors, of dogma resting upon mistranslations or misconceptions of the original, as in the case of the traditional creed. It is evidence, clear and unambiguous, and repeated. We have without doubt line upon line, promise upon promise, assertions reiterated, accumulated, yet amid all their variety, closely linked and pointing to one central thought. This thought is none less than the completeness of the triumph of Jesus Christ!! It includes the boundless nature of His saving empire over all, to the assurance of a victory won by His Incarnation, His death, and His Resurrection over all the powers of evil.
"The Father willed through Christ to reconcile the universe once more unto Himself, and so to restore all things whatsoever and wheresoever they be." -- LIGHTFOOT on Col. 1:19,20.

(1.) "If but one soul were to remain in the power of the devil, death, or hell, to all endless eternity, then the devil, death, and hell would have something to boast of against God. Thus death would not be entirely swallowed up in victory, but always keep something of his sting, and hell would ever more be able to make a scorn of those who would say, 'O hell, where is, your victory?'"- The Everlasting Gospel -- Paul Seigvolck, 1753.
It is my hope and prayer that many of you will see the truth of the gospil and turn from the doctrine of man and see the light of our Lord throughout the pages of scripture. The difference between the 2 views expressed between Orthodox Christianity and the universal redemption of all mankind in Christ is a relative carnal understanding and the absolute declaration of God in spirit. This is but a small part of this book and offers only a fraction of spiritual understanding given us in the scriptures.
God Bless, Dave
 
Top