A rare occurence from God

Unveiled Artist · Mar 27, 2018

kjw47 said:
I told you--The one God sent forth-The Messiah, Gods son, My king.
A true follower learns and apply' every utterance from God as Jesus taught we must do. His teachers make sure that is accomplished. My teachers do that. It takes years and one still learns new points.

Why follow a human only for his perfection?

savagewind · Mar 27, 2018

kjw47 said:
I know exactly what you mean. Yes some think they are doing Gods will by rejecting his teachers and followers.

I think you have it backward. YOU are rejecting us!

I think In Gods view those who reject those things are standing in opposition.

Those things? What things do you think I am rejecting?

Do you go to the memorial?

I might be obeying the wisdom to refrain from walking with foolish ones when I don't go.

Jesus asked for this specifically.

It is symbolic and I think I share the Lord's supper with him. Often, actually.

Its all Gods view on matters in the end.( Matt 7:21)

Very true!

Most will not like it.

I have heard that some JWs do not like this life and are only staying with it because God has promised them something better.

People seem to think God is strict. He must be in a satan ruled system.

Really? What about what Jesus actually says is wise? Hmm? John 8:32 I do not wonder why your "Jesus teachers" do not teach more of it.

They complain about disfellowshipping of others. But in The OT certain sins a family member would be stoned to death

They should really be grateful God has changed that. Which would one choose for their family member? In one case in the OT God told the Israelites no spoils of war on that trip--a man took some silver and hid it under his tent, his wife knew. They were called before the leaders and exposed by God--Death for both--The man for standing in opposition to Gods will and the woman for not turning him in to the elders. God isn't playing around. How many could turn a family member in?

It isn't written why the rest of the family was also killed. Does it? No, I think that translating that the rest were also killed is a bad translation. It is not clear and to teach something different is against Truth. I'm sorry. It is.

Now let's talk about "God changed" it. God didn't change it. God allows for governments to exist and THEY changed it. Please. OK.

djhwoodwerks · Mar 27, 2018

kjw47 said:
Do you go to the memorial? Jesus asked for this specifically.

Jesus said, "take eat, and drink, DO THIS in remembrance of Me". Do you kjw47 take and eat and drink, or do you just pass it on and reject the body and blood of Jesus? Please show us the scripture where Jesus said to only eat if you are one of the "anointed brothers".

74x12 · Mar 27, 2018

kjw47 said:
Do you live on earth? Jesus appointed those teachers--means it is Gods will they share truths about him. Jesus shares through his teachers-Matt 24:45

Yet clouds and darkness are round about Him. righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. A fire goes before him, and burns up his enemies round about. (See Psalm 97)

Teachers can point you to Jesus but only Jesus can show you who the Father is. Jesus shows the disciples the Father:

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (John 14:9)

The Son is the Father manifest for us

Because
1. the Father is invisible. (1 Tim. 1:17)
2. the Father is hiding His glory in clouds and darkness. (Psalm 97)
3. A fire goes before Him and would destroy any flesh who looked on Him. (Psalm 97)

There are not two gods for the people of God. A Greater God and a lesser (little g) "god" as some erroneously believe about John 1:1. There cannot be two gods for the people of God. (1 Cor. 8:6) So anyone who says there is an Upper Case God and a lower case god are wrong. There is ONE God(Theos in Greek) and ONE Lord(Kuros in Greek) according to 1 Corinthians 8:6. Now we know that GOD is called Lord (Matthew 4:10) and we know that Jesus is called God (John 1:1) So then these Two are One and the same. Otherwise the scripture contradicts itself. This is a mystery how God was manifest in human form. This is why it takes Jesus to show you who the Father is because you can't see otherwise.

savagewind · Mar 27, 2018

The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses seems to be saying that when someone leaves them the one leaving is rejecting them and Jehovah but that has to be corrected. OK? It is they who are rejecting us. That is 100% fact. It just is.

I think I might love being right. What do you think? I am wondering what the governing body members love? My first guess is power. I am as certain as I can possibly be that it is not righteousness that they love. I do.

Unveiled Artist · Mar 27, 2018

74x12 said:
Yet clouds and darkness are round about Him. righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. A fire goes before him, and burns up his enemies round about. (See Psalm 97)

Teachers can point you to Jesus but only Jesus can show you who the Father is. Jesus shows the disciples the Father:

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (John 14:9)

The Son is the Father manifest for us

Because
1. the Father is invisible. (1 Tim. 1:17)
2. the Father is hiding His glory in clouds and darkness. (Psalm 97)
3. A fire goes before Him and would destroy any flesh who looked on Him. (Psalm 97)

There are not two gods for the people of God. A Greater God and a lesser (little g) "god" as some erroneously believe about John 1:1. There cannot be two gods for the people of God. (1 Cor. 8:6) So anyone who says there is an Upper Case God and a lower case god are wrong. There is ONE God(Theos in Greek) and ONE Lord(Kuros in Greek) according to 1 Corinthians 8:6. Now we know that GOD is called Lord (Matthew 4:10) and we know that Jesus is called God (John 1:1) So then these Two are One and the same. Otherwise the scripture contradicts itself. This is a mystery how God was manifest in human form. This is why it takes Jesus to show you who the Father is because you can't see otherwise.

Lord isnt gods title. Its a person of authority. So, both jesus and god are "both" named lord not because they are each other but because they are authority to christian salvation: father--Truth. Son the represention of that truth.

In other words, the Father's Words and Christ are one and the same (word made flesh). Since the Father is not his dictations, he cannot be christ and christ cannot be god. The union they both share and christ spirit is what builds the trinity. Once you say jesus is god by calling him lord, master, and messiah it ignores the context of the first two and the last Messiaha are usually human not gods.

I understand why trinitarians say jesus is god. However, I think thats a poor expression of jesus's divinity. Unless jesus is the creator, which by itself in all other abrahamic religions is propostreous, a trinitarian would more correctly say that jesus's relationship to the father is his "shared" identity, that which being the creator's laws (of Moses) not of jesus, nor from jesus, nor as jesus, but through jesus.

Language barriers.

74x12 · Mar 27, 2018

Carlita said:
Lord isnt gods title. Its a person of authority. So, both jesus and god are "both" named lord not because they are each other but because they are authority to christian salvation: father--Truth. Son the represention of that truth.

You missed my whole point. According to 1 Cor. 8:6 there is only one God the Father and one Lord: Jesus. Jehovah's Witnesses have TWO gods. The God and the (lowercase) god logos. Isn't that contradictory of the scriptures? And furthermore they have TWO lords. The "Lord God" and the "lord(lower case again) Jesus". So, why do they contradict the faithful doctrine in the Bible? (Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 8:6)

Carlita said:
In other words, the Father's Words and Christ are one and the same (word made flesh). Since the Father is not his dictations, he cannot be christ and christ cannot be god. The union they both share and christ spirit is what builds the trinity. Once you say jesus is god by calling him lord, master, and messiah it ignores the context of the first two and the last Messiaha are usually human not gods.

I'm not a trinitarian though. I believe in one God; the Father who is manifest in the Son of God.

Trinitarians on the other hand believe in "three co-equal persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the holy Spirit". That is not what I believe.

The Word was made flesh but what about His Spirit within His human body? This was the holy Spirit indwelling human flesh.

Carlita said:
I understand why trinitarians say jesus is god. However, I think thats a poor expression of jesus's divinity. Unless jesus is the creator, which by itself in all other abrahamic religions is propostreous, a trinitarian would more correctly say that jesus's relationship to the father is his "shared" identity, that which being the creator's laws (of Moses) not of jesus, nor from jesus, nor as jesus, but through jesus.

You're talking about the hypostasis. I'm talking about Jesus as a person rather than His human or Divine natures. Yes He is fully human and fully God. I understand all that.

What I'm talking about is revelations. So you begin by understanding Jesus is a prophet. (John 9:17) Then the Son of God. (John 9:35-38) And then maybe God (John 20:28) But finally if Jesus shows the Father's identity to you then you'll see He is the Father manifest. (Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22, John 14:8-9) Just as He showed His disciples this mystery when they asked Him "Lord, show us the Father and it suffices us."

How many Christians have asked Jesus in prayer to show who the Father is?

Unveiled Artist · Mar 27, 2018

I didnt know JW has two gods. Thats the same as they tell me christiondom is polytheist since they believe the trinity.

74x12 said:
How many Christians have asked Jesus in prayer to show who the Father is?

I did, daily. You go to the son to know god. I took that quite literal. I cant assume if others saw christ as I did. Everyones relationship with god is between that person and god.

Many do. Many dont. I dont know how else to answer. I dont know all christians. Catholicism teaches that you come to communion in/through jesus in order to be with his father. I never understood evangelist thought. Too defensive to have a good conversation with without my needing to agree to discuss something.

whirlingmerc · Mar 27, 2018

kjw47 said:
At Jesus baptism, God spoke from heaven( very rare) and said--This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM.

1)Matt 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these other things will be added. ( sustenance, covering, spirituality)Matt 6)-- The Father would provide those things.
2)Matt 5:5-- Happy are the meek for they will inherit the EARTH. ( Psalm 37:9-11,29)-- this has to be to the great multitude.
3)The Lords prayer--Hallowed be thy(Father) name ( YHWH(Jehovah)
4) Jesus teaches he has a God-his Father- John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- so does Paul- 2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 15:24-28, 1Cor8:6--Peter- 1Peter1:3--John at Rev 1:6--- One of the most taught teachings in the nt--Jesus has a God, his Father.
5) Jesus clearly teaches--at John 17: 1-6,26-- The one who sent him=Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD--Verse 6= YHWH(Jehovah) 26= YHWH(Jehovah)
6) Making John 4:22-24 an everyday accomplishment in a true followers life.

Do you believe Jesus?

There were only about 3 times the Father spoke in a physically audible way in the gospels
1) this is my belowed son listen to him (baptism)
2) this is my son listen to him (mt of transfiguration)
3) I have glorified your name and will do it again (end of Gospel of John, passion week)

whirlingmerc · Mar 27, 2018

74x12 said:
You missed my whole point. According to 1 Cor. 8:6 there is only one God the Father and one Lord: Jesus. Jehovah's Witnesses have TWO gods. The God and the (lowercase) god logos. Isn't that contradictory of the scriptures? And furthermore they have TWO lords. The "Lord God" and the "lord(lower case again) Jesus". So, why do they contradict the faithful doctrine in the Bible? (Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 8:6)

I'm not a trinitarian though. I believe in one God; the Father who is manifest in the Son of God.

Trinitarians on the other hand believe in "three co-equal persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the holy Spirit". That is not what I believe.

The Word was made flesh but what about His Spirit within His human body? This was the holy Spirit indwelling human flesh.

You're talking about the hypostasis. I'm talking about Jesus as a person rather than His human or Divine natures. Yes He is fully human and fully God. I understand all that.

What I'm talking about is revelations. So you begin by understanding Jesus is a prophet. (John 9:17) Then the Son of God. (John 9:35-38) And then maybe God (John 20:28) But finally if Jesus shows the Father's identity to you then you'll see He is the Father manifest. (Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22, John 14:8-9) Just as He showed His disciples this mystery when they asked Him "Lord, show us the Father and it suffices us."

How many Christians have asked Jesus in prayer to show who the Father is?

Jesus is the image of the Father in nature and character so knowing one is knowing the other in a sense

kjw47 · Mar 28, 2018

Carlita said:
Why follow a human only for his perfection?

Jesus laid his life down in a horrible way. The King of kings.

Unveiled Artist · Mar 28, 2018

kjw47 said:
Jesus laid his life down in a horrible way. The King of kings.

Jesus is a human.

He is human like you and I.

If not (if he is perfect) he is align with god.

That is the trinity.

What makes the human jesus not god and perfect at the same time?

kjw47 · Mar 28, 2018

savagewind said:
I think you have it backward. YOU are rejecting us!

Those things? What things do you think I am rejecting?

I might be obeying the wisdom to refrain from walking with foolish ones when I don't go.

It is symbolic and I think I share the Lord's supper with him. Often, actually.
Very true!
I have heard that some JWs do not like this life and are only staying with it because God has promised them something better.

Really? What about what Jesus actually says is wise? Hmm? John 8:32 I do not wonder why your "Jesus teachers" do not teach more of it.

It isn't written why the rest of the family was also killed. Does it? No, I think that translating that the rest were also killed is a bad translation. It is not clear and to teach something different is against Truth. I'm sorry. It is.

Now let's talk about "God changed" it. God didn't change it. God allows for governments to exist and THEY changed it. Please. OK.

God changed the stoning laws when he sent his son with a new covenant-LOVE. Most likely in 99% of all the cases it is the disfellowshipped ones fault--no one elses.
The NT teaches--do not even eat a meal with one who was called( brother or sister) who is unrepentant. It includes family members--Jesus taught ones family members would be their enemies.( spiritually)

kjw47 · Mar 28, 2018

djhwoodwerks said:
Jesus said, "take eat, and drink, DO THIS in remembrance of Me". Do you kjw47 take and eat and drink, or do you just pass it on and reject the body and blood of Jesus? Please show us the scripture where Jesus said to only eat if you are one of the "anointed brothers".

Only the anointed were present at the last supper. Part of the little flock.( Luke 12:32)

kjw47 · Mar 28, 2018

74x12 said:
Yet clouds and darkness are round about Him. righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. A fire goes before him, and burns up his enemies round about. (See Psalm 97)

Teachers can point you to Jesus but only Jesus can show you who the Father is. Jesus shows the disciples the Father:

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (John 14:9)

The Son is the Father manifest for us

Because
1. the Father is invisible. (1 Tim. 1:17)
2. the Father is hiding His glory in clouds and darkness. (Psalm 97)
3. A fire goes before Him and would destroy any flesh who looked on Him. (Psalm 97)

There are not two gods for the people of God. A Greater God and a lesser (little g) "god" as some erroneously believe about John 1:1. There cannot be two gods for the people of God. (1 Cor. 8:6) So anyone who says there is an Upper Case God and a lower case god are wrong. There is ONE God(Theos in Greek) and ONE Lord(Kuros in Greek) according to 1 Corinthians 8:6. Now we know that GOD is called Lord (Matthew 4:10) and we know that Jesus is called God (John 1:1) So then these Two are One and the same. Otherwise the scripture contradicts itself. This is a mystery how God was manifest in human form. This is why it takes Jesus to show you who the Father is because you can't see otherwise.

If it is so easy to see the Father in Jesus, How come the scholars of Jesus day could not see him? Gods own chosen ones rejected him.
Jesus gave a warning to the world that on account of his name( thinking they are standing for it) will do things against the true followers--Why? Because they do not know the one who sent him= Father( John 5:30)
So its not as easy as you think.
Most of the OT is about the true God-YHWH( Jehovah) It was HE who made the name Jesus above other names---like this-Acts 2:22--God did it all through Jesus. Jesus is his image( Coll 1:15) an image is never the real thing.

kjw47 · Mar 28, 2018

whirlingmerc said:
There were only about 3 times the Father spoke in a physically audible way in the gospels
1) this is my belowed son listen to him (baptism)
2) this is my son listen to him (mt of transfiguration)
3) I have glorified your name and will do it again (end of Gospel of John, passion week)

3 is Jesus speaking. 1-2 is YHWH( Jehovah) speaking.
I have glorified your name( YHWH(Jehovah) as well John 17: 1-6,26--Lords prayer hallowed be thy( Father) name-YHWH(Jehovah)

kjw47 · Mar 28, 2018

Carlita said:
Jesus is a human.

He is human like you and I.

If not (if he is perfect) he is align with god.

That is the trinity.

What makes the human jesus not god and perfect at the same time?

No no trinity.. God did it all through Jesus( Acts 2:22) same as he did through Moses. Moses did not part the red sea-YHWH(Jehovah) did.
Jesus gives 100% of the credit to his Father.( John 5:30)

Unveiled Artist · Mar 28, 2018

kjw47 said:
No no trinity.. God did it all through Jesus( Acts 2:22) same as he did through Moses. Moses did not part the red sea-YHWH(Jehovah) did.
Jesus gives 100% of the credit to his Father.( John 5:30)

Please read:

Jesus is a human. (Flesh and blood)

He is human like you and I. (Just as you and I)

If not (if he is perfect) he is align with god.
(You Kjw said he is perfect)

Perfect is aligned with god: that is the trinity.

Again.

What makes the human jesus not god and perfect at the same time?

djhwoodwerks · Mar 28, 2018

kjw47 said:
Only the anointed were present at the last supper. Part of the little flock.( Luke 12:32)

There were no anointed at the supper, who told you that? If you want to take that stand, only the anointed were told to preach the gospel also.

whirlingmerc · Mar 28, 2018

kjw47 said:
3 is Jesus speaking. 1-2 is YHWH( Jehovah) speaking.
I have glorified your name( YHWH(Jehovah) as well John 17: 1-6,26--Lords prayer hallowed be thy( Father) name-YHWH(Jehovah)

'Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” '
if it was from heaven, in that instance likely it was the Father

A rare occurence from God

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member