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Creation vs evolution

jmt09

jmt09

Member
Skwim said:
I never said god was against nakedness. I said the shame of nakedness is something he saddled A&E with.


I didn't say he passed along the guilt. I said he passed along the punishment; the curse of original sin.


What human guilt do you feel was tainted by Adam's guilt?


Well, whether you find it a charitable way to look at it or not it's how Christianity presents it: we all suffer from the fall of man, stemming from Adam and Eve's rebellion in Eden.

.
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Actually, God didn't saddle Adam and Eve with the shame of nakedness. Adam and Eve were ashamed because they saw that they were naked and they hid from God. God "made them clothing out of skins". This doesn't imply him shaming them. It is a way of accommodating for their sense of shame and nakedness.

What's more is that the early chapters of Genesis are extremely difficult to make sense of when taking them very literally. It is a poem that invokes a lot of different forms of ancient imagery. Though many Christians do take it very literally, I'm not one of those. So, maybe you are mainly criticizing those Christians that would take it like this. What you call Christianity is not as monolithic as you imagine.

When you say 'millions of guiltless people throughout history' who are you referring to?
 
jmt09

jmt09

Member
Faithofchristian said:
When Jesus and his disciples were leaving the temple, his disciples said to Jesus---
--"Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here.

And Jesus answering said to him, See you these great buildings, There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down"

You know this Prophecy has not come to it's fulfillment Yet.
Notice Jesus did say ( there shall not be one stone left upon another)

Over in Israel, you have what the people of Israel calls the wailing wall, which is part of the temple buildings
Jesus did say, ( there shall not be one stone left upon another that not be thrown down)
Have you any idea when that wailing wall which is part of the temple buildings, will come down, bringing the fulfillment of the Prophecy which Jesus given.
In Matthew 24:1,2, Mark 13:1,2.

Note that Jesus did say ( not one stone) but yet there is the wailing wall, which is made of stones.which is still standing.

Therefore, have you any idea when that wall will come down bringing the fulfillment of the Prophecy which Jesus had given to it fulfillment ?
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It seems to me that when Jesus is talking about "great buildings" he is talking about the Temple. Moreover, "not one stone will be left on another" could be thought of as a figure of speech that talks about the total destruction of the Temple and all that it stood for. Figures of speech are very common in Jesus' teaching (and in all teaching). It can help really make a point stand out. I suppose I'm inclined to think Jesus is speaking figuratively here to say that the Temple will be utterly destroyed.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
jmt09 said:
Actually, God didn't saddle Adam and Eve with the shame of nakedness. Adam and Eve were ashamed because they saw that they were naked and they hid from God. God "made them clothing out of skins". This doesn't imply him shaming them. It is a way of accommodating for their sense of shame and nakedness.
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*sigh* I didn't say god shamed them. I said he saddled them (imposed upon them) the shame of nakedness. Their sense of shame for their nakedness. Why would they feel shame for something so inconsequential as being naked if it wasn't thrust upon them?

When you say 'millions of guiltless people throughout history' who are you referring to?
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Everyone. According to Christian theology everyone needs to be saved from the consequences of Original Sin.

And again I ask: What human guilt do you feel was tainted by Adam's guilt?
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
jmt09 said:
Hopefully FoC does. But, I'd understand if they didn't think of me that way. To defend that view of the Bible is basically...well...indefensible. But, furthermore, I don't see any reason to take the Bible (especially Genesis 1-2) to be saying anything literal. It's written as poetry.
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No, it's an ancient creation myth. Trying to wave it off as just poetry is deceitful.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
Faithofchristian said:
Before Adam and Eve took of the tree of good and evil, they had no knowledge of their sexuality or anything being wrong in being naked.
It was Satan that deceived Eve into taking of the tree of good and evil and then Eve gave to Adam and then their eyes were open to their sexuality of them being naked. Then Adam and Eve put together fig leaves to cover themselves.

How long do you suppose Adam and Eve were in the garden walking around naked and not aware of their sexuality, before Satan deceived Eve into taking of the tree of good and evil ?

Why do most Religious folk find nudity and sex scandalous, because they will follow what their Pastor's, Preachers will say, instead of following what Christ Jesus has set down.
Therefore, there is no where in the Bible where God or Christ condemns sex or nudity.
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They felt the need to cover themselves after eating from the tree of knowledge, period. Never said god told them being naked was bad which is obvious if you actually read the bible. After god saw they had made clothes he asked them who told them they were naked. As other members have already pointed out, there are later books in the bible that condemn nudity. So you are simply wrong.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
jmt09 said:
What's more is that the early chapters of Genesis are extremely difficult to make sense of when taking them very literally. It is a poem that invokes a lot of different forms of ancient imagery. Though many Christians do take it very literally, I'm not one of those. So, maybe you are mainly criticizing those Christians that would take it like this. What you call Christianity is not as monolithic as you imagine.
Click to expand...

The easiest way to deal with this is to take nothing from the bible literally. It's all just ancient fables and superstitious myths.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
jmt09 said:
It seems to me that when Jesus is talking about "great buildings" he is talking about the Temple. Moreover, "not one stone will be left on another" could be thought of as a figure of speech that talks about the total destruction of the Temple and all that it stood for. Figures of speech are very common in Jesus' teaching (and in all teaching). It can help really make a point stand out. I suppose I'm inclined to think Jesus is speaking figuratively here to say that the Temple will be utterly destroyed.
Click to expand...

Well seeing the wall is part of the temple building. And it's still standing. That means, that the Prophecy that Jesus gave, has not been fully fulfilled yet.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
jmt09 said:
It seems to me that when Jesus is talking about "great buildings" he is talking about the Temple. Moreover, "not one stone will be left on another" could be thought of as a figure of speech that talks about the total destruction of the Temple and all that it stood for. Figures of speech are very common in Jesus' teaching (and in all teaching). It can help really make a point stand out. I suppose I'm inclined to think Jesus is speaking figuratively here to say that the Temple will be utterly destroyed.
Click to expand...

When you have Jesus saying, that not one stone shall be left upon another of the temple buildings..

Well that's pretty precise, is it not.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
That all depends, on which Christianity your referring to ?
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So you refuse to/or cant answer the primary question. Then you throw in evasion tactics to obfuscate.

I guess the Christianity im talking about is the secret, clandestine, non answering christianity that is your sect.

Oh just a heads up, that's "you're", not "your" (and im dyslexic)
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
JustWondering said:
They felt the need to cover themselves after eating from the tree of knowledge, period. Never said god told them being naked was bad which is obvious if you actually read the bible. After god saw they had made clothes he asked them who told them they were naked. As other members have already pointed out, there are later books in the bible that condemn nudity. So you are simply wrong.
Click to expand...

Well first, you have to understand, That naked has a two folded meaning ?

So if someone is taking a bath naked, and
For say, if someone stands naked before God, What does that mean ?
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
So you refuse to/or cant answer the primary question. Then you throw in evasion tactics to obfuscate.

I guess the Christianity im talking about is the secret, clandestine, non answering christianity that is your sect.

Oh just a heads up, that's "you're", not "your" (and im dyslexic)
Click to expand...

I am not refusing to answer anything, just want you to explain as to which Christianity your referring to. So I know how to answer your question.
So when you figure out, as to which Christianity you want to talk about, let me know
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
I am not refusing to answer anything, just want you to explain as to which Christianity your referring to. So I know how to answer your question.
So when you figure out, as to which Christianity you want to talk about, let me know
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Since when did dodging a question with a question become not refusing???

What has the sect of christianity to do with honesty?
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
Since when did dodging a question with a question become not refusing???

What has the sect of christianity to do with honesty?
Click to expand...

Well when a person brings up about Christianity, just like to know as to which Christianity they are referring to, before making a comment.

That's not dodging a question, that's called, knowing who is being referred to, before making a comment about someone who maybe innocent.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
Well when a person brings up about Christianity, just like to know as to which Christianity they are referring to, before making a comment.
Click to expand...

So you are saying you cant answer a question on christianity unless its about your sort of christianity?

There are are 50,000+ sects of Christianity each interpreting at least 200 different versions of the bible (in english, who knows how many in other languages) as the correct interpretation, and all the others are wrong. So which is your sect and what version of the bible do you favour?


Actually, you were the one making prophecy claims, so correct me if im wrong. im pretty sure most bibles treat prophecies as essentially the same.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Faithofchristian said:
We have been in the last days, since the time of Christ Jesus.
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So we've been in the "last days" for 2000 years? Well, isn't that convenient. Or made up. ;)

But wait, you specifically said that all of these things are going on NOW, as if that were significant in some way:

"All These Peophecy's are taking place now, and people don't even realize it."

So if they've always been going on, what difference does it make if it's specifically happening NOW? It would seem to me that if it's been going on for all this time, the supposed fact that it's happening NOW becomes unimportant and irrelevant. It just makes it the normal way of things. That's some wacky plan your God has - to make it appear that the "last days" are always just around the corner, without actually ever getting there.


You really don't think there were wars rumours of wars, deceivers, sorrow, lusts, deceitfulness of riches, etc. BEFORE Jesus showed up?
 
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