Means, Motives, and Opportunities

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

At times, I feel sad for the Facebook Warriors who fancy themselves as either patriotic militiamen or as members of a resistance movement. Do they really feel that their words, their rants, their online diatribes actually help to secure those goals which they claim to want to attain? Do they ignore the good which can be found in those whom they oppose, and only listen to the heroic music playing in their heads as they "battle against the evil empire"?

What motivates them, I wonder? Do they truly believe that their mud slinging and name calling is somehow making the world a better place in which to live? Does saying "make America great again" (again and again) truly make them great? Or is it merely the last gasp of a dying empire? Does chanting "no justice, no peace" bring about either justice or peace? Or is it just another way of saying "give us what we want or we'll burn the place down"?

Or is it simply the fact that pecking out letters on a keyboard is much easier than volunteering at a local soup kitchen? Is it more ego-rewarding to be applauded by our online comrades for railing against the "evil leftists" or by calling for President Trump's impeachment (or his head on a platter) than it is to help someone living just down the road from us?

I can hear the objections.

"I'm a volunteer at my local fire department," they say, "but I also write letters to the editor in support of the President."

"I help out folks at a local homeless shelter," they say, "but I also compose posts which oppose the President."

And I would say that the first parts of your statements are commendable, but the latter parts only prove that you have time on your hands that is wasted - opportunities which are trashed in favor of receiving "likes" for your latest non-accomplishments.

Forgive me for ranting. I have become sick with what we are becoming. Or have already become.

Nakosis · Mar 22, 2018

taykair said:
At times, I feel sad for the Facebook Warriors who fancy themselves as either patriotic militiamen or as members of a resistance movement. Do they really feel that their words, their rants, their online diatribes actually help to secure those goals which they claim to want to attain? Do they ignore the good which can be found in those whom they oppose, and only listen to the heroic music playing in their heads as they "battle against the evil empire"?

What motivates them, I wonder? Do they truly believe that their mud slinging and name calling is somehow making the world a better place in which to live? Does saying "make America great again" (again and again) truly make them great? Or is it merely the last gasp of a dying empire? Does chanting "no justice, no peace" bring about either justice or peace? Or is it just another way of saying "give us what we want or we'll burn the place down"?

Or is it simply the fact that pecking out letters on a keyboard is much easier than volunteering at a local soup kitchen? Is it more ego-rewarding to be applauded by our online comrades for railing against the "evil leftists" or by calling for President Trump's impeachment (or his head on a platter) than it is to help someone living just down the road from us?

I can hear the objections.

"I'm a volunteer at my local fire department," they say, "but I also write letters to the editor in support of the President."

"I help out folks at a local homeless shelter," they say, "but I also compose posts which oppose the President."

And I would say that the first parts of your statements are commendable, but the latter parts only prove that you have time on your hands that is wasted - opportunities which are trashed in favor of receiving "likes" for your latest non-accomplishments.

Forgive me for ranting. I have become sick with what we are becoming. Or have already become.

Aren't you kind of doing the same here?

I suspect there is some human need to express oneself into the ozone even though the effect of such expression be minimal. Likely attempts to justify an otherwise irrational need.

Quintessence · Mar 22, 2018

The power of story and of words should never, ever be underestimated.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

Nakosis said:
Aren't you kind of dong the same here?

I suspect there is some human need to express oneself into the ozone even though the effect of such expression be minimal. Likely attempts to justify an otherwise irrational need.

It may be hypocritical of me to use that which I am starting to loathe in order to decry it. I am, indeed, part of the "we" that I am sick of.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
The power of story and of words should never, ever be underestimated.

Or be given more value than it deserves.

To do one good thing for another person is of more value than all of the scribbling in all of the books ever written.

Quintessence · Mar 22, 2018

taykair said:
Or be given more value than it deserves.

To do one good thing for another person is of more value than all of the scribbling in all of the books ever written.

Is it? Why do you believe that? Keep in mind the power of story and of word is not just about written books. This that you say right here is a story too.

rocala · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
The power of story and of words should never, ever be underestimated

taykair said:
Or be given more value than it deserves.

You might be surprized to know that most of the world does not have a president Trump or a volunteer fire department. Why is this rant about your local problems in the General Discussion section? It is anything but general to most people.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
Is it? Why do you believe that? Keep in mind the power of story and of word is not just about written books. This that you say right here is a story too.

It may be better to ask me why I would believe the opposite - that reading or writing about an action is more important than the action itself.

Don't misunderstand. I read. And I write. But if I do not do - then what is the point?

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

rocala said:
You might be surprized to know that most of the world does not have a president Trump or a volunteer fire department. Why is this rant about your local problems in the General Discussion section? It is anything but general to most people.

No. The fact there are other people in the world besides Americans does not surprise me.

As for the location of this thread, I apologize if it is in the wrong place (or perhaps the wrong forum altogether). If the mods wish to move it (or delete it) then that's fine. It doesn't matter.

Quintessence · Mar 22, 2018

taykair said:
It may be better to ask me why I would believe the opposite - that reading or writing about an action is more important than the action itself.

Don't misunderstand. I read. And I write. But if I do not do - then what is the point?

I can't answer that for you, or anyone other than myself. If you tell the story "there is no point," then there is no point. If you tell the story "there is a point," then there is a point.

In a way, this gets at the importance of the power of story. What we tell ourselves and what we tell to others really impacts and reflects who we are and how we act. Similarly, the stories from others that we listen to does the same. This thread is an example of that. By listening to some people's stories, you were motivated and inspired to create this topic. Listening to them has commanded your attention and impacted how you see the world and act in the world. That's pretty powerful, I think. If you believe otherwise, you get to craft your own narratives.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
I can't answer that for you, or anyone other than myself. If you tell the story "there is no point," then there is no point. If you tell the story "there is a point," then there is a point.

In a way, this gets at the importance of the power of story. What we tell ourselves and what we tell to others really impacts and reflects who we are and how we act. Similarly, the stories from others that we listen to does the same. This thread is an example of that. By listening to some people's stories, you were motivated and inspired to create this topic. Listening to them has commanded your attention and impacted how you see the world and act in the world. That's pretty powerful, I think. If you believe otherwise, you get to craft your own narratives.

You may not believe me, but I understand what you are saying. I really do. I am neither illiterate nor anti-literate. I have a house that is practically filled to overflowing with books. But I've never witnessed even one of those great works of literature ever jump down from the shelf and feed a starving child.

My only point was that generating online heat with meaningless debate pales in significance when compared to bringing real-world light by actually doing something good for someone. That's all.

Nakosis · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
The power of story and of words should never, ever be underestimated.

There is IMO a difference between telling a story to inspire and telling one to signal your virtues.

Quintessence · Mar 22, 2018

Nakosis said:
There is IMO a difference between telling a story to inspire and telling one to signal your virtues.

That's interesting... how would you describe the difference as you see it?

(I'm not sure I see a difference myself - even if the speaker intends to tell a story to signal their virtues, it seems to me it can and will inspire, yeah?)

Quintessence · Mar 22, 2018

taykair said:
You may not believe me, but I understand what you are saying. I really do. I am neither illiterate nor anti-literate. I have a house that is practically filled to overflowing with books. But I've never witnessed even one of those great works of literature ever jump down from the shelf and feed a starving child.

My only point was that generating online heat with meaningless debate pales in significance when compared to bringing real-world light by actually doing something good for someone. That's all.

There is certainly a problem with the signal-to-noise ratio of discourse. To be honest, I really don't notice this 'warrior' thing you are talking about. Probably because I refuse to use any social media whatsoever.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
That's interesting... how would you describe the difference as you see it?

(I'm not sure I see a difference myself - even if the speaker intends to tell a story to signal their virtues, it seems to me it can and will inspire, yeah?)

It may be that Nakosis was implying that I started this thread in order to signal my virtues. If so, I can put that theory to rest. I'm just as self-centered and lazy as the next guy. I'm well aware that I spend too much time doing... well... things like posting here than I do for others. Mea culpa.

Quintessence said:
There is certainly a problem with the signal-to-noise ratio of discourse. To be honest, I really don't notice this 'warrior' thing you are talking about. Probably because I refuse to use any social media whatsoever.

Look at practically any politically-oriented thread at this forum, and you will see it. (By the way, aren't online forums a form of social media, or is only Facebook worthy of that distinction?)

Nakosis · Mar 22, 2018

Quintessence said:
That's interesting... how would you describe the difference as you see it?

(I'm not sure I see a difference myself - even if the speaker intends to tell a story to signal their virtues, it seems to me it can and will inspire, yeah?)

I think virtue signaling creates a story to fulfill the needs of one's ego by implying one's own virtue via words instead of deeds.

Some folks just let their deeds speak for them.

You can also create a fictional story that can be thought provoking. Not necessarily morally right or wrong, just ideas which allows folks to consider options they've never considered before.

sayak83 · Mar 22, 2018

taykair said:
At times, I feel sad for the Facebook Warriors who fancy themselves as either patriotic militiamen or as members of a resistance movement. Do they really feel that their words, their rants, their online diatribes actually help to secure those goals which they claim to want to attain? Do they ignore the good which can be found in those whom they oppose, and only listen to the heroic music playing in their heads as they "battle against the evil empire"?

What motivates them, I wonder? Do they truly believe that their mud slinging and name calling is somehow making the world a better place in which to live? Does saying "make America great again" (again and again) truly make them great? Or is it merely the last gasp of a dying empire? Does chanting "no justice, no peace" bring about either justice or peace? Or is it just another way of saying "give us what we want or we'll burn the place down"?

Or is it simply the fact that pecking out letters on a keyboard is much easier than volunteering at a local soup kitchen? Is it more ego-rewarding to be applauded by our online comrades for railing against the "evil leftists" or by calling for President Trump's impeachment (or his head on a platter) than it is to help someone living just down the road from us?

I can hear the objections.

"I'm a volunteer at my local fire department," they say, "but I also write letters to the editor in support of the President."

"I help out folks at a local homeless shelter," they say, "but I also compose posts which oppose the President."

And I would say that the first parts of your statements are commendable, but the latter parts only prove that you have time on your hands that is wasted - opportunities which are trashed in favor of receiving "likes" for your latest non-accomplishments.

Forgive me for ranting. I have become sick with what we are becoming. Or have already become.

Don't be on Facebook.

The end.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

sayak83 said:
Don't be on Facebook.

The end.

I'm not. I used the term "Facebook Warriors" in the generic sense.

sayak83 · Mar 22, 2018

taykair said:
I

I'm not. I used the term "Facebook Warriors" in the generic sense.

Well. You are in some social media site or the other where you are encountering the people you lament.

taykair · Mar 22, 2018

sayak83 said:
Well. You are in some social media site or the other where you are encountering the people you lament.

Correct. I am here.

To which, your response should be: "Then why don't you leave?"

It's a fair question. I don't know why. Just plain. old stubbornness, I guess.

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