Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
Trailblazer said: Yes, Bahais reject all of those on that list, except Baha'u'llah, because He was not self-appointed, He was appointed by God.

They ALL say it.

The fact that many people have made the claim to be a Prophet of God does not prove that the claim of Baha’u’llah was false, logically speaking. It is the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization to say that because most were false all were false.

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
Hasty generalization - Wikipedia

If you assume, without any evidence (not having researched the claim of Baha’u’llah) that Baha’u’llah was a false prophet you have based your conclusion on “insufficient evidence,” essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern:

prophet a was a false prophet
prophet b was a false prophet
prophet c was a false prophet
prophet d was a false prophet
Therefore, prophet e (in this case Baha’u’llah) was a false prophet

TransmutingSoul · Mar 18, 2018

CG Didymus said:
Zoroastrian beliefs?

6. Belief in the tradition of prophets. Zoroastrianism is based on the teachings of Zoroaster or Zarathushtra, the first prophet. According to legend God manifested Himself to him in a vision and revealed him the secrets of creation and the religious instructions to be followed by people on earth to pursue the path of righteousness. The teachings of Zoroaster are available to us in the Zend Avesta, the main scripture of Zoroastrians. Followers of Ahura Mazda believe the birth of Zoroaster heralded the beginning the current cycle of creation, which would last for 3000 years. During this period a prophet would appear on earth at the end of each millennium to preserve the teachings and guide the humanity. The third prophet, will be a future son of Zoroaster, whose name would be Shoshyant, who would herald the Judgment Day and the eventual destruction of evil powers in the material world.

What to expect in each religion doesn't line up all that well. Here Zoroaster started the current cycle. Baha'is say Adam? Here it says in 3000 years, at the end of the cycle, evil will be destroyed and there will be a judgement. I have no doubt that you can arrange the beginning of the cycle so that 3000 years ends at 1844. But, it says that a prophet will appear at the end of each 1000 years? So we have Zoroaster, then a 1000 years later who do we have? then 2000 years later who? and at the end, for you to be correct, it has to be Baha'u'llah? So where do Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and the Bab all fit in? Not to mention that some Baha'is say Adam, Noah and Abraham are also Baha'i manifestations.

So what do we look for when there is no consistency?

New ways of looking at the Information.

First determine if Baha'u'llah can be trusted to tell you the Truth.

If you find this is so, look at the subject through His eyes, which is what He has written about all this.

Regards Tony

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Neb said:
We went through with this already or this was Asked and Answered already.

Then why are we still talking about it?

Neb said:
Why can’t you understand this?

I do.

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Neb said:
No one is stopping you if that's what your belief is telling you, but forcing it with other beliefs, like Christianity,

No Baha'is are forcing what we believe with other beliefs.

We have our own beliefs. Too bad that they are the fulfillment of the Bible prophecies, but you will have to take that up with God. Maybe He has a complaint department.

Neb said:
things like these must take placed before the end time.

Too bad the end time has already come.

Too bad you missed it.

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Neb said:
If we apply logic here, can we agree that by means of true or false, that if we can conclude that there is only ONE TRUE CHRIST in Bible, and it’s NOT bahaullah, but the Lord Jesus Christ, the ONLY TRUE Son of God, "the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father" then it means it's TRUE, i.e., there is ONLY ONE Christ,

There is only one Christ in the New Testament, which was Jesus, but that was not the last revelation from God.
Baha'u'llah was the return of the Christ Spirit, as promised by Jesus.

Neb said:
and therefore, bahaullah, claiming to be the Christ is FALSE? I say it’s TRUE, based on the Bible, i.e., The Lord Jesus is the ONLY Christ of God, because Bahaullah was NEVER “in the bosom of the God/Father" nor was he in Bible at all.

The Bible is not the only revelation from God.

Neb said:
Read this verse: “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.” John 1:18

How do you comprehend this verse?

Simple. Jesus made God known... then after that Muhammad and the Bab and Baha'u'llah made God known AGAIN. That is called Progressive Revelation...

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Neb said:
You can accuse one guilty of the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization based on insufficient evidence but based on the bible the evidence is overwhelming or sufficient that Baha’u’llah is or was a false-christ based on the Bible or Matthew 24:5.

Let’s go back to Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Didn’t you say “Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit”? Yes, you did!!

What the Lord Jesus was saying here is the false-christ who would come, like bahaullah, as the "Christ" of God. Read it again, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Obviously, you do not understand what the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization is.

I am not going over that again. You can refer to what I posted above earlier today.

Neb said:
There’s sufficient evidence that Bahaullah was never mentioned in the Bible as the Christ. Therefore, we can ONLY conclude that Bahaullah was really a false-christ. Is this really hard to understand?

Baha’u’llah never claimed to be Christ. He claimed to be the return of the Christ Spirit, the Comforter and the Spirit of truth mentioned in the Bible.

Is this really hard to understand?

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Neb said:
I must argue from the Bible, and there is NO argument, based on the Bible that Bahaullah was a false-christ. What you guys got is nothing but an anecdotal evidence based on mythical stories and not facts.

That is all you have in the NT, mythical stories and no facts. The Baha'i Faith has actual facts that can be verified.

Neb said:
Interacting your rabbit hole fantasy with the Bible, to make it more plausible, is not really a bad idea if you feed it to your own congregation but taking it to a forum like this one and challenged the apostles’ writing with your fantasy to make it more like a legit movement, yeah, what do you think Alice in Wonderland is thinking right now? Ahh, welcome to my humble abode! “Would you like an adventure now, or shall we have our tea first? -Alice

The Bible is the fantasy, apostles' writing means nothing... Jesus never wrote anything... Baha'u'llah got a message directly from God and wrote it in His Own Pen. That is verifiable.

Now I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone. Is there any reason to continue this dialogue?

Trailblazer · Mar 18, 2018

Neb said:
You need to understand this verse before we move on to the next segment. Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

If all these prophets, including Bahaullah, claimed they are the Christ then there is only one conclusion to this and that is, all are false-christ, right?

No, you completely missed the point of what the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization means. In short, it means that just because many false prophets claimed to be the Christ, that does not mean that every prophet who claimed to be the Christ was false. It is a hasty generalization to assume that just because one was false all were false.

Jesus said to beware of false prophets but then He said there were true prophets and we would know them by their fruits. That alone proves that all Prophets are not false.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern

X is true for A.
X is true for B.
Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.

For example, if a person travels through a town for the first time and sees 10 people, all of them children, they may erroneously conclude that there are no adult residents in the town.
Hasty generalization - Wikipedia

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
No, you completely missed the point of what the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization means. In short, it means that just because many false prophets claimed to be the Christ, that does not mean that every prophet who claimed to be the Christ was false. It is a hasty generalization to assume that just because one was false all were false.

You are running away from the subject. You need to focus on the argument. In the Bible, how many Christ do you see or read? ONLY ONE! Read this verse again: “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” - Matthew 24:5

Now, your Fallacy of Hasty Generalization is a non-sequitur or an invalid argument because it says in the Bible “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” - Matthew 24:5 meaning, in the Bible, there is ONLY ONE CHRIST, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ, right? Now, if one comes out and says

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return. From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

So, according to you guys Christ came already in the name of Bahaullah or “Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit”

Trailblazer said:
Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit

Therefore, based on Matthew 24:5 bahaullah was a false-christ, right?

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
Jesus said to beware of false prophets but then He said there were true prophets and we would know them by their fruits. That alone proves that all Prophets are not false.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Yeah, you’re right, it's like saying an apple came from a banana tree or by your teachings “ye shall know them”. Your teachings or doctrines is like “a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit”

The last prophet of God in the Old Testament was John the Baptist. "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." -Matthew 11:13.

John the Baptist represents the Law and the Prophets in the Old Testament - “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,” –Hebrews 1:1 And in the New Testament “but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.” –Hebrews 1:2

No matter how you slice this you won’t find Bahaullah here and that is the TRUTH.

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern

X is true for A.

X is true for B.

Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.

For example, if a person travels through a town for the first time and sees 10 people, all of them children, they may erroneously conclude that there are no adult residents in the town.

Hasty generalization - Wikipedia

You cannot apply this fallacy here because there is ONLY ONE CHRIST in the Bible and if one or A, B, C, or D claims he is/was the Christ, like Bahaullah, then that’s the false-christ.

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
That is all you have in the NT, mythical stories and no facts. The Baha'i Faith has actual facts that can be verified.

The Bible is the fantasy, apostles' writing means nothing... Jesus never wrote anything... Baha'u'llah got a message directly from God and wrote it in His Own Pen. That is verifiable.

Now I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone. Is there any reason to continue this dialogue?

No wonder why you guys are insisting or trying so hard that bahaullah was a descendant of King David of the Bible so you could VERIFY your existence or your fantasies in the real world.

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
Obviously, you do not understand what the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization is. I am not going over that again. You can refer to what I posted above earlier today.

"Fallacy of Hasty Generalization is" an invalid argument.

Trailblazer said:
Baha’u’llah never claimed to be Christ. He claimed to be the return of the Christ Spirit, the Comforter and the Spirit of truth mentioned in the Bible.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return. From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

Trailblazer said:
The Bible is the fantasy, apostles' writing means nothing... Jesus never wrote anything...

Read your own statements: "The Bible is the fantasy, apostles' writing means nothing" but bahaullah is "the Comforter and the Spirit of truth mentioned in the Bible."

You see how you contradict yourself here? Now, who is living in the fantasy world?

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
There is only one Christ in the New Testament, which was Jesus, but that was not the last revelation from God.

How many time I have to say this: baha-ullah, or the glory u llah/ a llah, is a NO NAME god/s of the bahai faith. Meaning this god/s could be anything because it has NO NAME, a John Doe or perhaps a Jane Doe/allat, on the other hand, the God of the Bible has a NAME and that is Jehovah.

For example: “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God/El Almighty/Shaddai [or El Shaddai], but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.” –Exodus 6:3

IOW, the True God of the Bible “appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God/El Almighty/Shaddai” only, i.e., without a “PROPER NAME” yet, but now he would be known by HIS “PROPER NAME” as "Jehovah", just NOT to confuse Him with other gods that the Israelites were accustomed to, i.e, to the Egyptian gods, and for this reason God/Jehovah gave Moses this command, “Thou shalt have no other gods/elohim before me" –Exodus 20:3

So, God/Jehovah gave the Israelites a PROPER NAME so that Moses and the Israelites would know what "I am the LORD" meant. So, every time one of you guys, i.e., the bahai faith, see the word God in the Bible it does NOT mean “ullah/allah/allat” or any other gods but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob based on Exodus 6:3 and that is, Jehovah.

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
Baha'u'llah was the return of the Christ Spirit, as promised by Jesus.

The Lord Jesus DID NOT mention Bahaullah in the Book of John. Is this really hard to understand?

Trailblazer said:
The Bible is not the only revelation from God.

In Christianity, it is the last revelation of God to mankind. You could alter, adulterate, twist, or spin the Bible, any way you want, but the truth will come out and it’s evident in this thread that you guys are the liars, the deceiver.

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
Simple. Jesus made God known... then after that Muhammad and the Bab and Baha'u'llah made God known AGAIN. That is called Progressive Revelation...

Jehovah and allah/ullah/allah are NOT the same God, period. Whatever “Progressive Revelation/Hindsight/Postdiction” you have, you should keep to yourself because NOT all are interested in your fantasy.

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Trailblazer said:
No Baha'is are forcing what we believe with other beliefs.

We have our own beliefs. Too bad that they are the fulfillment of the Bible prophecies,

Trailblazer said:
That is all you have in the NT, mythical stories and no facts. The Bible is the fantasy,

Laws of thought, traditionally, the three fundamental laws of logic:
(1) the law of non-contradiction,
(2) the law of excluded middle (or third), and
(3) the principle of identity.

I think you are guilty of all of them.

Trailblazer said:
but you will have to take that up with God. Maybe He has a complaint department.

Too bad the end time has already come.
Too bad you missed it.

While you still have the time you should reconsider because you don't wanna miss these verses.
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" -1Thessalonians 4:16

"then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -1Thessalonians 4:17

It's very clear that on Christ 2nd coming, Christians will be “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” -1Thessalonians 4:17

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I see translators having translated without the knowledge of what they were translating.

Acts 7:55-56 Shows a True vision;

"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,"

The Father and Son at the right of God.

Regards Tony

I will NOT STOP posting this: When you see the “glory of God” in the bible it does NOT in any way means the “glory of ullah/allah/allat” because the word “ullah/allah/allat” is NOT a “PROPER NAME” but just a translation of the word “god/s” in Arabic. The “PROPER NAME” of the “God” of the Bible is “JEHOVAH” so if you see the “Glory of God” in the Bible it means it’s the “Glory of Jehovah” and NOT the “glory of ulla/allah/allat”

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
It is the way it has always been. God sends his Messenger who Spiritually fulfills the Prophecy in the Holy Books, all the while not to the material expectations of the masses that await. Time sees them arise to their Seat of Glory amongst those that have rejected them.

Baha'u'llah, the Father is the one who is promissed in all Scriptures. Day by day tgis knowledge permeates the heart and mind of man.

I can see that nothing short of a world wide event on a massive scale will now correct the direction we are now heading. The future will not have centralized massive cities as we now build, centers of materialisim.

You will have your yet to be fullfilled material events, but it will not have a visual Christ riding upon visual clouds, as that spiritual event has come to pass in the mid 1800's.

Baha'u'llah has said;

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

Regards Tony

More commentaries from bahaullah

Neb · Mar 19, 2018

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
"...To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father,” the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”;
to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,”
to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn;
to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ);
to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám;
to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna;
to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha...."

Regards Tony

Pure fantasy...down the rabbit hole into a wonderland.

Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

Are you awaiting Christ's return?

Yes

No

Maybe

I'm Fence sitting

Just a popcorn question

Definitly never

He has Come

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