Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

Trailblazer said:

Good thing that Baha’u’llah was written into the book of life then, given Baha’u’llah translates into Glory of God in Arabic….

Speaking of names, when Jesus returns, we know for sure He will not be called “Christ.”

Luke 21:8 “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”

Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Hmmmmmmmmmm………..

Click to expand...

Found this today Trailblazer, I think this is very significant to this thread, it gave me a new Frame of Reference;

"A letter dated 29 November 1937 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer identifies the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy of His return of the coming of the Kingdom of the Father with the worldwide realization of the sovereignty of Bahá'u’lláh:

Now as regards the signs that would herald the advent of the new Manifestation; The Guardian wishes you to read over very carefully Bahá'u’lláh's explanation as recorded in the Íqán". There it is made clear that what is meant by the appearance of the Son of God after the calamitous events preceding His coming is the revelation of His full glory and its recognition and acceptance by the peoples of the world, and not His physical appearance. For Bahá'u’lláh, Whose advent marks the return of the Son in the glory of the Father, has already appeared, and the signs predicted in the Gospel have not yet fully been realized. Their complete fulfillment, however, would mark the beginning of the recognition of His full station by the peoples of the world. Then and only then will His appearance be made completely manifest."

This still allows for a lot of the book of Revelation to still be unfolding in this day, there is not a need to explain all happenings in a spiritual way. For instant this passage can now be seen as very literal and very applicable to the now!;

2 Timothy 3:"People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,"

Regards Tony

Trailblazer said:

Good thing that Baha’u’llah was written into the book of life then, given Baha’u’llah translates into Glory of God in Arabic….


Speaking of names, when Jesus returns, we know for sure He will not be called “Christ.”

Click to expand...

But bahaullah as the christ, right?

Trailblazer said:

Luke 21:8 “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”


Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”


Hmmmmmmmmmm………..

Click to expand...

They are analogous or you have extracted a perfect analogy of what a false-christ is.

What the Lord Jesus was saying here is the false-christ, like bahaullah, who would come as the "Christ" of God. Read it again, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

If you read your own post: “Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit”

Trailblazer said:

If you would just accept that Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit and the Representative of God among men, then you would not need to alter the meaning of what is in the Bible.

Click to expand...

One of the many, who would come as the false-christ is bahaulllah that “shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”
IOW, Bahaullah, as we speak, is one of the false-christ who would come in "Christ's name" and will deceive the many including you and Tony. Do you understand this?

Now, do you still think “that Baha’u’llah was written into the book of life”? NO! Bahaullah is a deceiver, an antichrist. “Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.” -2 John 1:7

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

You have been and still are more than free to Prove the validity of this statement from the Torah, by Showing Specifically and Undoubtedly that Jesus of Nazareth, who then became known as Christ, Son Of God, who was then further called a Trinity, thus being God, was specifically mentioned in this way as the Messiah.

Regards Tony

Click to expand...

Why from the Torah? Do you think bahaullah was even mentioned in the Torah? The burden of proof is on your side so you have to provide the evidence, or twist the word of God, so you can justify your arguments.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

You are correct, I do not see the 'Glory of God' in your replies.


I do see the 'Glory of God' in the Holy Books.


Have a happy life Ned, I wish you well.


Regards Tony

Click to expand...

What holy books? If you read this post or post #497 again then there is NO WAY you could deny the Lord Jesus as God/ADNY/Lord. “The Lord/YHWH said to my Lord/God/ADNY” Psalm 110:1, and here's another one,

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.


Abandon your religion while you still have the time.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

You have been and still are more than free to Prove the validity of this statement from the Torah, by Showing Specifically and Undoubtedly that Jesus of Nazareth, who then became known as Christ, Son Of God, who was then further called a Trinity, thus being God, was specifically mentioned in this way as the Messiah.Regards Tony

Click to expand...

Neb said:

Why from the Torah? Do you think Baha'ullah was even mentioned in the Torah? The burden of proof is on your side so you have to provide the evidence, or twist the word of God, so you can justify your arguments.

Click to expand...

You have shown that your argument against Baha'u'llah is applicable to Jesus the Christ, that in rejecting Baha'u'llah, in turn you reject Christ with the same argument.

We have Shown Baha'u'llah is also in the Torah, as Baha'u'llah translates to 'Glory of God' or 'Glory of the Lord' in many Prophecies that talk about the end of the Age.

You are still welcome to do as requested and I post the request again. I will reword it if you have misunderstood;

You can prove the validity of the argument that you are currently using against Baha'u'llah, by proving Jesus the Christ was clearly mentioned in the Torah.

So From the Torah, you can provide passages that Specifically and Undoubtedly show that Jesus of Nazareth, who then became known as Christ, Son Of God, who was then further called a Trinity, thus being God, was specifically mentioned in this way in the Torah as the Messiah.

If you can not do this, then the argument you are using, can not in all justice, be used to disprove Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

Neb said:

What holy books?

Click to expand...

Baha'u'llah is the One promised to bring about the Kingdom of God on earth, as it is in Heaven, at the end of Ages.

As Such all Prophecy of this day, when peace will come to Humanity, is fulfilled by Baha'u'llah from these sources;

Jewish Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Christian Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Islamic Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Buddhist Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Hindu Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Zoroastrian Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Native American Indian Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

Prophecies on religious unity - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

The evidence is overwhelming.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Found this today Trailblazer, I think this is very significant to this thread, it gave me a new Frame of Reference;

"A letter dated 29 November 1937 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer identifies the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy of His return of the coming of the Kingdom of the Father with the worldwide realization of the sovereignty of Bahá'u’lláh:

Now as regards the signs that would herald the advent of the new Manifestation; The Guardian wishes you to read over very carefully Bahá'u’lláh's explanation as recorded in the Íqán". There it is made clear that what is meant by the appearance of the Son of God after the calamitous events preceding His coming is the revelation of His full glory and its recognition and acceptance by the peoples of the world, and not His physical appearance. For Bahá'u’lláh, Whose advent marks the return of the Son in the glory of the Father, has already appeared, and the signs predicted in the Gospel have not yet fully been realized. Their complete fulfillment, however, would mark the beginning of the recognition of His full station by the peoples of the world. Then and only then will His appearance be made completely manifest."

This still allows for a lot of the book of Revelation to still be unfolding in this day, there is not a need to explain all happenings in a spiritual way. For instant this passage can now be seen as very literal and very applicable to the now!;

2 Timothy 3:"People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,"

Click to expand...

Wow Tony! That is all I can say…

I just saved this quote in a Word doc into several folders for future reference…

I do not think I will live long enough to see this unfold, but hopefully I will be able to view it from the spiritual world…

Meanwhile, I still have lots of Christians I can share it with…

Neb said:

Trailblazer said: If you would just accept that Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit and the Representative of God among men, then you would not need to alter the meaning of what is in the Bible.

One of the many, who would come as the false-christ is bahaulllah that “shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”
IOW, Bahaullah, as we speak, is one of the false-christ who would come in "Christ's name" and will deceive the many including you and Tony. Do you understand this?

Click to expand...

No, I do not understand this. Baha’u’llah did not come in Christ’s name, He came in His own name, Baha’u’llah.

You are the one who has been deceived, by the false prophets in the Church: The False Prophets

Neb said:

Now, do you still think “that Baha’u’llah was written into the book of life”? NO! Bahaullah is a deceiver, an antichrist. “Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.” -2 John 1:7

Click to expand...

The Bible says that the Anti-Christ:

1. Denies that Jesus is the Christ. (1 John 2:22)

2. Denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:23)

3. Denies that Jesus came in the flesh and cleaned us of sin. (1 John 4:2, 3; 1 John 1:6-8; )

4. Is equated with deceivers and linked with false prophets. (1 John 4:1)

5. Is already in the world during the writing of the epistles of John (100 AD). (1 John 4:3)

6. Is a former Christian. (1 John 2:19)

Baha’u’llah did none of these things so He cannot be the antichrist.

On top of all of that, referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah testified that Jesus Christ came in the flesh:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Baha'u'llah is the One promised to bring about the Kingdom of God on earth, as it is in Heaven, at the end of Ages.

As Such all Prophecy of this day, when peace will come to Humanity, is fulfilled by Baha'u'llah from these sources;

Jewish Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Christian Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Islamic Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Buddhist Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Hindu Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Zoroastrian Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage
Native American Indian Prophecies - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

Prophecies on religious unity - Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

The evidence is overwhelming.

Regards Tony

Click to expand...

postdition or hindsight by means of "PROGRESSIVE REVELATION"

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

You have shown that your argument against Baha'u'llah is applicable to Jesus the Christ, that in rejecting Baha'u'llah, in turn you reject Christ with the same argument.

Click to expand...

IOW, if I reject bahaullah I would be rejecting Christ, right?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

We have Shown Baha'u'llah is also in the Torah, as Baha'u'llah translates to 'Glory of God' or 'Glory of the Lord' in many Prophecies that talk about the end of the Age.

Click to expand...

Again, for the 15-20 times. The word “God” in the bible does not translate into “ullah/allah”, A NO NAME GODS, but ONLY to the God of the Bible and that is, Jehovah. Jehovah and allah/ullah are not the same God. So, when you see the phrase “Glory of God” in the Bible it means the “Glory of Jehovah” and NOT the “glory ullah/allah”. Therefore, as your statement above, I would not be rejecting Christ in my previous statement when I rejected Bahaullah for the simple reason that Bahaullah was not even mentioned in the Bible at all. Do you understand this?

Trailblazer said:

No, I do not understand this. Baha’u’llah did not come in Christ’s name, He came in His own name, Baha’u’llah.

Click to expand...

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.


From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

Click to expand...

So, according to you guys Christ came already in the name of Bahaullah or “Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit”

Trailblazer said:

Speaking of names, when Jesus returns, we know for sure He will not be called “Christ.”

Click to expand...

But bahaullah as the spirit of christ, right?

Trailblazer said:

If you would just accept that Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spiri

Click to expand...

You see how confusing your religion is? Let’s go back to Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Didn’t you say “Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit”? Yes, you did!!

What the Lord Jesus was saying here is the false-christ who would come, like bahaullah, as the "Christ" of God. Read it again, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

If you read your own post: “Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit”

Trailblazer said:

Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit

Click to expand...

Then, one of the many who would come as the false-christ is bahaulllah that “shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”

IOW, Bahaullah, as we speak, is one of the false-christ who would come in "Christ's name" and will deceive the many including you and Tony. Do you understand this?

Trailblazer said:

You are the one who has been deceived, by the false prophets in the Church: The False Prophets

The Bible says that the Anti-Christ:

1. Denies that Jesus is the Christ. (1 John 2:22)

2. Denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:23)

3. Denies that Jesus came in the flesh and cleaned us of sin. (1 John 4:2, 3; 1 John 1:6-8; )

4. Is equated with deceivers and linked with false prophets. (1 John 4:1)

5. Is already in the world during the writing of the epistles of John (100 AD). (1 John 4:3)

6. Is a former Christian. (1 John 2:19)

Baha’u’llah did none of these things so He cannot be the antichrist.

On top of all of that, referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah testified that Jesus Christ came in the flesh:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

Click to expand...

"come in the flesh" means "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
Where the "Word" came from? Actually, the "Word" DID NOT come or started from anywhere because, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." -John 1:1 IOW, the "Word" is God and God has no beginning and since you do not believe this, i.e., Christ is God, "who became flesh", then you don't understand the meaning of what "come in the flesh" means in 1 John 4:2, right? So, who is the antichrist now?

Neb said:

postdition or hindsight by means of "PROGRESSIVE REVELATION"

Click to expand...

You are more than welcome to show how Christ fulfilled all Prophecy in the body of Jesus.

If you can not, then Christ in His new name of Baha'u'llah has shown He can.

Regards Tony

Neb said:

IOW, if I reject bahaullah I would be rejecting Christ, right?

Click to expand...

You would be rejecting every One of God's Messengers, that God has ever sent to any people on any planet. Baha'u'llah is the first to show Christ Message is Universal.

Neb said:

Again, for the 15-20 times. The word “God” in the bible does not translate into “ullah/allah”, A NO NAME GODS, but ONLY to the God of the Bible and that is, Jehovah. Jehovah and allah/ullah are not the same God. So, when you see the phrase “Glory of God” in the Bible it means the “Glory of Jehovah” and NOT the “glory ullah/allah”. Therefore, as your statement above, I would not be rejecting Christ in my previous statement when I rejected Bahaullah for the simple reason that Bahaullah was not even mentioned in the Bible at all. Do you understand this?

Click to expand...

Luckily God fulfills Prophecy as it is written not as we would like it to be. God is above all names and the translation of God is not an issue.

It just so happens the Bibles you read have 'Glory of God' and the 'Glory of the Lord'.

Glory of Jehovah
Glory of Allah
Glory of God
Glory of the Lord

All the above say the same thing.

Baha'u'llah is the 'Greatest Name' made manifest on this earth in the promised 'Day of God, 'Day of Allah', Day of Jehovah, or anyway you wish to call our One God of all Names.

GLORY OF 'NAME OF GOD'.

Attachment to a single Name of God, is akin to attachment to one Atom in a Universe of Atoms and stating one atom is better than all the rest that make the whole.

In the end God is outside all that knowledge and above all those names as all this animates from God our Sun and it is but One ray of 100,000,000 rays from the Sun.

Puny are our thoughts about God and His creations.

Regards Tony

Trailblazer said:

The Bible says that the Anti-Christ:

Click to expand...

I would argue that the BIBLE says it much less than "JOHN says it."

Neb said:

IOW, if I reject bahaullah I would be rejecting Christ, right?

Click to expand...

To be fair, I bet they reject all the ones (except the obvious one) on this list:
http://listverse.com/2008/06/08/top-10-self-appointed-messiahs/

Neb said:

But bahaullah as the spirit of christ, right?

Click to expand...

Yes

Neb said:

IOW, Bahaullah, as we speak, is one of the false-christ who would come in "Christ's name" and will deceive the many including you and Tony. Do you understand this?

Click to expand...

Christ tells us to Judge the Prophets and shows us how to do this in the Bible.

Baha'u'llah stands up to those biblical requirements, false Christs would not.

Regards Tony

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

To be fair, I bet they reject all the ones (except the obvious one) on this list:
http://listverse.com/2008/06/08/top-10-self-appointed-messiahs/

Click to expand...

To be fair we must apply the biblical requirements of a True Prophet to find out who is true and who is not.

Regards Tony

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

I would argue that the BIBLE says it much less than "JOHN says it."


To be fair, I bet they reject all the ones (except the obvious one) on this list:
http://listverse.com/2008/06/08/top-10-self-appointed-messiahs/

Click to expand...

The Tests of a True Prophet;

True and False Prophets Matthew 7:15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Baha'u'llah is to be judged by His Fruit and passes this Test

Num. 12:6 "And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, [and] will speak unto him in a dream."

Baha'u'llah received His message in a Vision while in Prison in indescribable conditions.

Jer. 28:9. "The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, [then] shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him."

Baha'u'llah has given True and confirmed Prophecy

1 Jn. 4:2. "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"

Baha'u'llah passes this Test with many writings about Jesus the Christ.

Dan. 10:17. "For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me."

Baha'u'llah when giving Prophecy, showed might and power which silenced all that witnessed this feat. there are many records of this to pursue.

Matthew 17:11 - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Elijah always comes and prepares the way, the Bab (Gate) was this fulfillment.

There are many more.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

The Tests of a True Prophet;

True and False Prophets Matthew 7:15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Baha'u'llah is to be judged by His Fruit and passes this Test

Num. 12:6 "And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, [and] will speak unto him in a dream."

Baha'u'llah received His message in a Vision while in Prison in indescribable conditions.

Jer. 28:9. "The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, [then] shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him."

Baha'u'llah has given True and confirmed Prophecy

1 Jn. 4:2. "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"

Baha'u'llah passes this Test with many writings about Jesus the Christ.

Dan. 10:17. "For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me."

Baha'u'llah when giving Prophecy, showed might and power which silenced all that witnessed this feat. there are many records of this to pursue.

Matthew 17:11 - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Elijah always comes and prepares the way, the Bab (Gate) was this fulfillment.

There are many more.

Regards Tony

Click to expand...

Then there is this... Understanding the Prophets—with a Pure Heart

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

To be fair, I bet they reject all the ones (except the obvious one) on this list:
http://listverse.com/2008/06/08/top-10-self-appointed-messiahs/

Click to expand...

Yes, Bahais reject all of those on that list, except Baha'u'llah, because He was not self-appointed, He was appointed by God.

There is evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah was appointed by God, including ALL the Bible prophecies He fulfilled, but you will not find any evidence that indicates any of the others were appointed by God.

Besides that....

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions:
fruit Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary