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State of the Dead

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
>>F: Nope rather the soul and spirit being the same.<<

The spirit and the soul are used interchangeably in the Bible, but they aren't the same. The spirit is the energy or force that moves and drives the soul while the soul is the personality and life principle (that which gives us life) that distinguishes us from others. It will be part of the spirit and new resurrected body. What makes it difficult to understand is all three are not material. We understand energy and force in nature or the material world, but not in an immaterial sense.

>>F: The male and female were created on the 6th day

As for Adam was created on the day after the 7th day, which could be called the
8th day.<<

This makes no sense as to why Adam and Eve were the representatives of the human race. How did that happen?

Through Adam's blood line would come Christ.
Why do you suppose Eve is called the mother of all living ?
Who's the living ?

Well you have the Spiritual living, knowing who their God is , Who are the children of Eve.
And you have the Spiritual dead, Who deny's the existence of God,
Therefore they are called the Dead.
Note in Matthew 8:22--"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead"
This being the Spiritual dead. They have no Spiritual awareness of God.
If you take the atheists, they would be considered the dead, Spiritual dead or anyone else, who deny's the existence of God.They are Spiritually dead. These are not the children of Eve.
For Eve is called the mother of the living, Which are the Spiritual living. And not the mother of the dead, Spiritual dead.

You have the first male and female being created on the 6th day.
Genesis 1:26,27, --"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness"
Verse 27--"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female, created he them"

Verse 31--"And the evening and the morning were the 6th day"

There you have the first male and female created on the 6th day.

Then God rested the 7th day. Which we call Saturday, Genesis 2:3

Then on the next day, which we call Sunday. God formed man of the dust of the ground. Genesis 2:7.

So you have the first male and female created on the 6th day, which we call Friday, then God rested the 7th day, which we call Saturday, then on the next day, which we call Sunday, God formed Adam from the dust of the ground.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Faithofchristian,
You have most of what the Bible teaches, but there is a couple of things that you have said that shows lack of full understanding of God’s message to mankind.
When the Holy Scriptures speak about death, and resurrection, it is true that spiritual death means that a person has not come into the grace of God, and has not accepted Jesus as the only way to Salvation. Much of this is explained at Ephesians 2:1-22, and Romans 5:1-11, Colossians 1:21-23. These Scriptures explain how a person comes to spiritual life. These ones who die will be resurrected, in what can be called the general resurrection, John 5:28,29, and Acts 24:14,15. These people will live forever on earth, just as Was the purpose of God, from the beginning,Genesis 1:26-31, Isaiah 45:18,19, Psalms 37:29, 115:15,16, Isaiah 14:24,26, 55:11, Revelation 21:1-5.
There is another resurrection, that takes place before the general resurrection, called The First Resurrection, Revelation 20:4-6, 2:11. As you can see in these verses, this group will rule over the earth, with Jesus, from heaven. The reason it says that the Second Death has no authority over them is because they are resurrected to heaven as spirit creatures, and immortal, 1Corinthians 15:51-54, Galatians 6:15, a New Creation, Called The Israel of God, Galatians 6:16.
Just like in any Kingdom there must be a King and subjects. There will be a great crowd that survives the Great Tribulation, and many millions resurrected to earth, Revelation 7:14. Then look back at Revelation 7:3,4, where 144,000 are mentioned. These are the ones of the First Resurrection, that will rule over the earth, with Jesus, The King of The Messianic Kingdom. This is the same group, called the Little Flock, by Jesus, Luke 12:32. The same as recorded at Revelation 20:4-6. Here the Bible mentions The Thousand Year Judgement Day. This will be a period in which all the ones who live through the Great Tribulation, and the resurrected ones will grow to perfection while making the earth a Prardise, in which they will live throughout all eternity.
Agape!!!

In speaking of the resurrection of the dead. They will be taken first, to be taught the truth of God's word, Then after the thousand years have expired then Satan is set lose out of his prison shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth. Revelation 20:7,8.

Why are they called the Dead ?
Because they have no spiritual awareness of God or Christ. The dead deny's the existence of God and Christ, so they are called the Dead.
Take the atheists or anyone else that deny's the existence of God. They are called the dead, Spiritual dead.

When scriptures say, the dead in Christ shall rise first, this being the Spiritual dead shall rise first, to be taken to judgement.
Then we which are alive and remain shall meet the Lord in the Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:16,17.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just like in any Kingdom there must be a King and subjects. There will be a great crowd that survives the Great Tribulation, and many millions resurrected to earth, Revelation 7:14. Then look back at Revelation 7:3,4, where 144,000 are mentioned. These are the ones of the First Resurrection, that will rule over the earth, with Jesus, The King of The Messianic Kingdom. This is the same group, called the Little Flock, by Jesus, Luke 12:32. The same as recorded at Revelation 20:4-6. Here the Bible mentions The Thousand Year Judgement Day. This will be a period in which all the ones who live through the Great Tribulation, and the resurrected ones will grow to perfection while making the earth a Prardise, in which they will live throughout all eternity.
Agape!!!

There is another understanding of 144,000, explained this way;

The personal Four-Letter Name of God is represented by the letters YHVH in Hebrew. The correct pronunciation of the letter Y in Hebrew is "Yode" or "Yud". The letter H is pronounced "Hey" or "Hay", and the letter V is pronounced "Vav". Therefore the letters are correctly pronounced "Yode Hey Vav Hey". The numerical value of the letters of The Name YHVH equals 26 (=8). The numerical value of The Name as it is written out "Yode Hey Vav Hey", is 45 (=9).

Now we can look at the Faiths from God that still have Followers and are practiced still to this 'Day of God', Abraham 1, Krishna 2, Moses 3, Zoroaster 4, Buddha 5, Jesus Christ 6, Muhammad 7, Bab 8 and Baha'u'llah 9.

Baha Arabic meaning "Glory." = 9 - Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God', or "Glory of the Lord".

So the 144,000 is a reference to those that accept the Message of Baha'u'llah from our One God. It is known as the 'Greatest Name'. Baha'u'llah has said the next Messenger will come after a full 1000 years have passed.

The new Heaven and the new earth has come and is being built.

Greatest Name 1.jpg


Regards Tony
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Baha'u'llah has answered your question;

"...He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. He is indeed a captive who hath not recognized the Supreme Redeemer, but hath suffered his soul to be bound, distressed and helpless, in the fetters of his desires. O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead..."

Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah



Yes each day the Dead Bury more Dead. But yes it is the Spiritually Dead that do this. Flesh is not Life.



Baha'u'llah has provided the answer to this as well;

"...Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live."

Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah



Jesus Christ the Son has returned as the Father, life is now found in the Father, rejection of the Father is Death, Baha'u'llah again has supplied your answer;

"..The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty. Turn your faces towards Him, O concourse of the righteous... This is the day whereon the Rock (Peter) crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: 'Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!...' My body longeth for the cross, and Mine head waiteth the thrust of the spear, in the path of the All-Merciful, that the world may be purged from its transgressions...."

Baha'u'llah : The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah



This is the day promised by Christ. Life is now found in the Father. Baha'u'llah has again explained this in great detail, here is but one passage;

"...Such things have come to pass in the days of every Manifestation of God. Even as Jesus said: "Ye must be born again." [John 3:7] Again He saith: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." [John 3:5-6]. The purport of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto "life" and "resurrection" and have entered into the "paradise" of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to "death" and "deprivation," to the "fire" of unbelief, and to the "wrath" of God. In all the scriptures, the books and chronicles, the sentence of death, of fire, of blindness, of want of understanding and hearing, hath been pronounced against those whose lips have tasted not the ethereal cup of true knowledge, and whose hearts have been deprived of the grace of the holy Spirit in their day. Even as it hath been previously recorded: "Hearts have they with which they understand not" [Qur'an 7:178].
.
In another passage of the Gospel it is written: "And it came to pass that on a certain day the father of one of the disciples of Jesus had died. That disciple reporting the death of his father unto Jesus, asked for leave to go and bury him. Whereupon, Jesus, that Essence of Detachment, answered and said: "Let the dead bury their dead." [Luke 9:60]
.
In like manner, two of the people of Kufih went to Ali, the Commander of the Faithful. One owned a house and wished to sell it; the other was to be the purchaser. They had agreed that this transaction should be effected and the contract be written with the knowledge of Ali. He, the exponent of the law of God, addressing the scribe, said: "Write thou: 'A dead man hath bought from another dead man a house. That house is bounded by four limits. One extendeth toward the tomb, the other to the vault of the grave, the third to the Sirat, the fourth to either Paradise or hell.'" Reflect, had these two souls been quickened by the trumpet-call of Ali, had they risen from the grave of error by the power of his love, the judgment of death would certainly not have been pronounced against them.

In every age and century, the purpose of the Prophets of God and their chosen ones hath been no other but to affirm the spiritual significance of the terms "life," "resurrection," and "judgment." If one will ponder but for a while this utterance of Ali in his heart, one will surely discover all mysteries hidden in the terms "grave," "tomb," "sirat," "paradise" and "hell." But oh! how strange and pitiful! Behold, all the people are imprisoned within the tomb of self, and lie buried beneath the nethermost depths of worldly desire! Wert thou to attain to but a dewdrop of the crystal waters of divine knowledge, thou wouldst readily realize that true life is not the life of the flesh but the life of the spirit. For the life of the flesh is common to both men and animals, whereas the life of the spirit is possessed only by the pure in heart who have quaffed from the ocean of faith and partaken of the fruit of certitude. This life knoweth no death, and this existence is crowned by immortality. Even as it hath been said: "He who is a true believer liveth both in this world and in the world to come." If by "life" be meant this earthly life, it is evident that death must needs overtake it.

Baha'u'llah : The Kitab-i-Iqan

Regards Tony

How is a person born of the Spirit of God ?

We find in 1 Peter 1:22,23, being born again of the Spirit of God is by the Word of God.

There's two resurrections,
One of which is the Resurrection of living, and the Resurrection of the dead.

There's nothing in the tomb, grave, except a dead corps,body.

When a person takes their last breath of air, the Spirit which kept the body alive, returns back to God. Thereby leaving behind a dead corps,body, that will soon decay to dust.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
There is another understanding of 144,000, explained this way;

The personal Four-Letter Name of God is represented by the letters YHVH in Hebrew. The correct pronunciation of the letter Y in Hebrew is "Yode" or "Yud". The letter H is pronounced "Hey" or "Hay", and the letter V is pronounced "Vav". Therefore the letters are correctly pronounced "Yode Hey Vav Hey". The numerical value of the letters of The Name YHVH equals 26 (=8). The numerical value of The Name as it is written out "Yode Hey Vav Hey", is 45 (=9).

Now we can look at the Faiths from God that still have Followers and are practiced still to this 'Day of God', Abraham 1, Krishna 2, Moses 3, Zoroaster 4, Buddha 5, Jesus Christ 6, Muhammad 7, Bab 8 and Baha'u'llah 9.

Baha Arabic meaning "Glory." = 9 - Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God', or "Glory of the Lord".

So the 144,000 is a reference to those that accept the Message of Baha'u'llah from our One God. It is known as the 'Greatest Name'. Baha'u'llah has said the next Messenger will come after a full 1000 years have passed.

The new Heaven and the new earth has come and is being built.

View attachment 20696

Regards Tony

Well you got that right, there shall come another messenger, But not a messenger that your expecting to come. That the whole shall wonder after. All except God's elect people will know that he is a false prophet.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How is a person born of the Spirit of God ?

We find in 1 Peter 1:22,23, being born again of the Spirit of God is by the Word of God.

There's two resurrections,
One of which is the Resurrection of living, and the Resurrection of the dead.

There's nothing in the tomb, grave, except a dead corps,body.

When a person takes their last breath of air, the Spirit which kept the body alive, returns back to God. Thereby leaving behind a dead corps,body, that will soon decay to dust.

The Messengers of God are born of the Holy Spirit.

We receive the Spirit only through connecting mind and soul to the Spirit of Faith to be Born again in beleif of 'Christ', all of Gods Messengers.

Yes the body will return to dust.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well you got that right, there shall come another messenger, But not a messenger that your expecting to come. That the whole shall wonder after. All except God's elect people will know that he is a false prophet.

The False prophets have indeed done what was promised.

If you are yet to Judge Baha'u'llah as per the Biblical requirements, then we can do that now if you wish? Off to bed now.

Regards Tony
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The Messengers of God are born of the Holy Spirit.

We receive the Spirit only through connecting mind and soul to the Spirit of Faith to be Born again in beleif of 'Christ', all of Gods Messengers.

Yes the body will return to dust.

Regards Tony

You said the messengers of God are born of the Holy Spirit.

The question is, When were the messengers of God born of the Holy Spirit?
When did this happen ?
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
to love is the will.


36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

to believe isn't and never will be an advocation of idolatry, or anthropolatry.

idolatry is the abomination; which causes desolation. idolatry creates a distortion between self and other as self. love is not a respecter of persons.
Do you think I disagree with this ?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Do you think I disagree with this ?

you asked what god's will is.

as explained it isn't to have faith. it is to have action; which is a verb.

all fruits trees hold the promise of bearing fruit but not all trees bear fruit, or good fruit.

a tree is known by it's fruit and not by it's faith, promise.

12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry.13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.


Luke 3:9
The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
you asked what god's will is.

as explained it isn't to have faith. it is to have action; which is a verb.

all fruits trees hold the promise of bearing fruit but not all trees bear fruit, or good fruit.

a tree is known by it's fruit and not by it's faith, promise.

12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry.13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.


Luke 3:9
The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Gods will is that ALL should be saved. What is the purpose of the fruit, to be fruit as an end in itself ? The fruit, and God and man is to manifest the love of God FOR SALVATION, in the individual, then by that individual by teaching and good deeds to others for salvation. Salvation is the will of God for the individual and collectively for all humanity. Why do you think he looked for fruit on the tree when it was the wrong season for it to have fruit ?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When was Baha'u'llah chosen as a prophet. When did this happen ?

The Bab prepared the way on the evening of May 22nd AD1844, which was the year AH1260 of the Muslim calendar. In 1853 while Baha'u'llah was in Prison as a follower of the Bab, He received the vision of the Message He was to give. It was 21 April 1863 that Baha'u'llah gave the Public deceleration of the Message in the Garden of Ridvan outside Baghdad on the banks of the Tigris river.

This is the record Baha'u'llah has given of the Vision he had while in Prision;

"While engulfed in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden—the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of My Lord—suspended in the air before Me. So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the All-Merciful. Betwixt earth and heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul, and the souls of God’s honoured servants.

Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in heaven and all who are on earth, saying: By God! This is the Best-Beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand. This is the Mystery of God and His Treasure, the Cause of God and His glory unto all who are in the kingdoms of Revelation and of creation, if ye be of them that perceive. This is He Whose Presence is the ardent desire of the denizens of the Realm of eternity, and of them that dwell within the Tabernacle of glory, and yet from His Beauty do ye turn aside." – Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 5-6.

The Message Baha’u’llah Received in the Black Pit

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You said the messengers of God are born of the Holy Spirit.

The question is, When were the messengers of God born of the Holy Spirit?
When did this happen ?

The story of the Birth of Christ was our first Glimpse of this fact. Though born from the womb of their Mother, in reality all the Messengers of God are born of the same Holy Spirit. They are one and all our only connection to God.

This is why Christ said I am the First and I am the Last, the I Am, the Primal Will.

Regards Tony
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The story of the Birth of Christ was our first Glimpse of this fact. Though born from the womb of their Mother, in reality all the Messengers of God are born of the same Holy Spirit. They are one and all our only connection to God.

This is why Christ said I am the First and I am the Last, the I Am, the Primal Will.

Regards Tony

The Messengers and Christ were born by a woman to come into this world.

So what were the messengers before they were born by a woman.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So what were the messengers before they were born by a woman.

I hope you consider the answer.

This link provides all the required details - Tablet of the Universe

This is a Spiritual explanation of Gods Messengers;

"...Thus the suns of the praise of the one true God moved resplendent in a vast, infinite space, capable neither of being defined by limits nor contained within the compass of signs and allusions. All praise be to Him Who was its Author and Creator, Who spread it out, and adorned it with countless lamps and never-fading luminaries: 'None knoweth the hosts of thy Lord save Him' (Qur'an, 74:31). He made the circuits of these luminous divine orbs to be their lofty and celestial spheres; and He made the bodies of these spiritual spheres to be subtle and soft, flowing and liquid, undulating and vibrating, in such manner that these refulgent orbs swim in the circumferences of the spheres, and move in their vast space by the aid of their Creator and Maker, their Ordainer and Fashioner.

Divine and all-encompassing Wisdom hath ordained that motion be an inseparable concomitant of existence, whether inherently or accidentally, spiritually or materially. This movement must be governed by some check or rein, some regulator or director, otherwise order will be disrupted and the spheres and bodies will fall from the heavens. For this reason God brought into being a universal attractive force between these bodies to hold sway over them and govern them, a force deriving from the firm ties, the mighty correspondence and affinity that exist between the realities of these limitless worlds. By the operation of this attractive force those holy and resplendent suns, with their luminous worlds, satellites and planets, circling and orbiting in their heavens, at once exerted attraction and were subject to it, induced motion and were themselves moved, began orbiting and set into orbit other bodies, shone forth and caused others to shine. In this manner they became arranged in a perfectly ordered system, each one a handiwork of consummate fashioning and manifest beauty, each one an enduring creation and a conclusive proof. Glory be to Him Who attracted them, laid firm hold on them, imbued them with effulgence, ordered them and set them in motion; and far from His glory be that which any of his creatures can affirm of Him or attribute to Him....."

Regards Tony
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I hope you consider the answer.

This link provides all the required details - Tablet of the Universe

This is a Spiritual explanation of Gods Messengers;

"...Thus the suns of the praise of the one true God moved resplendent in a vast, infinite space, capable neither of being defined by limits nor contained within the compass of signs and allusions. All praise be to Him Who was its Author and Creator, Who spread it out, and adorned it with countless lamps and never-fading luminaries: 'None knoweth the hosts of thy Lord save Him' (Qur'an, 74:31). He made the circuits of these luminous divine orbs to be their lofty and celestial spheres; and He made the bodies of these spiritual spheres to be subtle and soft, flowing and liquid, undulating and vibrating, in such manner that these refulgent orbs swim in the circumferences of the spheres, and move in their vast space by the aid of their Creator and Maker, their Ordainer and Fashioner.

Divine and all-encompassing Wisdom hath ordained that motion be an inseparable concomitant of existence, whether inherently or accidentally, spiritually or materially. This movement must be governed by some check or rein, some regulator or director, otherwise order will be disrupted and the spheres and bodies will fall from the heavens. For this reason God brought into being a universal attractive force between these bodies to hold sway over them and govern them, a force deriving from the firm ties, the mighty correspondence and affinity that exist between the realities of these limitless worlds. By the operation of this attractive force those holy and resplendent suns, with their luminous worlds, satellites and planets, circling and orbiting in their heavens, at once exerted attraction and were subject to it, induced motion and were themselves moved, began orbiting and set into orbit other bodies, shone forth and caused others to shine. In this manner they became arranged in a perfectly ordered system, each one a handiwork of consummate fashioning and manifest beauty, each one an enduring creation and a conclusive proof. Glory be to Him Who attracted them, laid firm hold on them, imbued them with effulgence, ordered them and set them in motion; and far from His glory be that which any of his creatures can affirm of Him or attribute to Him....."

Regards Tony


What I am asking, where did the Messengers come from, before they were born by a woman ?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The posted quote showed that is was from their Spiritual existence. They come forth from and of the Holy Spirit.

Manifestation of God - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

I read what you given
Manifestation of God

But what I gather, is that the Messengers are chosen after they are born by a woman.
All the Prophets, Messengers of God were with God before they came here to be born by a woman.

As God has said of Jeremiah, Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you and before you came forth out of the womb I Sanctified you and I ordained you a prophet unto the nation's"
Jeremiah 1:5.

From what I read, that Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, were Minor Prophets. This is not true, They are of the Holy Prophets of God. As was John the Baptist was the end of the Holy Prophet's of God, that there will not be no more Holy Prophet's sent. For John the Baptist is the end of the Holy Prophet's, that no more Holy Prophet's will be sent.

The Minor Prophets are, Amos, Zachariah, Malachi, are of the Minor Prophets.
 
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